(02-03-2024, 01:21 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-02-2024, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The first part of your statement has some merit, but then it all goes to poop. Consider top three receivers by team:
the "group of guys" Stroud threw to: Nico Collins (darft), Tank Dell (darft), Dalton Schultz (darft)
Love: Jayden Reed (darft), Romeo Doubs (darft), Dontayvion Wicks (darft)
Patty: Kelce (darft/re-signed), Rashee Rice (darft), Justin Watson (darft)
Loins: Amon-Ra St. Brown (how you don't know a 1500 yard receiver dude?, darft), Sam LaPorta (darft), Josh Reynolds (FA)
noticing a trend, yet? These "group of guys" are building teams through the darft. They are the next generation of Beckhams and Hopkinses that are going to be the names everyone knows in 5 years, if not already. The difference between these teams and us are we are spending like oil barons on WR/TE while these teams are doing it on the cheap, possibly excluding KC due to Kelce's deal.
Will it sustain? Time will have to tell. If these guys do become household names, or their QBs ride the wave of success to sign their own megadeals, will the QB/WR tandems stay intact? That's left to be decided. This is what gives me pause about paying yet another WR - we tie more cap into that room, and DL, OL, etc are left to build via darft on the cheap. Is one easier than the other to find production? Look at the list above and tell me what you think. 
Schultz was a free agent that multiple teams passed on for some reason
And yes, at some point the Jags must draft some talent at WR to sustain the roster and its cap.
lo siento. The one I didn't look up, Just kinda mismembered him always being a (tin)thorn in our side
(02-03-2024, 10:01 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I love Keon Coleman, btw y’all see that report from BBC saying the jags are fed up with Ridley because he didn’t gain enough weight, no YAC, and missed assignments? Said the FO was planning on targeting a WR in Rd1 Rd2
@I ain't paying attention to no sporps coverage from a place that think soccer is football@
(02-04-2024, 03:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Wow
People really don't know what walter football is.
Interesting.
And sad
Some display wisdom by choosing ignorance
When I tell soccer fans why it's called a football they shut up, think and then say okay well then that makes sense.
The balls they use are a foot long, therefore a football.
Ridley is getting the tag, and they better draft a WR with the 1st or 2nd pick. A tall, fast receiver.
Troy Franklin or Keon Coleman...looking at you.
(02-05-2024, 10:33 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]When I tell soccer fans why it's called a football they shut up, think and then say okay well then that makes sense.
The balls they use are a foot long, therefore a football.
![[Image: 135.png]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png)
Let's be real.. it makes a lot more sense that soccer is called football. And footballs are only 11 inches long.
(02-05-2024, 10:33 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]When I tell soccer fans why it's called a football they shut up, think and then say okay well then that makes sense.
The balls they use are a foot long, therefore a football.
American footballs are 11 inches long.
Not a foot.
The game began as collegiate athletic clubs in the 1870's began experimenting combining elements of European Football (soccer) and Rugby. (known as "rugby football" at the time)
Soccer was not even called "soccer" at this point. It was just football as it had been for eons.
So Americans did not begin calling the new sport football due to the ball dimensions. They called it football because it was a variation on two types of European football.
Student athletes at Oxford across the pond coined the term "soccer" to label the most widely popular "association football" differently from "rugby football"
Rugby football was called "rugger"
A
ssociation Football was called "soccer"
American and Canadian colleges at the time adopted the soccer term for the old game and kept the simplistic "football" for their newly developed sport.
We have the Canadians to thank for the forward pass by the way. Americans in the late 1800's adopted several rule changes that the Canadians came up with - while the Canadians did not adopt many of those developed in the states.
(02-05-2024, 09:12 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2024, 08:42 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]If you're Ridley, what would it take as an offer from the Jags to make you sign being less than 6 weeks away from free agency? For me, I'd have to feel pretty confident it was top of market type money to forgo free agency. So, to avoid him going to free agency it would likely need to be top of market money and a bump from 3rd to 2nd.
Alternatively, from the Jags FO perspective, they know him best because they just had him for a year. They know his work ethic, they know if/when he ran a wrong route, etc. Other GMs aren't dealing with all of the info. They're working with what he put on tape this past year and are aware of the circumstances that had him out of the NFL for 2 years. How strong is the market really going to be for him? Would he actually get top tier type money? I guess we'll find out.
If I'm the FO here and I like what I saw from him off the field, work ethic etc, I tell him we'll make a strong offer come free agency and tell him we really want him here, but won't be tagging him due to Josh Allen. If he gets a compelling offer elsewhere and takes it, I target a guy like Gabe Davis in free agency assuming he's available and look to the draft as well. Nothing Ridley did this year compels me to give up the 2.
Good god please no.
(02-05-2024, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2024, 09:12 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Good god please no.
Gabe Davis?! The guy who either has 100 yards or zero? HARD pass.
Why not? He shouldn't get anywhere near the contract numbers of Tee or Ridley. He'll also only be 25 this upcoming season and is of decent size by contrast to the smaller stature of Kirk and Ridley. Still time for improvement from him on catch rate. I'm not saying swapping out Ridley for him alone solves anything, but sign him plus add another guy in free agency or draft and I'm probably ok with that if it doesn't work out with Ridley because we've decided to prioritize dollars elsewhere in free agency. If they decide to part ways with Zay, we'll probably need to do more than that at the position in free agency or the draft, though I like how Parker was developing in Kirk's absence. Regardless, fixing the OL will prove to have a more significant impact in my mind anyway.
(02-05-2024, 03:42 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2024, 09:12 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Good god please no.
(02-05-2024, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Gabe Davis?! The guy who either has 100 yards or zero? HARD pass.
Why not? He shouldn't get anywhere near the contract numbers of Tee or Ridley. He'll also only be 25 this upcoming season and is of decent size by contrast to the smaller stature of Kirk and Ridley. Still time for improvement from him on catch rate. I'm not saying swapping out Ridley for him alone solves anything, but sign him plus add another guy in free agency or draft and I'm probably ok with that if it doesn't work out with Ridley because we've decided to prioritize dollars elsewhere in free agency. If they decide to part ways with Zay, we'll probably need to do more than that at the position in free agency or the draft, though I like how Parker was developing in Kirk's absence. Regardless, fixing the OL will prove to have a more significant impact in my mind anyway.
Why not?
He's slow. Doesn't separate well and seems to take off way too many plays/games. He's just not reliable and he would likely be the next Jags FA to come here and not live up to his contract.
I can count on 2 hands the amount of WR's that have ever had 1k yards (or close; shout out to Cecil Shorts) for the Jaguars. Ridley is one of them and thats coming off a year of rust not playing at all, and his first year in a new team and offensive system.
his "underperforming" if anything just makes the contract cheaper. The drops will improve, the unreal amount of times his catches were ruled out of bounds, overturned or he was just flat out interfered with will regress to the mean as well. We give up a 3rd rounder to let him walk, if the saving of the 2nd round pick is oh so important, I think we've lost the plot as we can finesse it and have a contract agreed upon and have it officially signed after the draft so we can keep the 2nd. Either way i'd rather have the bluechip player and give up a slightly better pick. We're far more likely to draft another Marqise Lee, Reggie Williams, etc. than we are to finding a player of Ridley's caliber. We can't let talent just walk away, Jacksonville isnt exactly a destination and if we're going to contend next year we're going to need weapons for Lawrence and outside of Tee Higgins & Mike Evans, Ridley is the best on the market.
Josh Allen wants to stay a Jaguar and the Jaguars want to keep him. Very good chance that they get a contract done before free agency. It would be a huge mistake to NOT put the franchise tag on Ridley. Despite being rusty after not playing for a year and a half, he still had over 1k yards receiving. It's clear that Ridley has big play potential, and with another year of playing with Trevor he'll only be better. That frees up the draft to bolster the interior of the O-line and D-line.
(02-05-2024, 08:17 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen wants to stay a Jaguar and the Jaguars want to keep him. Very good chance that they get a contract done before free agency. It would be a huge mistake to NOT put the franchise tag on Ridley. Despite being rusty after not playing for a year and a half, he still had over 1k yards receiving. It's clear that Ridley has big play potential, and with another year of playing with Trevor he'll only be better. That frees up the draft to bolster the interior of the O-line and D-line.
Yup 1k receiving yards, 8 TD and he led the league in drawing DPI penalties.
8 TDs is the 3rd most touchdowns in Jaguars History by a Jaguars WR.
(02-05-2024, 03:22 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ] (02-05-2024, 10:33 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]When I tell soccer fans why it's called a football they shut up, think and then say okay well then that makes sense.
The balls they use are a foot long, therefore a football.
Let's be real.. it makes a lot more sense that soccer is called football. And footballs are only 11 inches long.
Hey, what's more American than exaggerating size?
(02-06-2024, 06:42 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]8 TDs is the 3rd most touchdowns in Jaguars History by a Jaguars WR.
Staggering. That does put some of it in perspective.
He doesn't fit the type of routes and play design the Jags wanted him to run. If say they wanted to reset their slot position and move on from Kirk (which they won't do and I don't want them to do), then maybe he could fit. Maybe they projected what he could do.
Yes he got 1k yards and 8 TDS despite the rust, the offense's stagnation, and being basically miscast in his role. But the fact those numbers are so highly ranked in Jags records doesn't mean he is worth the contract or the the right piece for this team. It just shows how poor the history of Jags WR have been.
And just because he was one of the best in Jags history, the Jags can't just assume "they can't really do better" because then they will never accomplish the goals they want and we as fans want.
(02-06-2024, 05:42 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't fit the type of routes and play design the Jags wanted him to run. If say they wanted to reset their slot position and move on from Kirk (which they won't do and I don't want them to do), then maybe he could fit. Maybe they projected what he could do.
Yes he got 1k yards and 8 TDS despite the rust, the offense's stagnation, and being basically miscast in his role. But the fact those numbers are so highly ranked in Jags records doesn't mean he is worth the contract or the the right piece for this team. It just shows how poor the history of Jags WR have been.
And just because he was one of the best in Jags history, the Jags can't just assume "they can't really do better" because then they will never accomplish the goals they want and we as fans want.
If his skillset didn't fit the type of offense this team wanted to run, then, why did they trade for him? He amassed those numbers in year on a team that was vying for the 1 seed at one point in the AFC and had a chance at the minimum for the 4 seed in week 17 or week 18.
If the cost is fair and the price is right? You bring him back for year two. Again, I find it funny that some folks just think it's as simple as trusting a general manager, that has clearly failed historically in drafting star quality WR's, to replace that kind of production, especially for a guy that was out of football shape for basically 2 years.
Let's just keep entering every free agency and draft with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese, amirite? Because nothing says consistent, play off competitor level football like entering every off season looking like a block of Swiss cheese.
(02-06-2024, 05:54 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2024, 05:42 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't fit the type of routes and play design the Jags wanted him to run. If say they wanted to reset their slot position and move on from Kirk (which they won't do and I don't want them to do), then maybe he could fit. Maybe they projected what he could do.
Yes he got 1k yards and 8 TDS despite the rust, the offense's stagnation, and being basically miscast in his role. But the fact those numbers are so highly ranked in Jags records doesn't mean he is worth the contract or the the right piece for this team. It just shows how poor the history of Jags WR have been.
And just because he was one of the best in Jags history, the Jags can't just assume "they can't really do better" because then they will never accomplish the goals they want and we as fans want.
If his skillset didn't fit the type of offense this team wanted to run, then, why did they trade for him? He amassed those numbers in year on a team that was vying for the 1 seed at one point in the AFC and had a chance at the minimum for the 4 seed in week 17 or week 18.
If the cost is fair and the price is right? You bring him back for year two. Again, I find it funny that some folks just think it's as simple as trusting a general manager, that has clearly failed historically in drafting star quality WR's, to replace that kind of production, especially for a guy that was out of football shape for basically 2 years.
Let's just keep entering every free agency and draft with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese, amirite? Because nothing says consistent, play off competitor level football like entering every off season looking like a block of Swiss cheese.
So he was a young, upcoming WR. It was unclear if he had peaked or not. In '21, he was basically not himself even before he stepped away. His big season in '20, he still had Julio Jones scaring defense opposite him. So I totally get taking the gamble on the upside, and seeing if he could be what they wanted him to be.
Watching Pederson run the offense the past 2 seasons, I don't get the feeling he dramatically changes up the offense to fit his personnel. Instead he tries to find the personnel to run his offense. We never really seen major shifts in run schemes or formations during the middle of the season or in game adjustments. It is more taking some things out of play book and focusing on other aspects of the playbook. They didn't even pivot to moving Ridley back to the slot --where he excelled in Atlanta-- when Kirk got hurt.
The Jags cannot fall for the sunk cost fallacy of giving Ridley $18-20 million. That basically means you are paying $50 million just for your top 3 pass catchers in Ridley/Kirk/Engram (plus another $10 million for Zay Jones if he stays) and praying none of them get hurt. And even with those 4 guys, they had trouble threatening defenses deep in order to open up the middle passing zone that Pederson loves to attack and they feasted on to end '22. And still none of those guys are No. 1's in the way that open up an offensive game plan, or make it easier to scheme against a good defense. And the AFC is full of good defenses.
That plan only works if Trevor actually has a true MVP like performance, which is far from a given right now.
First, Ridley will test the FA market, unless he is crazy or we give him a mega deal. Why wouldn't he? He was working his way up on his rookie deal, made a bad choice. He was banned from the one thing he had worked for since early childhood for 18 months. He has to see what is out there.
Personally, I believe he is not a true #1, he is plus #2. The Jags (I hope) will make him a good offer along those lines.
Ridley is only the 7th WR in franchise history to have 1,000 or more yards receiving in a single season.
1. Jimmy Smith
2. Keenan McCardell
3. Allen Robinson
4. Allen Hurns
5. DJ Chark
6. Christian Kirk
7. Calvin Ridley
(02-06-2024, 08:58 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2024, 05:54 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]If his skillset didn't fit the type of offense this team wanted to run, then, why did they trade for him? He amassed those numbers in year on a team that was vying for the 1 seed at one point in the AFC and had a chance at the minimum for the 4 seed in week 17 or week 18.
If the cost is fair and the price is right? You bring him back for year two. Again, I find it funny that some folks just think it's as simple as trusting a general manager, that has clearly failed historically in drafting star quality WR's, to replace that kind of production, especially for a guy that was out of football shape for basically 2 years.
Let's just keep entering every free agency and draft with more holes than a block of Swiss cheese, amirite? Because nothing says consistent, play off competitor level football like entering every off season looking like a block of Swiss cheese.
So he was a young, upcoming WR. It was unclear if he had peaked or not. In '21, he was basically not himself even before he stepped away. His big season in '20, he still had Julio Jones scaring defense opposite him. So I totally get taking the gamble on the upside, and seeing if he could be what they wanted him to be.
Watching Pederson run the offense the past 2 seasons, I don't get the feeling he dramatically changes up the offense to fit his personnel. Instead he tries to find the personnel to run his offense. We never really seen major shifts in run schemes or formations during the middle of the season or in game adjustments. It is more taking some things out of play book and focusing on other aspects of the playbook. They didn't even pivot to moving Ridley back to the slot --where he excelled in Atlanta-- when Kirk got hurt.
The Jags cannot fall for the sunk cost fallacy of giving Ridley $18-20 million. That basically means you are paying $50 million just for your top 3 pass catchers in Ridley/Kirk/Engram (plus another $10 million for Zay Jones if he stays) and praying none of them get hurt. And even with those 4 guys, they had trouble threatening defenses deep in order to open up the middle passing zone that Pederson loves to attack and they feasted on to end '22. And still none of those guys are No. 1's in the way that open up an offensive game plan, or make it easier to scheme against a good defense. And the AFC is full of good defenses.
That plan only works if Trevor actually has a true MVP like performance, which is far from a given right now.
All of this speculation gets dumped on it's head when you factor in how weak, poor and inconsistent the offensive line play has been for the past two years. We also had no running game at all with the exception of maybe two games where Etienne managed to break a pair of decent runs off.
Hard to shift or change anything when your offensive line is made up of changeling's and we're out there soul searching as a coaching staff and fanbase looking for the real deal. It's hard to dictate anything you want to do as a play caller when your running game is getting dictated to the tune of negative 1 - 3 yards in the backfield on average.
You're not going to get much out of anybody right now until the interior three is resolved on the offensive line at the bare minimum. This is what happens when your General Manager builds the team backwards instead of focusing on the foundational pieces to every successful football team historically.
At this point, Baalke is now tasked with the unfortunate endeavor of having to not only maintain some of his skill position players that he picked-up too soon, but, he now has to quickly patch up massive holes at the base of his ship before it sinks. You need sails to catch the wind and you need a sturdy boat to keep everybody afloat.
O Captain! My Captain!