(03-07-2024, 10:04 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2024, 09:42 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think CB is a massive need. And cap-wise nearly everyone in that room is on rookie or low-dollar contracts.
Outside of Ham, what significant resources do we have thrown at the DL?
Is WR a massive need? Yes, we currently have not re-signed a 1000 yard receiver, but seems to be a prevailing view that there are a plethora of good receivers available in this darft. Between Engram, Kirk, Zay and Etienne, I think the passing game is fine.
Maybe I'm just more chill than Amp.
They're all still massive needs which is why you see everyone mock has the Jags taking a CB, WR, OL or DT.
CB- as of now, Campbell is the only starting CB with real experience. Montaric Brown played ok but is still very unproven.
DL- Foley, RRH, Smoot, Chaisson, Travon (who actually is good), Jay Tufele, Jordan Smith.... And yet the Jags still struggle with consistent pressure.
WR- Zay is currently the only starting outside WR on this team with experience and he's a WR3. Kirk is a vertical slot and is very good but he isn't an outside WR.
IOL- no LG at the moment, horrific center, aged and declining RG, Overpaid LT who is a PED away from a year suspension and a very good RT in Anton
Baalke isn't good and appears to never have a vision. He patches up all his mistakes with money and hasn't accumulated building blocks through draft picks (which is what ALL great teams do). Who are the true building blocks he has drafted? Trevor, Anton, Travon. Not sure you can definitively add Campbell, Lloyd, Antonio, or Cisco to that mix. I don't have any faith in Baalke to build a championship level roster which is what you need if you want to compete with the Ravens, Chiefs, Bengals, Bills..... Which is the end goal right?
That's certainly the end-goal for the die-hard fans on this Board and those who have seen this team fail miserably for the last decade and a half. One has to wonder if it is the goal of our owner, however. It is a fair question to ask if he is satisfied with 9-8 seasons and making a ton of money on this franchise. How much more evidence does he need that the general manager has been a failure and is holding this team back? My guess is that he would have already fired top executives with his motor vehicle component company if they were failing like Baalke.
(03-07-2024, 09:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2024, 08:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just saying, constructing a roster involves choices. You can't have it all. I'd rather allocate the money we would have spent on Ridley to the offensive line.
In regards to your answer #1 above, it sounds like you are saying we should give up on our offensive line because we have tried and failed to improve it in the past. Is that what you're saying?
The issue is the GM.
All the problems with the roster have been by his design. He has botched the Oline, DLine, linebacker situation (drafting Muma and Ventrell Miller?), WR room…. He also is the actual worst GM when it comes to drafting in rounds 4-7. That’s not even a debate. He’s the actual worst GM in the league.
Gimme Caldwell back.
https://twitter.com/hashtaguars/status/1...915L-t18Xg
Some of those late round picks might be a tad early on passing judgement on and the 1st round, even throwing out Lawrence and Walker as #1 overalls, has shown more consistent hits than we saw in the prior 19 years when Coughlin left. We knocked it out of the park with Ramsey and Josh Allen. Marcedes was a good pick for where he was picked at the end of the 1st round. Everything else over that span was either meh or outright busts. Still early on some of the 1sts under Baalke as well, but Etienne in hindsight appears to have been a good pick for where he was taken. Harrison appears to be a good pick for where he was taken. Lloyd maybe not, but I think we'll have a more definitive answer on that midway through this season.
Be careful what you wish for is all. We might get back to a ratio of 1.5 hits in the 1st round every 10 years and that is a recipe for bottom of the league performance though Lawrence should mask that to some extent.
Even if you just focus on Caldwell, what was he here for? 8 years? 2 good 1st round picks in 8 years? 25% hit rate in the first round? Hard pass. Needs to be more like 75% or better. You have to consistently hit with your 1st round picks. The further into the draft you get, the more crapshootier it gets.
(03-07-2024, 11:26 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2024, 09:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The issue is the GM.
All the problems with the roster have been by his design. He has botched the Oline, DLine, linebacker situation (drafting Muma and Ventrell Miller?), WR room…. He also is the actual worst GM when it comes to drafting in rounds 4-7. That’s not even a debate. He’s the actual worst GM in the league.
Gimme Caldwell back.
https://twitter.com/hashtaguars/status/1...915L-t18Xg
Some of those late round picks might be a tad early on passing judgement on and the 1st round, even throwing out Lawrence and Walker as #1 overalls, has shown more consistent hits than we saw in the prior 19 years when Coughlin left. We knocked it out of the park with Ramsey and Josh Allen. Marcedes was a good pick for where he was picked at the end of the 1st round. Everything else over that span was either meh or outright busts. Still early on some of the 1sts under Baalke as well, but Etienne in hindsight appears to have been a good pick for where he was taken. Harrison appears to be a good pick for where he was taken. Lloyd maybe not, but I think we'll have a more definitive answer on that midway through this season.
Be careful what you wish for is all. We might get back to a ratio of 1.5 hits in the 1st round every 10 years and that is a recipe for bottom of the league performance though Lawrence should mask that to some extent.
Even if you just focus on Caldwell, what was he here for? 8 years? 2 good 1st round picks in 8 years? 25% hit rate in the first round? Hard pass. Needs to be more like 75% or better. You have to consistently hit with your 1st round picks. The further into the draft you get, the more crapshootier it gets.
If only Caldwell had Lawrence..
(03-07-2024, 08:31 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-07-2024, 07:59 AM)wassy04 Wrote: [ -> ]Re-signing Ridley didn't make sense anyway due to age. If they'd got the Allen deal done then tagged him for another year fine.
However, we have a lot of resource tied up in receivers (that hasn't really paid much dividends)
Now is 100% the time to be drafting one, ideally with pick 17 and probably another one too. You only want to pay one WR and that is currently Kirk. Plus Engram paid too. This is the year with a stacked class meaning potentially a few get pushed lower than they would in other years. It just makes so much sense, it's bound to happen right?
Ok. If resigning Ridley didn't make sense anyway due to age, why waste the 3rd RD investment for a one year rental to begin with? It's not like the man was going to go from 29 years old to 35 years old in one off season.
Also, yes, it's a deep class, we're not heavily tied up though in the receiving group cap wise. Kirk has the highest contract on the books, Zay is less than $5M on the year and could technically still be cut, that leaves Agnew, who may or may not be back, his salary is relatively inexpensive for what he does and then you have a 6th RD pick from last year, an undrafted guy in Cooks and another undrafted guy in Tim Jones.
They'll be looking at a WR more than likely in FA anyway because they have no choice really. They're depleted without Ridley being guaranteed to return now and you're also looking at Kirk, Jones & Agnew returning from various injuries. However, expecting Baalke to take a WR with the 17th pick is wishful thinking in my opinion.
It just doesn't seem like he's going to do that. Not historically and not currently. I see him going defense there and it's probably going to be a player we're either really excited about as a fanbase or ho hum about as a fanbase.
For example, we would probably like Quinyon Mitchell or Cooper DeJean, he'll take Nate Wiggins or Terrion Arnold instead. We'll probably like Brian Thomas Jr. or Adonai Mitchell, he'll take Laiatu Latu or Jared Verse instead. It's just something you have to kind of expect out of him and this front office in my opinion.
Well if Ridley had crushed it then it would've made more sense but yes it was flawed. We did get a potential top WR playing on a cheap contract for a year. Also, the tag this year would've made the most sense but that wasn't possible as they didn't get Allen done sadly.
We've got Engram tied in to good money too as a pass catcher plus a high pick in Strange. It would make sense to go big this year and reset the group cost wise and use the investments in FA on other more accessible positions. Given Ridley is the best available WR on the market and the drop off is quite big too I'd suggest that also makes it an issue.
I do agree I doubt they'll do something sensible but you never know.
Obviously can only put the salary cap in certain areas, I don't think many teams pay two WRs and the ones that do haven't had loads of success. We can get ahead of the Kirk contract, draft a receiver in round 1 then next year we'll have the option to cut him and find someone in FA or extend or whatever but will have much more options.
What's the ranking in terms of positions to draft? QB, Edge, Tackle then WR (followed by corner). So makes sense to target one of the big positions in a historically deep class. Plus and I have absolutely no statistics to back this up but early round WRs seem to have a lot better hit rate than CB.
I personally wanted to retain Ridley simply because of what we gave up to get him via. FA. He's now the top FA WR on the market to which several teams will bid to overpay for his services upward from 22-25 Mill depending on how needy they are at the position.
On the other hand we already have WRs on our roster that could mirror his 2023 efforts if they were fed like Ridley was fed. ALOT of times he ran the wrong route(s) which hurt the offensive outcome.
All-n-All, it's better for the Jags to allow him to walk while filling that spot w/someone else.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
Man, I really hate to sound doom and gloom, but, I doubt this team is making it back to the play off's after the conclusion of the 2024 season. I just don't have any confidence nor do I believe in this coaching staff and front office at the moment.
The most troubling aspect to me, is that, you heard the coach saying "Our best five lineman didn't start together until the final game of the season, you need continuity" so, so far, the solution is to... run the same five lineman back? With said durability concerns and challenges?
I don't know guys. I just don't know. Feel like this little rollercoaster of momentum this team had in 2022 and stalled out at the top of the track in 2023 is fixing to slowly start falling backwards instead of pushing forward in the right direction.
Just a really, really bad feeling. Early season prediction, and, you can call me a doomsayer, or, a fool, doesn't matter. Just putting it out there. I think this team will be lucky to win six games in 2024. Hear me now, believe me later. Fixing to be a long off season and an even longer year.
Sorry folks.
(03-08-2024, 07:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I really hate to sound doom and gloom, but, I doubt this team is making it back to the play off's after the conclusion of the 2024 season. I just don't have any confidence nor do I believe in this coaching staff and front office at the moment.
The most troubling aspect to me, is that, you heard the coach saying "Our best five lineman didn't start together until the final game of the season, you need continuity" so, so far, the solution is to... run the same five lineman back? With said durability concerns and challenges?
I don't know guys. I just don't know. Feel like this little rollercoaster of momentum this team had in 2022 and stalled out at the top of the track in 2023 is fixing to slowly start falling backwards instead of pushing forward in the right direction.
Just a really, really bad feeling. Early season prediction, and, you can call me a doomsayer, or, a fool, doesn't matter. Just putting it out there. I think this team will be lucky to win six games in 2024. Hear me now, believe me later. Fixing to be a long off season and an even longer year.
Sorry folks.
We all have our own respected opinions BUT the highlighted statement in my opinion is what truly hurt our Jaguars down the stretch. OL injuries cost us a playoff birth for 2023. Repairing such an issue is already in place and hopefully the OL will have Much Better health in 2024.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(03-08-2024, 08:20 AM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 07:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I really hate to sound doom and gloom, but, I doubt this team is making it back to the play off's after the conclusion of the 2024 season. I just don't have any confidence nor do I believe in this coaching staff and front office at the moment.
The most troubling aspect to me, is that, you heard the coach saying "Our best five lineman didn't start together until the final game of the season, you need continuity" so, so far, the solution is to... run the same five lineman back? With said durability concerns and challenges?
I don't know guys. I just don't know. Feel like this little rollercoaster of momentum this team had in 2022 and stalled out at the top of the track in 2023 is fixing to slowly start falling backwards instead of pushing forward in the right direction.
Just a really, really bad feeling. Early season prediction, and, you can call me a doomsayer, or, a fool, doesn't matter. Just putting it out there. I think this team will be lucky to win six games in 2024. Hear me now, believe me later. Fixing to be a long off season and an even longer year.
Sorry folks.
We all have our own respected opinions BUT the highlighted statement in my opinion is what truly hurt our Jaguars down the stretch. OL injuries cost us a playoff birth for 2023. Repairing such an issue is already in place and hopefully the OL will have Much Better health in 2024.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
I can live with Cleveland and Scherff playing. It's the whole situation in the Center of it all. Fortner has been the most durable, yet, the most disappointing player out of that line-up.
Failing to upgrade that position between now and April is criminal to me. Robinson and Little at LT are still concerning. You're bringing back Anton Harrison who fought through a shoulder injury all year, hopefully he holds up.
You're really relying on Cooper Hodges, another guy that you took in the 7th RD last year and also off of IR to help out. They're going to need to do something on the backend with this group.
You cannot convince me otherwise. Even if you replaced Fortner, you still need viable, competent and ready-to-go NOW players to fill in when the inevitable happens to somebody in this current group for the third or fourth straight year in a row.
We need stronger interior players that can start or push the starters during practice all week. One slip up? One major hit to Lawrence and it has everybody's buttholes puckering in fear like we saw MULTIPLE times last year? To the bench you must go. And it's on Baalke and Pederson to find the guys ready to go when that happens.
Because as it stands right now? It's going to happen...
(03-08-2024, 08:20 AM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 07:57 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I really hate to sound doom and gloom, but, I doubt this team is making it back to the play off's after the conclusion of the 2024 season. I just don't have any confidence nor do I believe in this coaching staff and front office at the moment.
The most troubling aspect to me, is that, you heard the coach saying "Our best five lineman didn't start together until the final game of the season, you need continuity" so, so far, the solution is to... run the same five lineman back? With said durability concerns and challenges?
I don't know guys. I just don't know. Feel like this little rollercoaster of momentum this team had in 2022 and stalled out at the top of the track in 2023 is fixing to slowly start falling backwards instead of pushing forward in the right direction.
Just a really, really bad feeling. Early season prediction, and, you can call me a doomsayer, or, a fool, doesn't matter. Just putting it out there. I think this team will be lucky to win six games in 2024. Hear me now, believe me later. Fixing to be a long off season and an even longer year.
Sorry folks.
We all have our own respected opinions BUT the highlighted statement in my opinion is what truly hurt our Jaguars down the stretch. OL injuries cost us a playoff birth for 2023. Repairing such an issue is already in place and hopefully the OL will have Much Better health in 2024.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
only indirectly.
Little playing hurt let Hendricksen get through to Trevor. Once Trevor was hurt, the momentum completely reversed.
A lot on the board are unhappy about recent moves, saying it doesn't improve our situation. To bring it back on topic, I say the same about tagging or bidding for Ridley - doing so greatly hampers our ability to execute a long-term plan to keep Trevor upright and slinging.
Catch 22 in the worst way.
I mentioned this a couple days ago but the Broncos look to be trading Sutton or Jeudy or both.
If Ridley walks, I’m throwing a late 3rd or 4th to the Broncos for Sutton. He’s a big body receiver which is something this team seriously lacks.
I’m also going to release Zay and sign Gallup.
(03-08-2024, 08:26 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 08:20 AM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]We all have our own respected opinions BUT the highlighted statement in my opinion is what truly hurt our Jaguars down the stretch. OL injuries cost us a playoff birth for 2023. Repairing such an issue is already in place and hopefully the OL will have Much Better health in 2024.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
I can live with Cleveland and Scherff playing. It's the whole situation in the Center of it all. Fortner has been the most durable, yet, the most disappointing player out of that line-up.
Failing to upgrade that position between now and April is criminal to me. Robinson and Little at LT are still concerning. You're bringing back Anton Harrison who fought through a shoulder injury all year, hopefully he holds up.
You're really relying on Cooper Hodges, another guy that you took in the 7th RD last year and also off of IR to help out. They're going to need to do something on the backend with this group.
You cannot convince me otherwise. Even if you replaced Fortner, you still need viable, competent and ready-to-go NOW players to fill in when the inevitable happens to somebody in this current group for the third or fourth straight year in a row.
We need stronger interior players that can start or push the starters during practice all week. One slip up? One major hit to Lawrence and it has everybody's buttholes puckering in fear like we saw MULTIPLE times last year? To the bench you must go. And it's on Baalke and Pederson to find the guys ready to go when that happens.
Because as it stands right now? It's going to happen...
I Concur to ALL of the above and hopefully we'll achieve such goals.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
(03-08-2024, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I mentioned this a couple days ago but the Broncos look to be trading Sutton or Jeudy or both.
If Ridley walks, I’m throwing a late 3rd or 4th to the Broncos for Sutton. He’s a big body receiver which is something this team seriously lacks.
I’m also going to release Zay and sign Gallup.
Why? You're talking about essentially the same, if not less productive, receiver. Being from out here I see way more Cowboys football than I care to, and he just disappears for games at a time.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...llMi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...neZa00.htm
(03-08-2024, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I mentioned this a couple days ago but the Broncos look to be trading Sutton or Jeudy or both.
If Ridley walks, I’m throwing a late 3rd or 4th to the Broncos for Sutton. He’s a big body receiver which is something this team seriously lacks.
I’m also going to release Zay and sign Gallup.
I would make that deal for Sutton anyway, he's a really good player and would be great in this offense.
I'd rather have jeudy than sutton. Still young and I think there is some untapped potential remaining.
(03-08-2024, 12:17 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd rather have jeudy than sutton. Still young and I think there is some untapped potential remaining.
He's a different kind of player, I'd rather have the big body to add rather than another slot-ish one.
(03-08-2024, 11:19 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I mentioned this a couple days ago but the Broncos look to be trading Sutton or Jeudy or both.
If Ridley walks, I’m throwing a late 3rd or 4th to the Broncos for Sutton. He’s a big body receiver which is something this team seriously lacks.
I’m also going to release Zay and sign Gallup.
Why? You're talking about essentially the same, if not less productive, receiver. Being from out here I see way more Cowboys football than I care to, and he just disappears for games at a time.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...llMi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...neZa00.htm
Yeah I don't understand why you'd want rid of Zay, he's not that expensive and has a great rapport with Trevor, seems an ideal WR3. Unless it's the injuries? (In which case Gallup is not your man!)
Let Calvin go!
1. He’s not a spring chicken.
2. Save our second round pick.
3. Let him sign big dollars elsewhere and use it on other needs.
4. We may get a comp pick when he signs said big dollar contract, depending on how aggressive we are this year.
5. Draft is loaded.
6. Keep Zay, he was really good when healthy.
7. He got lost and confused way too much.
8. Drops were a problem.
(03-08-2024, 07:28 PM)Jags32250 Wrote: [ -> ]Let Calvin go!
1. He’s not a spring chicken.
2. Save our second round pick.
3. Let him sign big dollars elsewhere and use it on other needs.
4. We may get a comp pick when he signs said big dollar contract, depending on how aggressive we are this year.
5. Draft is loaded.
6. Keep Zay, he was really good when healthy.
7. He got lost and confused way too much.
8. Drops were a problem.
All good reasons, actually a pretty good evaluation of the negative. I would add that on the other side he does make us better
IF we do not force throws to him like last year. He would have to understand we have other receivers and quit "freelancing".
Still he is going to want a multiple year deal in the 4 to 5 year range with a bunch of guaranteed money.
with him being out of the league for 23 months he does have less wear and tear at his age, but then it is a gamble. How much will they feel is safe to gamble? will they gamble on him? Stay tuned.... popcorn in hand next week will be entertaining.
Seems like we will find out more about this situation soon.
Still waiting to hear of the successful teams trying to sign Ridley. If he comes back to Jacksonville it'll mean the rest of the league saw what we saw last season.