Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

This thread made history. This is the first time I've ever heard that a guy has regressed in his rookie season.

Quote:There's no way we get Harbaugh... ha, so, you might want to let that one go

Dont want harbaugh hell bring gabbert. :teehee:

Quote:I'm going to call Bull Stuff on this one.  Doubtful you called it in advance and NO WAY you have any "buddies".

 

Those were customers waiting for their order.

Fantastic. 

I have commented much on our current losing. 

 

I have a thread commenting on a couple of aspects of this here...

 

http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...om-losing/

 

See also http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top.../?p=317790

 

As to some of the other stuff I have not hit on previously...

 

I don't see that much "regression" in Bortles' performance from preseason.  First off, the overall sample is very limited, and the sample from preseason is even smaller.  Considering the level of play if much faster from preseason to regular season, considering teams actually game plan for the opponent in regular season, considering the coverages and blitzes are far more complex in the regular season, and the widely disparate game situations between the limited looks he got in preseason vs. the most pass situations he found himself in the regular season games, the differences in INTs and deep passes from pre to regular season are easily explainable.  He's thrown some bad passes on three of those picks, but overall he's played reasonably well.

 

Secondly, as I pointed out in still another thread, Rich Kotite got off to a better start record wise than either Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson.  Would you or anyone argue that Kotite was a better coach than either of them due to those early records?

 

More to come

Quote:The last time I was allowed to post we had just lost the Eagles game. Well, since then, we've won zero games...


Hate to say it folks, but I think what we are seeing is the culmination of a head coach that is in over his head.


We are not getting any better and the 4-4 record to end last season seems to be merely the result of happenstance of playing equally bad (or dead) teams.


We were at the bottom of the league in offense and defense last year, and we are right there again this season, in the total rankings. In the big picture, nothing is improving.


As I look back, things that I remember posting about being concerning with Bradley's initial hire have pretty much come to roost - first and foremost - the Coordinator hires. Both Fisch and Babich were seen as poor hires by me (and a few others) when they happened and neither has done anything to prove those initial fears wrong.


Guess what though - bad assistant coaching hires falls on the head coach. That is part of his responsibility.


The 2 Coordinators are likely not the only bad hires on this staff, however. It seems to be filled with subpar hires all around it. With only a few standout decent to good hires. I'f say at this point after 21 games, the only assistants that I'd point to that seem to have been good hires would be the WR coach, the DL coach, and maybe the QB coach. The rest all don't seem to be doing a good job in getting their prospective player groups improving over time. I understand that not every player is going to be a "pro bowler" but solid position coaches do at least get their group to show some improvement over time regardless of talent ceiling.


I think the poor assistant coach hires can be partially linked to the fact that Bradley had zero head coaching experience coming into this job. There obviously a LOT of other aspects of Bradley's coaching (where he seems to be failing) that can also be attributed to his lack of HC experience as well. - such as poor clock management.


Through 21 Games, Bradley is now 4-17. The only other successful head coach over the last 25 years that I can remember starting out this bad was Jimmy Johnson of Dallas who started out at 4-22. But at least with his team, they indeed were showing improvement in their 2nd year. Also, while their offense was still struggling in the 2nd year, at least their defense was showing clear signs of ascension. They only gave up around 300 points for that entire season after giving up close to 400 the previous year.


The Jags offense and defense overall continues to be bad. Bottom of the league bad. Last week seemed to be more the result of playing safe defense as opposed to actual improvement. When they needed a stop in the 4th Q on Pitts last drive - they couldn't do it. Didn't Pitt keep the ball for what seemed like the final 7 and a half minutes of the game to run out the clock???



I'm very close to the point where I advise the owner to pretty much pull the plug on the head coach at seasons end.



The most important thing that this staff MUST not mess up is the QB- Bortles, and IMO, it appears they are doing just that.


Look at Bortles play in preseason, and then the 3 games this season. He's clearly regressing. His YPA went from consistently in the 9's or above in all preseason games as well as the 2nd half of the Indy game, to 7.8 two weeks ago to Gabbert-like 5.3 last week. You can't tell me that Bortles this past Sunday is resembling ANYTHING like the gunslinger that we saw in his first 5 appearances.


IMO, why this is happening is because the coaching staff is overreacting to the INT's he's throwing and shortening the pass play routes which isn't doing anything but hurting him.


That pick 6 against the Steelers last week was on Fisch just as much as it was on Blake. What do you expect to happen when every pass play you call is a shorter route???? Eventually the defense is going to jump one of them and you get what happened.


They threw one stinking deep pass attempt last week for the ENTIRE game and it was picked off, so then Fisch totally abandoned it. Thats not how you help a young QB. They should be trying about one deep pass every quarter, just to keep the defense honest. Otherwise, all you are doing is helping makie the defenses life easier and hurting the development of your own QB. I remember Andy Reid would take a deep shot downfield with McNabb just about every 8-10 attempts (on average) - to keep the defense from bunching up and playing the game in a 10-15 yard box.



If things don't improve drastically, and soon, I am hoping Khan is investigating the availability of a proven winner like Jim Harbaugh at seasons end. Harbaugh has head coaching experience, has been susccessful and seems to get the most out of his QB's. (Alex Smith) and even Kap.

Throwing poo at the wall again I see.


Gus said pretty much the exact opposite. They want him to make better decisions but don't want to put fear in his game and neuter his aggressiveness.


FF to 3:48

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://prod.video.jaguars.clubs.nfl.com//JAC/videos/dct/video_audio/2014/10-October/20141006-guspresser-1200k.mp4'>http://prod.video.jaguars.clubs.nfl.com//JAC/videos/dct/video_audio/2014/10-October/20141006-guspresser-1200k.mp4</a>

Quote:Honestly we need a veteran WR to replace Brown.  We have Shorts, but he's hardly a vet.  Even having Marcedes Lewis back would probably help some.  

 

Shorts is in the last year of his contract. How does that make him not a veteran? He is our oldest wide receiver right now.

 

Lewis is not very good anymore. I think Harbor deserves to keep the starting job.

Quote:Same WR's he played with the first 5 games. 

 

JUst more conservative routes the last game. 

 

 

Blakes play vs Pitt is the result of conservative playcalling, not personnel IMO. 

 

 

The Jags helped make life easier for Pitt's defense by keeping almost every pass attempt into a 10-15 yard box. Pitt was like Thank you very much. 

 

Even if you don't complete them, you gotta take the occasional 4-5 shots per game downfield. 

 

This isnt the preseason, teams gameplan and the rookies have not adjusted to it just yet.

 

They really dont have anyone who can stretch the field.  Teams watch film and adjust and if Hurns is the guy they are relying on to constantly stretch the field then I would throw it short too.  Right now the Jags are getting crushed after half time because teams are adjusting to tem and the Jags are adjusting themselves.  To me that is on the coaching but also the personal.

Quote:Aside from the Redskins game, we've faced some pretty stiff competition.  And in the Redskins game we were still being hampered by Chad Henne.  And we were also being hampered by having a very young team.  


 

TMD:

 

Yes, the competition was tough, and yes Chad was QB the first 3 games...

 

32nd overall and 31st overall for the rankings of Offense/ defense, respectively is inexcusable at this point, however. Were now 21 games in. We've been at/ around those rankings Bradley's whole tenure. 


I agree that Fisch and Babich could both be parts of the problem.  I think that Gus Bradley is a guy who is willing to give too many opportunities at times.  I think we should have made some moves at the end of last season.  His lack of experience (and the Jags not being an attractive spot to land for coaches) can't be held against him too much.  I don't think there's many coaches who would want to come here pre-Bortles.  Availability matters, and so does the amount of talent on the team.


 

TMD response:

 

Theres little doubt at this point that those 2 are very big parts of the problem. The "only" problem though? Nah, I think theres others on this coaching staff who are equally as bad. The rookie head coach hired an overall piss poor collective staff minus a few good ones like the WR coach and DL coach. 

 

I agree that not having the QB hurts potential coaching suitors....So we can't afford to ruin Bortles to the point that the next coach also won't come here. 

 

 


Jimmy Johnson didn't take over what was essentially an expansion team.  If you look at the lack of talent on the team, it explains the lack of wins very well.  The team should be showing improvement, but I don't think we can say if any improvement is being made at this point.  It's a very young team, with few draft picks on the Defensive side of the ball.

 

 

TMD response: 

 

Dude, that 1989 Cowboys team that Johnson took over was pretty much expansion level. He had Irvin (who had yet to develop by then, and Herschel)

 

The 1995 Jags roster was more talented.  

 

Bortles isn't regressing.  His stats don't look quite as good, but that's in part due to facing tougher defenses, not having a running game (which keeps the Defense honest), and playcalling, as well as the players we have.  


 

TMD response: 

 

 

When I say regressing I mean in his play style. He seems to be going from a QB who would attack all parts of the field at any time, to a QB whose either becoming too conservative to try those deeper throws or is being given shorter routes too much by the play calls coming in from Fisch. I'm guessing the coaching staff is overreacting to the INT's Bortles threw in the first 2 games (and the lone deep pass in the Steelers game). Guess what? Peyton threw a ton of INT's his first year. They didn't neuter him over them. Let Bortles throw them, and let Bortles continue to attack ALL parts of the field. Doing so only helps force the defense to play honest and not bunch up into the 10-15 yard area since they know thats where the ball is going.  

Why would a proven winner come here, when we don't give coaches time to bring the talent in, and blame them for the problems?  We don't want to become the Oakland Raiders.  I think Bradley goes on the hot seat at the start of next season.  


 

 

TMD response: 

 

The Bortles of his first 5 appearances would be enough for a coach worth his salt to come here. 

 

A good coach knows that Bortles utilized the right way will be a stud QB in this league. 

 

 

9.4 YPA his first 5 NFL games/ appearances. 

 

9.3 YPA his final year in college. 

 

 

Bortles talent is there. 

 

 

But if they neuter him like in the last 6 Quarters of play calling, they could ruin it. 

It's as predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.  TMD whining about a coach.  Shocker. 

Quote:This thread made history. This is the first time I've ever heard that a guy has regressed in his rookie season.

In one game....

Quote:I remember Jimmy Johnson indeed did change his OC after 2 years and then hired Turner in 1991, and that offense took off from there. 

 

However, the defensive issues are more concerning, given that Bradley is a defensive background head coach. I do agree that Babich is horrible, (and needs to go) but you'd think that Bradley's presence would at least make this defense better than close to dead last in ranking for 2 years straight. 

Maybe the presence of better players is the answer, not the head coach.

Quote:Shorts is in the last year of his contract. How does that make him not a veteran? He is our oldest wide receiver right now.

 

Lewis is not very good anymore. I think Harbor deserves to keep the starting job.

I said he's HARDLY a vet.  He doesn't have 32 starts under his belt yet.  Obviously he'd be defined as a vet.  But we need another WR who's actually started for 2 full seasons worth of games on this roster.  

Quote:Maybe the presence of better players is the answer, not the head coach.

You're not following the usual logic applied by the dog whimperer. 

 

It's always the coach's fault until he decides otherwise. 

Quote:TMD response: 

 

The Bortles of his first 5 appearances would be enough for a coach worth his salt to come here. 

 

A good coach knows that Bortles utilized the right way will be a stud QB in this league. 

 

 

9.4 YPA his first 5 NFL games/ appearances. 

 

9.3 YPA his final year in college. 

 

 

Bortles talent is there. 

 

 

But if they neuter him like in the last 6 Quarters of play calling, they could ruin it. 

Did it ever dawn on you that the reason there are so many short passes is that the deep ones are covered well by good defenses??

 

 

I mean he isnt playing our defense. :teehee:

Quote:In one game....

 

Even more special. I don't think we'll ever see a player regress so fast again.

Quote:This thread made history. This is the first time I've ever heard that a guy has regressed in his rookie season.

The diva has to make up for lost time. 

Quote:Did it ever dawn on you that the reason there are so many short passes is that the deep ones are covered well by good defenses??

Impossible.  Our receivers are coached by Jerry Sullivan.  They're clearly running wide open on every play. 

Quote:TMD response:


The Bortles of his first 5 appearances would be enough for a coach worth his salt to come here.


A good coach knows that Bortles utilized the right way will be a stud QB in this league.



9.4 YPA his first 5 NFL games/ appearances.


9.3 YPA his final year in college.



Bortles talent is there.



But if they neuter him like in the last 6 Quarters of play calling, they could ruin it.

There isn't any "neutering" going on. More like realistic NFL expectations, considering there isn't a NFL QB above 8.75 YPA currently.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt'>http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt</a>


Time to stop setting up unattainable goals.

Quote:I said he's HARDLY a vet.  He doesn't have 32 starts under his belt yet.  Obviously he'd be defined as a vet.  But we need another WR who's actually started for 2 full seasons worth of games on this roster.  

 

Never mind the injuries. Every player gets hurt at some point. The problem is Shorts does not have as much talent as other receivers in the NFL who don't want to come to Jacksonville.