Josh Allen is 3rd in sacks and like 3rd is pressure's. The dude has been balling with literally no help from the interior.
Pay him and get another stud behind him and walker
(12-09-2023, 08:06 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2023, 07:39 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]What, exactly, does that have to do with him being the 'same player'?
Nothing. I guess. Other than Ngakoue and Allen were both amazing players when they wanted to be, but they also didn't show up quite often.
Sorry, I guess I'm just a very cynical fan. Josh Allen does great when he does great. Yannick was the same. After Yannick got his bag from Chicago, he basically became irrelevant. I don't mind keeping Allen. I just don't think he's worth a top 10 Edge Rush contract. 20 million per would be a good contract for him... That is the going rate...
While I love Allen, he's not worth a top 5 annual contract. He's just not.
I'm not sure if I'm being unclear with what I'm saying... He's worth keeping. But he's not worth keeping as a top 5 Edge Rusher. He's top 10... There's no need to break the bank. And if he want to go that route, he'll wind up like Yannick. With a huge bag but on an under performing team...
I'm not saying anything revolutionary here.
Edit: Here's the payout range for Edge Rushers... https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher
Assuming that the Cap increases by 5% for next year. I still don't see why we'd pay Allen 30 million per year. He's worthy of a 20 Million contract over 4 years, with a signing bonus. Then we can re-sign Walker so long as he continues to progress. And we also have room for Aloukun, and Campbell so long as he gets health. All while also having to consider that money we're about to invest into Lawrence while determining which recievers and Linemen we're gonna invest in...
Pay Josh Allen? Absolutely. But I hope we don't over-pay to the point we lose other talent. Josh Allen, while having a really good year, isn't a game changer to where you give him all the monies.
1. This team doesn't let talent walk, they've not has talent worthy of keeping in decades.
2. Josh Allen is a stud and will be paid like it, whether here or elsewhere.
3. Dre'Mont Jones just got 3/$51m coming off a 6 sack season. You just show over and over again that you have no realistic understanding of this game.
Yannick, even in his prime here, was CONSISTENTLY called out (in his “Pay Ngakoue” thread) for his inability to stop the run. He was a great straight rusher. And I wanted to keep him. But trying to say Allen and Yan are one and the same is ridiculous.
Allen is a complete player.
Yan was strictly a rotational pass rush specialist who we had no choice but to keep on the field for run stop defense.
Just because people loved and wanted to keep Yan and people also love and want to keep Allen doesn’t make their talent/market/team impact the same.
Give me Allen over Ngakoue all day every day.
(12-09-2023, 08:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2023, 08:06 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing. I guess. Other than Ngakoue and Allen were both amazing players when they wanted to be, but they also didn't show up quite often.
Sorry, I guess I'm just a very cynical fan. Josh Allen does great when he does great. Yannick was the same. After Yannick got his bag from Chicago, he basically became irrelevant. I don't mind keeping Allen. I just don't think he's worth a top 10 Edge Rush contract. 20 million per would be a good contract for him... That is the going rate...
While I love Allen, he's not worth a top 5 annual contract. He's just not.
I'm not sure if I'm being unclear with what I'm saying... He's worth keeping. But he's not worth keeping as a top 5 Edge Rusher. He's top 10... There's no need to break the bank. And if he want to go that route, he'll wind up like Yannick. With a huge bag but on an under performing team...
I'm not saying anything revolutionary here.
Edit: Here's the payout range for Edge Rushers... https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher
Assuming that the Cap increases by 5% for next year. I still don't see why we'd pay Allen 30 million per year. He's worthy of a 20 Million contract over 4 years, with a signing bonus. Then we can re-sign Walker so long as he continues to progress. And we also have room for Aloukun, and Campbell so long as he gets health. All while also having to consider that money we're about to invest into Lawrence while determining which recievers and Linemen we're gonna invest in...
Pay Josh Allen? Absolutely. But I hope we don't over-pay to the point we lose other talent. Josh Allen, while having a really good year, isn't a game changer to where you give him all the monies.
1. This team doesn't let talent walk, they've not has talent worthy of keeping in decades.
2. Josh Allen is a stud and will be paid like it, whether here or elsewhere.
3. Dre'Mont Jones just got 3/$51m coming off a 6 sack season. You just show over and over again that you have no realistic understanding of this game.
Allen Robinson wasn't talent? Calais "Mayor of Sacksonville" Campbell wasn't talent?? Juwaan Taylor wasn't talent? Yannick wasn't talent? Jalen [BLEEP] Ramsey wasn't talent?????
And before you try to defend the franchise based on the antics of Ramsey, he only acted that way because he should have already been paid, and the Front Office was trying to short change him...
Come on, man.
Did Josh sniff the qb yesterday?
(12-10-2023, 05:40 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2023, 08:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]1. This team doesn't let talent walk, they've not has talent worthy of keeping in decades.
2. Josh Allen is a stud and will be paid like it, whether here or elsewhere.
3. Dre'Mont Jones just got 3/$51m coming off a 6 sack season. You just show over and over again that you have no realistic understanding of this game.
Allen Robinson wasn't talent? Calais "Mayor of Sacksonville" Campbell wasn't talent?? Juwaan Taylor wasn't talent? Yannick wasn't talent? Jalen [BLEEP] Ramsey wasn't talent?????
And before you try to defend the franchise based on the antics of Ramsey, he only acted that way because he should have already been paid, and the Front Office was trying to short change him...
Come on, man.
1. No, he was already a slower guy coming off an ACL who disappered in Chicago.
2. He was traded. I would've kept him one more year, but at his age and price it's also understandable why they moved him.
3. No, Taylor wasn't even average and KC overpaid for him.
4. Not really, he's a malcontent pass only guy who's so talented that he's been on a different team every year since he left here.
5. Lol. Rasmey is the only one I agree was truly talented when he left, but the Coughlin Debacle clearly burned that bridge.
C'mon yourself, you need to drop the teal shades and see these guys for what they actually were. Josh Allen is a stud and will be paid like it, here or elsewhere. Your take sucked and shows your ignorance of the NFL.
My only problem is he has this kind of year when he needs a new contract but there is no denying he has been playing really well. He also has a great attitude. I am not 100% sure he will keep this level of play but I think this time we have to make a deal.
(12-11-2023, 01:49 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]My only problem is he has this kind of year when he needs a new contract but there is no denying he has been playing really well. He also has a great attitude. I am not 100% sure he will keep this level of play but I think this time we have to make a deal.
The best bet is for our #1 overall selection at DE/OLB from Georgia to step up to the plate and help out Allen - because Josh is definitely getting it done and getting keyed in on by opposing offenses.
(12-11-2023, 03:29 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023, 01:49 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]My only problem is he has this kind of year when he needs a new contract but there is no denying he has been playing really well. He also has a great attitude. I am not 100% sure he will keep this level of play but I think this time we have to make a deal.
The best bet is for our #1 overall selection at DE/OLB from Georgia to step up to the plate and help out Allen - because Josh is definitely getting it done and getting keyed in on by opposing offenses.
Walker has been doubled more than Allen.
(12-11-2023, 03:29 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023, 01:49 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]My only problem is he has this kind of year when he needs a new contract but there is no denying he has been playing really well. He also has a great attitude. I am not 100% sure he will keep this level of play but I think this time we have to make a deal.
The best bet is for our #1 overall selection at DE/OLB from Georgia to step up to the plate and help out Allen - because Josh is definitely getting it done and getting keyed in on by opposing offenses.
This is the biggest issue playing all the money he will command. 1 player on defense can get stopped and he isn't good enough to impact the game himself without others on the DL helping (very few are).
So if he wants too much money so you can't sign players to fix the other holes on the lines, then you may need to say no. It would be painful but could be better with 2 for 1 price.
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(12-11-2023, 03:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023, 03:29 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]The best bet is for our #1 overall selection at DE/OLB from Georgia to step up to the plate and help out Allen - because Josh is definitely getting it done and getting keyed in on by opposing offenses.
Walker has been doubled more than Allen.
Yep. A lot more. It's a soup of things that need to happen and it's not going to happen this year. It's obvious what this team lacks that the elite teams have. Doesn't take much observation skills to see it.
Our interior line play on both sides is horrendous. It's been horrendous now for years and this front office has chosen, for whatever reason, to build it's pyramid backwards.
You always start with your foundation first. Especially when you're gifted a generational franchise fortune changing talent at the QB position. We grabbed WR's, TE's, LB's, RB's and CB's while ignoring the foundational pieces to set those guys up for success.
I really think Lawrence is capable of making average talent look better at the skill positions already if you just give him a better supporting line. It's the same support Allen and Walker need in between them.
Fatukaski, Hamilton, Robertson-Harris and anybody else I can't think of right now are [BLEEP] box. Due to injuries, lack of talent, etc. Doesn't matter. It's just not good enough to move the needle consistently to topple most offenses.
It's beyond frustrating at this point, because, we all know what happens next starting next year. It'll be the classic song and dance of "too little, too late". We've officially pissed away three years now on Lawrence's rookie deal.
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(12-14-2023, 01:31 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2023, 12:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/PFF_Jaguars/status/1...69748?s=20
Wait wait wait. I was told on good authority that Allen wasn't even a top 12 DE
He'll have to take an incentive-laden contract to even make a roster. Maybe 10 to 15 million per or so.
(12-14-2023, 05:52 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2023, 01:31 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Wait wait wait. I was told on good authority that Allen wasn't even a top 12 DE
He'll have to take an incentive-laden contract to even make a roster. Maybe 10 to 15 million per or so.
Chess not checkers. When he laughs that offer off the table and goes elsewhere for 50% to 100% more and then returns here to face us, he’ll be, again, laughing so hard at the thought of the Jaguars low ball offer during each snap that he’ll be easy to block. Game, set, match.
Josh Allen is looking iconic in that black visor, along with having the best defensive season in Jaguars History.
Most Iconic tinted-visors in Jaguars History:
1. Natrone Means 1996
2. Josh Allen 2023
3. Mike Peterson 2005
4. Terrance Knighton 2012
5. Quinn Gray 2007
Some other nice looking Jaguars accessories:
1. Fred Taylor with the double arm sleeves
2. Tony Brackens’ Cowboy Collar
3. Kyle Brady Cowboy Collar
4. Kevin Hardy Cowboy Collar
5. Keenan McCardell white knee high socks
6. Fred Taylor’s white Rebox on Astro-turf
7. Jimmy Smith with the skinny towel
8. Darius wore the Cowboy Collar a few times
9. Leon Searcy with the old school, vertical bar down the center of his helmet
10. RJay Soward with the double black arm sleeves in 2000
(12-15-2023, 08:58 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen is looking iconic in that black visor, along with having the best defensive season in Jaguars History.
Most Iconic tinted-visors in Jaguars History:
1. Natrone Means 1996
2. Josh Allen 2023
3. Mike Peterson 2005
4. Terrance Knighton 2012
5. Quinn Gray 2007
Some other nice looking Jaguars accessories:
1. Fred Taylor with the double arm sleeves
2. Tony Brackens’ Cowboy Collar
3. Kyle Bardy Cowboy Collar
4. Kevin Hardy Cowboy Collar
5. Keenan McCardell white knee high socks
6. Fred Taylor’s white Rebox on Astro-turf
7. Jimmy Smith with the skinny towel
8. Darius wore the Cowboy Collar a few times
9. Leon Searcy with the old school, vertical bar down the center of his helmet
10. RJay Soward with the double black arm sleeves in 2000
Kyle Bardy with the Cowboy Collar is fantastic. Mark Brunell with the knee brace and flak jacket as well.
(12-15-2023, 09:50 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-15-2023, 08:58 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen is looking iconic in that black visor, along with having the best defensive season in Jaguars History.
Most Iconic tinted-visors in Jaguars History:
1. Natrone Means 1996
2. Josh Allen 2023
3. Mike Peterson 2005
4. Terrance Knighton 2012
5. Quinn Gray 2007
Some other nice looking Jaguars accessories:
1. Fred Taylor with the double arm sleeves
2. Tony Brackens’ Cowboy Collar
3. Kyle Bardy Cowboy Collar
4. Kevin Hardy Cowboy Collar
5. Keenan McCardell white knee high socks
6. Fred Taylor’s white Rebox on Astro-turf
7. Jimmy Smith with the skinny towel
8. Darius wore the Cowboy Collar a few times
9. Leon Searcy with the old school, vertical bar down the center of his helmet
10. RJay Soward with the double black arm sleeves in 2000
Kyle Bardy with the Cowboy Collar is fantastic. Mark Brunell with the knee brace and flak jacket as well.
*Brady. Auto correct at it again.