(06-17-2023, 01:25 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I only see two viable options. We either play at TIAA Bank during the renovations or we go to Gainesville. I can't see us effectively building a stadium in Jacksonville so we can play there for two years. There are high expectations in the NFL. You are going to need appropriate locker rooms, facilities, etc. The baseball park and Daytona speedway were not built for football. Unless UNF plans to start a football team, it doesn't make sense to do a huge expansion there for two years. I also think it's lame to be playing in a stadium of 40,000 which seems to be the plan with these facilities. As for other options, I don't see playing the entire season in London as one of them. Even Orlando is too far. If we don't play at TIAA Bank Field, Gainesville is the best option. It's a stadium that was actually built for football and is larger than our current one, holding over 88,000 fans. If we're hosting a playoff game, I would rather it in front of 88,000 fans than 40,000. It's a 1.5 hour drive from the current stadium, but I suspect many of our fans live south of the stadium instead of north. As such, the drive may be even less for many. While a one and a half hour drive isn't ideal, I see Ben Hill Griffin Stadium as clearly the best of the other options.
Distilled down to its purest form, this is the most amenable arrangement. While the hometown fan in me would like to see the games and the facility upgrade money stay in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is there is no local site which can fill the billet.
Daytona is attractive mostly because of the straight travel shot. However, Gainesville offers much better facilities and the travel time
shouldn't be that much longer. How U.S. 301 handles the heavy gameday traffic is a question. The Starke bypass alleviates the biggest choke point between Duval and the SR 24 split.
Edit: Additionally, this would go hand in glove with the gesture of goodwill Khan is presenting to UF with his real estate donation for their downtown campus.
(06-17-2023, 01:57 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-17-2023, 01:25 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I only see two viable options. We either play at TIAA Bank during the renovations or we go to Gainesville. I can't see us effectively building a stadium in Jacksonville so we can play there for two years. There are high expectations in the NFL. You are going to need appropriate locker rooms, facilities, etc. The baseball park and Daytona speedway were not built for football. Unless UNF plans to start a football team, it doesn't make sense to do a huge expansion there for two years. I also think it's lame to be playing in a stadium of 40,000 which seems to be the plan with these facilities. As for other options, I don't see playing the entire season in London as one of them. Even Orlando is too far. If we don't play at TIAA Bank Field, Gainesville is the best option. It's a stadium that was actually built for football and is larger than our current one, holding over 88,000 fans. If we're hosting a playoff game, I would rather it in front of 88,000 fans than 40,000. It's a 1.5 hour drive from the current stadium, but I suspect many of our fans live south of the stadium instead of north. As such, the drive may be even less for many. While a one and a half hour drive isn't ideal, I see Ben Hill Griffin Stadium as clearly the best of the other options.
Distilled down to its purest form, this is the most amenable arrangement. While the hometown fan in me would like to see the games and the facility upgrade money stay in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is there is no local site which can fill the billet.
Daytona is attractive mostly because of the straight travel shot. However, Gainesville offers much better facilities and the travel time shouldn't be that much longer. How U.S. 301 handles the heavy gameday traffic is a question. The Starke bypass alleviates the biggest choke point between Duval and the SR 24 split.
Edit: Additionally, this would go hand in glove with the gesture of goodwill Khan is presenting to UF with his real estate donation for their downtown campus.
Question: Is the speed trap still there on 3-1 on the way to Gainesville?
(06-17-2023, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (06-17-2023, 01:57 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Distilled down to its purest form, this is the most amenable arrangement. While the hometown fan in me would like to see the games and the facility upgrade money stay in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is there is no local site which can fill the billet.
Daytona is attractive mostly because of the straight travel shot. However, Gainesville offers much better facilities and the travel time shouldn't be that much longer. How U.S. 301 handles the heavy gameday traffic is a question. The Starke bypass alleviates the biggest choke point between Duval and the SR 24 split.
Edit: Additionally, this would go hand in glove with the gesture of goodwill Khan is presenting to UF with his real estate donation for their downtown campus.
Question: Is the speed trap still there on 3-1 on the way to Gainesville?
I ride my motorcycle through there on occasion and I can say the Lawtey popo does like to park a cruiser at the city limits monitoring speeds. However, I wouldn't call it a speed trap. There are plenty of signs beforehand warning of speed reductions and strict enforcement. The bypass takes Starke out of the picture, and I don't remember seeing much enforcement in Waldo.
(06-15-2023, 11:18 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]3 games in Gainesville, 3 games in Orlando and a game a piece in London and Daytona for two years. Not only do we become Florida’s team, but we are the team for the UK and Ireland.
That’s not a half bad idea. The fact that the Jags figure to be in the playoffs for the next handful of years would enable the team to greatly expand the fan base. Of course it would suck for Duval fans who would miss out on those games but if that’s what it takes to be viable long term, so be it.
There are not any "good" options imo. Gainesville would be the best option to me, orlando then daytona.
This would have been no big deal 2 or 3 years ago when we completly stunk. The timing is kind of awful.
(06-17-2023, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (06-17-2023, 01:57 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Distilled down to its purest form, this is the most amenable arrangement. While the hometown fan in me would like to see the games and the facility upgrade money stay in Jacksonville, the fact of the matter is there is no local site which can fill the billet.
Daytona is attractive mostly because of the straight travel shot. However, Gainesville offers much better facilities and the travel time shouldn't be that much longer. How U.S. 301 handles the heavy gameday traffic is a question. The Starke bypass alleviates the biggest choke point between Duval and the SR 24 split.
Edit: Additionally, this would go hand in glove with the gesture of goodwill Khan is presenting to UF with his real estate donation for their downtown campus.
Question: Is the speed trap still there on 3-1 on the way to Gainesville?
The waldo PD actually lost a big lawsuit over that and was investigated by the state - many years ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida...ice-force/
(06-18-2023, 10:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-17-2023, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Question: Is the speed trap still there on 3-1 on the way to Gainesville?
The waldo PD actually lost a big lawsuit over that and was investigated by the state - many years ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida...ice-force/
Which explains the signage when approaching the city limits, but it is still common to see a cop sitting there.
Edit: Sorry, I got Lawtey and Waldo confused.
Does anyone remember the story of Hampton, which sits about a mile off 301?
Speed trap is dirtiest little town in America | CNN
...Somebody got the idea to snap up an easement along both sides of County Road 18 and a 1,260-foot stretch of U.S. 301. Because of the annexation, the bird’s eye view of Hampton resembles a lollipop on a stick. Or, depending on your point of view, a fist with a raised middle finger. Most outsiders take the second view.
Hampton set up its speed trap, just like its neighbors, Waldo and Lawtey. Since Hampton has no schools, homes or businesses along 301, traffic safety really wasn’t the issue. The focus always was on revenue – and state and county officials say that’s where the city went wrong. It’s the crack that allowed corruption to creep in and take hold.
The key players in this chapter of the saga are the county sheriff and Hampton’s chief of police....
...Hampton cops were a fixture out on U.S. 301. They sat on lawn chairs, pointing radar guns at unsuspecting motorists. They hid behind recycling bins. As more and more money came in, they idled in slick SUVs, trolled the median strips in riot gear and toted state-of-the-art firepower. Locals gave one the nickname “Rambo” because he slung an AR-15 rifle across his chest.
All to write tickets...
(06-17-2023, 12:26 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2023, 04:59 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]I just find the hosting the games outside of Jacksonville thing odd. I honestly cannot remember any other North American major 4 sports team who has done that. If they were at a different facility it was still one in their many location/city. The further distance I can even remember is the NY Islanders who had matches at MSG And Barclay.
I mean the other consideration is that the other owners have to agree to anything the Jags do. And playing games in Gainesville, Daytona, Orlando or elsewhere could be a threat to Tampa Bay's or Miami's fanbase.
I just think the the offering of the 2 year plan was announced, to put into context how hard it would be to not do a full 4 year renovation plan because that is what they actually expect to be approved.
Also, I know someone was like they want to get into the big events sooner. I mean most of those events are yearly. They will still be there in 4 years. And it is too late even with the 2 year plan to be done for the new 12 team College Football Playoff, and the 2026 World Cup locations were already announced.
Bears played 1 season in Champaign. It's a little over 2 hours away.
Orlando is a little farther away, Daytona is a lot closer. The Bears were terrible that season and had a bunch of injuries and they were very good the season before. Routine is important and ensuring you have a NFL level field and facility are important. The Jags are risking messing with the play of the team.
I'm not sure how they can't build the stadium while still playing if they work around the clock for 6 months. Then switch to building the outside of the stadium stuff the other 6 months.
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Gotcha I wasn't aware the Bears played that season so far away from Chicago. I thought it as closer.
Having said that 20 years was a long time ago for the NFL to agree to similar situation; 2 years is a bigger ask instead of just 1 for NFL owners to be okay with, and I could still see the Tampa Bay Buccaneers claim Gainesville and the areas are in or too close to their their market territory and balk at the Jaguars intruding into it.
(06-17-2023, 06:50 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-15-2023, 11:18 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]3 games in Gainesville, 3 games in Orlando and a game a piece in London and Daytona for two years. Not only do we become Florida’s team, but we are the team for the UK and Ireland.
That’s not a half bad idea. The fact that the Jags figure to be in the playoffs for the next handful of years would enable the team to greatly expand the fan base. Of course it would suck for Duval fans who would miss out on those games but if that’s what it takes to be viable long term, so be it.
So we're going to upgrade 3 facilities for 2 seasons? I agree about expanding the fan base, but I doubt Orlando will make a habit of attending Jags games post-renovation, unless they live east of Altamonte Springs.
(06-18-2023, 10:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-18-2023, 10:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The waldo PD actually lost a big lawsuit over that and was investigated by the state - many years ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida...ice-force/
Which explains the signage when approaching the city limits, but it is still common to see a cop sitting there.
Edit: Sorry, I got Lawtey and Waldo confused.
Does anyone remember the story of Hampton, which sits about a mile off 301?
Speed trap is dirtiest little town in America | CNN
...Somebody got the idea to snap up an easement along both sides of County Road 18 and a 1,260-foot stretch of U.S. 301. Because of the annexation, the bird’s eye view of Hampton resembles a lollipop on a stick. Or, depending on your point of view, a fist with a raised middle finger. Most outsiders take the second view.
Hampton set up its speed trap, just like its neighbors, Waldo and Lawtey. Since Hampton has no schools, homes or businesses along 301, traffic safety really wasn’t the issue. The focus always was on revenue – and state and county officials say that’s where the city went wrong. It’s the crack that allowed corruption to creep in and take hold.
The key players in this chapter of the saga are the county sheriff and Hampton’s chief of police....
...Hampton cops were a fixture out on U.S. 301. They sat on lawn chairs, pointing radar guns at unsuspecting motorists. They hid behind recycling bins. As more and more money came in, they idled in slick SUVs, trolled the median strips in riot gear and toted state-of-the-art firepower. Locals gave one the nickname “Rambo” because he slung an AR-15 rifle across his chest.
All to write tickets...
It's still the most [BLEEP] strip of highway I've ever seen, signage or not. The whole thing is designed to entrap you even with all the signage. 55-45-35-55-35-45 up and down in a matter of a couple miles is ridiculous.
(06-19-2023, 01:28 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (06-17-2023, 06:50 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]That’s not a half bad idea. The fact that the Jags figure to be in the playoffs for the next handful of years would enable the team to greatly expand the fan base. Of course it would suck for Duval fans who would miss out on those games but if that’s what it takes to be viable long term, so be it.
So we're going to upgrade 3 facilities for 2 seasons? I agree about expanding the fan base, but I doubt Orlando will make a habit of attending Jags games post-renovation, unless they live east of Altamonte Springs.
You’re thinking of this wrong. Why should the Jags pay for any renovations in potential host cities? Make it a competition to host the Jags as a local attraction. Come see the NFL Super Bowl contenders play in a stadium near you! The more competition between potential host cities/locations for Jags games the better.
The cities should be jumping through hoops to host the Jags not the other way around, lol.
(06-18-2023, 10:49 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (06-18-2023, 10:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The waldo PD actually lost a big lawsuit over that and was investigated by the state - many years ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida...ice-force/
Which explains the signage when approaching the city limits, but it is still common to see a cop sitting there.
Edit: Sorry, I got Lawtey and Waldo confused.
Does anyone remember the story of Hampton, which sits about a mile off 301?
Speed trap is dirtiest little town in America | CNN
...Somebody got the idea to snap up an easement along both sides of County Road 18 and a 1,260-foot stretch of U.S. 301. Because of the annexation, the bird’s eye view of Hampton resembles a lollipop on a stick. Or, depending on your point of view, a fist with a raised middle finger. Most outsiders take the second view.
Hampton set up its speed trap, just like its neighbors, Waldo and Lawtey. Since Hampton has no schools, homes or businesses along 301, traffic safety really wasn’t the issue. The focus always was on revenue – and state and county officials say that’s where the city went wrong. It’s the crack that allowed corruption to creep in and take hold.
The key players in this chapter of the saga are the county sheriff and Hampton’s chief of police....
...Hampton cops were a fixture out on U.S. 301. They sat on lawn chairs, pointing radar guns at unsuspecting motorists. They hid behind recycling bins. As more and more money came in, they idled in slick SUVs, trolled the median strips in riot gear and toted state-of-the-art firepower. Locals gave one the nickname “Rambo” because he slung an AR-15 rifle across his chest.
All to write tickets...
Most of my family lives south of Ocala so I have been traveling 301 fairly often for a few decades.
I believe the state passed a law limiting state funding for towns that earn over a certain amount of their revenue from tickets. I think that legislation passed because of what Hampton did. I don't recall ever seeing anyone pulled over in Hampton, at least not in a very long time. I think that legislation threw a wrench in their plans.
Waldo used to be bad, but they have built a few of those supersized gas stations over the last decade or so and I think they don't want to dissuade people from stopping there. I think they now prefer to make their revenue on sales tax than tickets because I haven't seen anyone pulled over there in years and rarely ever see a police car.
Lawtey is still a trap. I still see people pulled over there regularly. Rarely have I gone through there and not at least see their cop car in position to catch someone.
(06-19-2023, 02:09 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-19-2023, 01:28 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]So we're going to upgrade 3 facilities for 2 seasons? I agree about expanding the fan base, but I doubt Orlando will make a habit of attending Jags games post-renovation, unless they live east of Altamonte Springs.
You’re thinking of this wrong. Why should the Jags pay for any renovations in potential host cities? Make it a competition to host the Jags as a local attraction. Come see the NFL Super Bowl contenders play in a stadium near you! The more competition between potential host cities/locations for Jags games the better.
The cities should be jumping through hoops to host the Jags not the other way around, lol.
I'm presuming heavy sarcasm here. Either that, or Vikings and Bears went brain dead when they paid Univ of Minn and Univ of Illinois to play in thier stadiums.
A nice tradeoff would be for the Jags to play 2 seasons at UCF in exchange for the Orlando Magic and Orlando City Soccer team to play a few games here in Jacksonville. Let's say the Magic play 6 games (3 sets of back to back games) and Orlando City plays 2 matches here at the new stadium that will be built for our Jacksonville USL soccer team set to start in 2025.
It won't happen due to different ownerships and lack of incentive for them to come up to Jax but it would be nice.
I have driven to Gainesville 3x within the last 2 weeks. It's about as terrible as a 90 minute drive can be. I dont know what the best option is but I know that drive is miserable with all of the speed traps.
Everyone has his opinion on what time frame 2 or 4 years. The 2 year proponents have an opinion on where to play while construction is ongoing. I was listening to 1010 and the below option was floated today by Mark Woods in the Times Union.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/...355246007/
I like this as it keeps the Jags here in Jacksonville. It also keeps all the project money here in Duval and not improving other areas' facilities with our tax dollars. They are looking at 100 to120 million to go to any of the current options. The travel costs for the team have to be a pretty price as well. Combine that and this should be able to be made to work. I'll not repeat everything they said on air I am sure you can get that from their website.
One thing they did bring up is no matter where they play away from here some fool will come up with Orlando, Daytona, London or Gainesville Jaguars or something like that. What if they got hot and won a Super Bowl? Would they make (insert city X) Jaguar Superbowl Champions? Of course they would remind us here in Duval of that for the rest of eternity.
Another thing they brought up is NO city has ever been ask to provide 800+ million for an NFL stadium. Buffalo just kicked in 250mill with the state kicking in 600? We don't have that option. My opinion is they have the options to play here for about the same or less costs as moving out of Duval. Will they do it?
I am curios of what the cost would be to build on the South Bank. Move the school board, continue the north bank revitalisation and build a new stadium over there on that mostly undeveloped land. We get to keep the Jags in town, get a jump start on revitalising both banks at once and build a thriving downtown entertainment district on both sides of the river with water taxi’s AND a reimagined People Mover that actually carries people. You know the south bank will develop on it’s own as soon as the project is announced.
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