Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-20-2023, 11:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The reality of this situation right now is that there are indeed many residents opposed to it based on the notion of taxpayer dollars footing the bill.

Which makes sense.

But we haven't even gotten wind of the earliest proposals on how the city would gather funding and how much would actually come from local taxpayers.

The cart is so far out in front of the horse in these conversations it's ridiculous.

Folks need to see what the city actually negotiates with Khan and the NFL, then hear them out on where they will source the funds.

I'd wager taxes passed on to tourists are going to be a major component of the funding, just as they have been for past renovations. What if a 2 billion dollar project ends up costing the local taxpayers only 300 million over a drawn out period of time?  Opinions will differ.

There are SO many ways this deal can get chopped up. Folks need to relax.

Agreed.  The information available now is close to zero...lol  How can any poll be accurate?  All we know is it will cost a lot and they want to play elsewhere for 2 years.  Not sure I can paint a worse senerio if I tried.

A team with a winning record would greatly improve the chances of a spending plan being passed. Jacksonville taxpayers who don’t follow football know only one thing about the Jaguars: they are a perennial bottom feeder which draws derisive laughs and comments anywhere they go. While I believe they are myopic for not seeing how an NFL team brings wealth and notoriety to a city, I can’t blame them for not supporting it because the notoriety they experience is almost all negative. No one in their right mind would invest with a failing business, and that is exactly how they see it.

Winning solves all.

(09-20-2023, 11:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The reality of this situation right now is that there are indeed many residents opposed to it based on the notion of taxpayer dollars footing the bill.

Which makes sense.

But we haven't even gotten wind of the earliest proposals on how the city would gather funding and how much would actually come from local taxpayers.

The cart is so far out in front of the horse in these conversations it's ridiculous.

Folks need to see what the city actually negotiates with Khan and the NFL, then hear them out on where they will source the funds.

I'd wager taxes passed on to tourists are going to be a major component of the funding, just as they have been for past renovations. What if a 2 billion dollar project ends up costing the local taxpayers only 300 million over a drawn out period of time?  Opinions will differ.

There are SO many ways this deal can get chopped up. Folks need to relax.

LOL.  That's not what we do on this message board!

(09-20-2023, 11:27 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-20-2023, 11:22 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The reality of this situation right now is that there are indeed many residents opposed to it based on the notion of taxpayer dollars footing the bill.

Which makes sense.

But we haven't even gotten wind of the earliest proposals on how the city would gather funding and how much would actually come from local taxpayers.

The cart is so far out in front of the horse in these conversations it's ridiculous.

Folks need to see what the city actually negotiates with Khan and the NFL, then hear them out on where they will source the funds.

I'd wager taxes passed on to tourists are going to be a major component of the funding, just as they have been for past renovations. What if a 2 billion dollar project ends up costing the local taxpayers only 300 million over a drawn out period of time?  Opinions will differ.

There are SO many ways this deal can get chopped up. Folks need to relax.

Agreed.  The information available now is close to zero...lol  How can any poll be accurate?  All we know is it will cost a lot and they want to play elsewhere for 2 years.  Not sure I can paint a worse senerio if I tried.

That's the issue though. They screwed up in the marketing of the deal. They threw out a huge number. Then they say the team has to leave for 2 years. Then they add an entertainment district that they want some money for but Khan has ownership.

They needed to come with funding sources identified. The entertainment district alone could have covered a lot of the money with revenue sharing if the city covers the move upfront instead of covering the stadium. If you split everything 50/50, I'm sure the numbers will be a lot more manageable when the revenue is added in. Then sell ownership to Khan after the fact for the entertainment district after they recover costs if they want.

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Per PFT, Mark Lamping all but threatened the team would leave without a deal. Hope that was out of context

(09-21-2023, 10:36 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Per PFT, Mark Lamping all but threatened the team would leave without a deal. Hope that was out of context

I don’t think that’s a big secret and it’s not really a threat per se, it’s a statement of fact. NFL teams have historically moved for one reason, new stadiums. It wouldn’t happen for a few years (end of current lease) but it would be inevitable without a stadium deal.

(09-21-2023, 10:36 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Per PFT, Mark Lamping all but threatened the team would leave without a deal. Hope that was out of context

Mike Florio has been pushing the "Jags to London" scenario for quite a while.  What Lamping said is simply the truth.  To keep our team in Jacksonville, we need to have a new stadium or a major renovation, and it has to be partially funded by the city.  

What Lamping was responding to was a survey, with a question like, "Do you think the city should pay a billion dollars for the Jaguars to have a new stadium?"  A great majority of respondents said no.  Lamping said perhaps they should also have asked the question, "Do you want to keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville?"  Which Florio labeled a threat.  Maybe it was.  Who cares?

(09-22-2023, 06:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2023, 10:36 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Per PFT, Mark Lamping all but threatened the team would leave without a deal. Hope that was out of context

Mike Florio has been pushing the "Jags to London" scenario for quite a while.  What Lamping said is simply the truth.  To keep our team in Jacksonville, we need to have a new stadium or a major renovation, and it has to be partially funded by the city.  

What Lamping was responding to was a survey, with a question like, "Do you think the city should pay a billion dollars for the Jaguars to have a new stadium?"  A great majority of respondents said no.  Lamping said perhaps they should also have asked the question, "Do you want to keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville?"  Which Florio labeled a threat.  Maybe it was.  Who cares?

it's all rhetoric and posturing at this point anyway and will be until we have numbers to consider.  Another strong playoff appearance, especially to the conference championship (and, dare I say it, beyond) will help sway public sentiment.

(09-21-2023, 09:32 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-20-2023, 11:27 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed.  The information available now is close to zero...lol  How can any poll be accurate?  All we know is it will cost a lot and they want to play elsewhere for 2 years.  Not sure I can paint a worse senerio if I tried.

That's the issue though. They screwed up in the marketing of the deal. They threw out a huge number. Then they say the team has to leave for 2 years. Then they add an entertainment district that they want some money for but Khan has ownership.

They needed to come with funding sources identified. The entertainment district alone could have covered a lot of the money with revenue sharing if the city covers the move upfront instead of covering the stadium. If you split everything 50/50, I'm sure the numbers will be a lot more manageable when the revenue is added in. Then sell ownership to Khan after the fact for the entertainment district after they recover costs if they want.

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No one marketed a "deal"

They floated a concept that would appease the league, the fans, and the owners. 

Now they have to get the city and the taxpayers on board. 

No one knows what the entertainment district money can do for both parties as it hasn't even been negotiated yet. 
They announced the start of a negotiation a few days ago and carved out a whole year to negotiate. 

Folks should chill with all the assumptions.

(09-22-2023, 06:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-21-2023, 10:36 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Per PFT, Mark Lamping all but threatened the team would leave without a deal. Hope that was out of context

Mike Florio has been pushing the "Jags to London" scenario for quite a while.  What Lamping said is simply the truth.  To keep our team in Jacksonville, we need to have a new stadium or a major renovation, and it has to be partially funded by the city.  

What Lamping was responding to was a survey, with a question like, "Do you think the city should pay a billion dollars for the Jaguars to have a new stadium?"  A great majority of respondents said no.  Lamping said perhaps they should also have asked the question, "Do you want to keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville?"  Which Florio labeled a threat.  Maybe it was.  Who cares?

Dan Hicken on 1010 came up with a good analogy of that to illustrate what a leading question it was. 

He said, 'What if you asked these people if they no longer wanted to pay their mortgage. All would have answered with an emphatic "Yes". Now, what if they had asked if they wanted to no longer pay their mortgage BUT they would lose their homes?'  The answers would have changed dramatically. 

Yeah, this UNF "poll" is nothing but garbage to stir up sentiments and get their name out there.

The question was phrased to produce the answer wanted.....simple as that.
Bogus survey 

(09-22-2023, 11:12 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-22-2023, 06:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Florio has been pushing the "Jags to London" scenario for quite a while.  What Lamping said is simply the truth.  To keep our team in Jacksonville, we need to have a new stadium or a major renovation, and it has to be partially funded by the city.  

What Lamping was responding to was a survey, with a question like, "Do you think the city should pay a billion dollars for the Jaguars to have a new stadium?"  A great majority of respondents said no.  Lamping said perhaps they should also have asked the question, "Do you want to keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville?"  Which Florio labeled a threat.  Maybe it was.  Who cares?

Dan Hicken on 1010 came up with a good analogy of that to illustrate what a leading question it was. 

He said, 'What if you asked these people if they no longer wanted to pay their mortgage. All would have answered with an emphatic "Yes". Now, what if they had asked if they wanted to no longer pay their mortgage BUT they would lose their homes?'  The answers would have changed dramatically. 

Yeah, this UNF "poll" is nothing but garbage to stir up sentiments and get their name out there.

(09-23-2023, 07:39 AM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]The question was phrased to produce the answer wanted.....simple as that.
Bogus survey 

Exactly correct.  

I live in Nassau County, so I don't think I get a vote in this.  But I just would hate to think that the residents in Jacksonville would be so short sighted to let the Jaguars leave the city, especially when it's clear that the franchise as really turned the corner.  Khan, who I used to be a major critic of, has shown that he's a really good owner.  He's finally got a good team in place that will keep the Jaguars relevant for at least 15 years, and now we want to pull the plug?  

It's just so short sighted.  It's frustrating to see people not understand that, while it kinda sucks that we taxpayers have to put up some investment into our city, the resulting taxes benefits the city in the long run.  This city needs to move into the 20th century, much less the 21st...  Backwards thinking has kept this city from really becoming a special place to live.

There’s definitely a generational lock on this city that keeps it from moving forward. Someone said it was “boomers”, which may be correct, but the fact of the matter is this city is slow to move on opportunities. The good news is that grip is slipping. I think Jacksonville will be an entirely different city in twenty years.

Many disagreed with some of his takes, but Vic was definitely right that the Jags had the potential to transform Jax and in fact, that’s what the NFL was counting on when they “upset” expectations and awarded us the franchise over St Louis.

So now that the franchise is finally On its way to fulfilling that expectation, the city needs to recognize just how brutal it would be to lose what it’s doing for it. I hope it doesn’t come to that. It would also reward those smug bastards who have been saying for years Jax isn’t deserving and will move.

(09-07-2023, 04:33 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2023, 03:34 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I still think it's going to be Gainesville.  It's a large stadium that was actually built for football.  Any renovations made to it would remain useful after the Jags leave.  In these makeshift stadiums, much of the money would go to things that would either be torn down or sit around with little use when the Jags are done.  Daytona would also be unavailable for home playoff games which means that we would likely be playing them in Tampa or Atlanta.  That's lame.  Gainesville makes the most sense.

Gainesville has a timeline to do their own renovations and Jacksonville isn’t included.

Can you provide a link to this timeline?  I haven't seen one.  Have they even hired an architect yet?

I've also seen no mention of the Gators moving their games to a different stadium.  If renovations are being done during the off-season, I don't see how that would impact the Jaguars playing there.  If anything, a stadium renovation could be a plus.  If some of those renovations can be done timely, it benefits the Jaguars.  It's also a common interest between both sides which might result in synergy.  Perhaps the city of Jacksonville or the Jaguars loans UF some money in order to fast track renovations, etc.

These talks are going to come to a screeching hault if they start losing at home again.

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Home losses pile up

EDIT:

Holy [BLEEP], I sounded like a little [BLEEP]. I'm deleting this comment out of sheer embarrassment. I apologize to anyone that had to the garbage I had written.

Stadium negotiations.

Jaguars: This is what we want.



The city:

Yeah. How about this?