Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(01-06-2024, 08:37 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]The NFL owes Allen *1 extra sack

Agreed, that [BLEEP] was so bad.

Can't get the youtube short to embed. Not sure why. Josh Allen basically thanking Duval as if he isn't coming back.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lk5FCPha2Mg

(01-10-2024, 08:37 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Can't get the youtube short to embed. Not sure why. Josh Allen basically thanking Duval as if he isn't coming back.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lk5FCPha2Mg

Context, man

C'mon

The question not heard was about what the fans and their loyalty mean to the players

Let's not paint this inaccurately

Allen said big things are in the works and is excited. Nice

I'm going to optimistically assume Baalke was just waiting for the Pro Bowl distractions to be over before starting negotiations with Josh's camp.

(02-06-2024, 08:57 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to optimistically assume Baalke was just waiting for the Pro Bowl distractions to be over before starting negotiations with Josh's camp.

Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

(02-06-2024, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 08:57 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to optimistically assume Baalke was just waiting for the Pro Bowl distractions to be over before starting negotiations with Josh's camp.

Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

I think...think mind you, that the FO should've made contact with the player's agent to at least start the talks so Baalke could say that. If he'd even said "Hey we're doing these things and then we wanna sit down with you but we want Josh here long term" then there wouldn't be the angst we see here. Instead we get a response that sounds like more of Baalke's reputation for being difficult with the players AFTER they already blew it last offseason by not already taking care of this. Baalke does the easy things the hardest way possible and it gets old.

Edit: Of course Baalke is dumb enough to have already put it out there like the Tag was coming, guess he went to the flgates dude's school of Emotionally Unintelligent Negotiating.

(02-06-2024, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 08:57 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to optimistically assume Baalke was just waiting for the Pro Bowl distractions to be over before starting negotiations with Josh's camp.

Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

In all honesty? Yes. There really shouldn't be anything difficult about coming to the conclusion, that, regardless of roster evaluations, difficult decisions and whether or not they had their new defensive coordinator in the building?

Josh Allen fits in at the top of your list of priorities. Period. I am sure they'll eventually get something done and worked out. May not like the process. Maybe we shouldn't sweat the technique too much. But, just seems like negligence at the end of the day for most fans. 

Still, it doesn't look good when we're entering month two of the off season and neither party has sat down yet or the main component to the getting the conversation rolling is in our building and he hasn't done anything according to the player and his camp in question. Makes him look like a pompous [BLEEP].

(02-06-2024, 10:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

In all honesty? Yes. There really shouldn't be anything difficult about coming to the conclusion, that, regardless of roster evaluations, difficult decisions and whether or not they had their new defensive coordinator in the building?

Josh Allen fits in at the top of your list of priorities. Period. I am sure they'll eventually get something done and worked out. May not like the process. Maybe we shouldn't sweat the technique too much. But, just seems like negligence at the end of the day for most fans. 

Still, it doesn't look good when we're entering month two of the off season and neither party has sat down yet or the main component to the getting the conversation rolling is in our building and he hasn't done anything according to the player and his camp in question. Makes him look like a pompous [BLEEP].

Or - Baalke simply knows this agent and this agent knows Baalke. (and they do have plenty of familiarity - Joel Segal is one of the most influential sports agents on the scene and has been for many years) 

And it is very easy to imagine that both sides already had an understanding that Allen's camp would be letting the free agent edge market play out before getting to a number so they could use every tactic available to push the numbers up. (Burns and Hunter deals are imminent) 

Regarding priorities - Baalke was crystal clear about the priority. He must have said 6 times that Allen would be a Jag in 2024. It's not about deciding if they want him - it's about having dialogue concerning exactly how "mega" the mega-deal is going to be. That number will depend on all of that other evaluation I mentioned  - plans for other free agents yet to be determined - a Lawrence deal if it is happening this year - and a determination of cap space to carry into 2025. 

Personally - I wouldn't begin a negotiation if I didn't know my own end game yet. I can see why they needed to figure some [BLEEP] out first. 

Feel free to go see exactly behind the curve our front office is right now by perusing the long list of mega-deals getting done around the league over the past 2 weeks:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/transactions

(hint: it's all coaching hires and futures deals for PS players with a couple of waives mixed in)

Maybe I'm giving Baalke too much rope - but for the life of me I don't see anything weird about this process. I think a couple of tweets got blown way out of proportion and a fanbase already marching down Main Street with tar, feathers, and pitchforks for the GM just ran with it.

(01-02-2024, 02:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]He deserves at least $20M guaranteed per year.  Put some incentives and voidables on top of that.

Astrophysicist that one day discovers the link between quantum physics and Einsteins general relativity: 80,000 a year.

Guy that plays a child's game: 20,000,000 a year.

Society has lost its way

(02-06-2024, 11:03 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2024, 02:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]He deserves at least $20M guaranteed per year.  Put some incentives and voidables on top of that.

Astrophysicist that one day discovers the link between quantum physics and Einsteins general relativity: 80,000 a year.

Guy that plays a child's game: 20,000,000 a year.

Society has lost its way

This borders on political, do not post it here.

---

For those that are playing along at home:

Rashan Gary: 4 years, $96 million with $34.6 guaranteed

Montez Sweat: 4 years, $98 million with $62.8 guaranteed.

So any of you who think that Allen is signing for around $25 million per year...I seriously doubt it.

(02-06-2024, 10:59 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]In all honesty? Yes. There really shouldn't be anything difficult about coming to the conclusion, that, regardless of roster evaluations, difficult decisions and whether or not they had their new defensive coordinator in the building?

Josh Allen fits in at the top of your list of priorities. Period. I am sure they'll eventually get something done and worked out. May not like the process. Maybe we shouldn't sweat the technique too much. But, just seems like negligence at the end of the day for most fans. 

Still, it doesn't look good when we're entering month two of the off season and neither party has sat down yet or the main component to the getting the conversation rolling is in our building and he hasn't done anything according to the player and his camp in question. Makes him look like a pompous [BLEEP].

Or - Baalke simply knows this agent and this agent knows Baalke. (and they do have plenty of familiarity - Joel Segal is one of the most influential sports agents on the scene and has been for many years) 

And it is very easy to imagine that both sides already had an understanding that Allen's camp would be letting the free agent edge market play out before getting to a number so they could use every tactic available to push the numbers up. (Burns and Hunter deals are imminent) 

Regarding priorities - Baalke was crystal clear about the priority. He must have said 6 times that Allen would be a Jag in 2024. It's not about deciding if they want him - it's about having dialogue concerning exactly how "mega" the mega-deal is going to be. That number will depend on all of that other evaluation I mentioned  - plans for other free agents yet to be determined - a Lawrence deal if it is happening this year - and a determination of cap space to carry into 2025. 

Personally - I wouldn't begin a negotiation if I didn't know my own end game yet. I can see why they needed to figure some [BLEEP] out first. 

Feel free to go see exactly behind the curve our front office is right now by perusing the long list of mega-deals getting done around the league over the past 2 weeks:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/transactions

(hint: it's all coaching hires and futures deals for PS players with a couple of waives mixed in)

Maybe I'm giving Baalke too much rope - but for the life of me I don't see anything weird about this process. I think a couple of tweets got blown way out of proportion and a fanbase already marching down Main Street with tar, feathers, and pitchforks for the GM just ran with it.

Relax. I just like ruffling your feathers on this topic. You're very rational. It's the off season and I am just impatient is all. I am confident a deal gets done one way or another. There's more than one way to skin a cat (Jaguar in this case). I may not like Baalke's approach or method but he'll get it done. 

Money always talks in these situations and a lot of it probably boils down to two things as it always does:

1. How much up front?
2. How long for?

---

(02-06-2024, 11:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]For those that are playing along at home:

Rashan Gary: 4 years, $96 million with $34.6 guaranteed

Montez Sweat: 4 years, $98 million with $62.8 guaranteed.

So any of you who think that Allen is signing for around $25 million per year...I seriously doubt it.

Due to his age. I would honestly like to see a longer deal worked out to stretch out the per year hit if possible. I cited my numbers earlier in this thread and another one I think. Laid out the logic behind it based upon some of his contemporaries at the outside backer position. 

6 year deal, in the $130 - $135M range would be nice. Give him a good guarantee on the deal. Front load it. Give us an easy out entering years 4 - 6 of the deal, etc. 

This is where I think Baalke shines for me personally. As much [BLEEP] as I like to throw at him with his approaches in the draft, he does in fact, make some pretty good contracts and deals on paper and he does have a knack for finding good defensive players throughout his draft classes in various rounds.

(02-06-2024, 11:27 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:59 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Or - Baalke simply knows this agent and this agent knows Baalke. (and they do have plenty of familiarity - Joel Segal is one of the most influential sports agents on the scene and has been for many years) 

And it is very easy to imagine that both sides already had an understanding that Allen's camp would be letting the free agent edge market play out before getting to a number so they could use every tactic available to push the numbers up. (Burns and Hunter deals are imminent) 

Regarding priorities - Baalke was crystal clear about the priority. He must have said 6 times that Allen would be a Jag in 2024. It's not about deciding if they want him - it's about having dialogue concerning exactly how "mega" the mega-deal is going to be. That number will depend on all of that other evaluation I mentioned  - plans for other free agents yet to be determined - a Lawrence deal if it is happening this year - and a determination of cap space to carry into 2025. 

Personally - I wouldn't begin a negotiation if I didn't know my own end game yet. I can see why they needed to figure some [BLEEP] out first. 

Feel free to go see exactly behind the curve our front office is right now by perusing the long list of mega-deals getting done around the league over the past 2 weeks:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/transactions

(hint: it's all coaching hires and futures deals for PS players with a couple of waives mixed in)

Maybe I'm giving Baalke too much rope - but for the life of me I don't see anything weird about this process. I think a couple of tweets got blown way out of proportion and a fanbase already marching down Main Street with tar, feathers, and pitchforks for the GM just ran with it.

Relax. I just like ruffling your feathers on this topic. You're very rational. It's the off season and I am just impatient is all. I am confident a deal gets done one way or another. There's more than one way to skin a cat (Jaguar in this case). I may not like Baalke's approach or method but he'll get it done. 

Money always talks in these situations and a lot of it probably boils down to two things as it always does:

1. How much up front?
2. How long for?

---

(02-06-2024, 11:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]For those that are playing along at home:

Rashan Gary: 4 years, $96 million with $34.6 guaranteed

Montez Sweat: 4 years, $98 million with $62.8 guaranteed.

So any of you who think that Allen is signing for around $25 million per year...I seriously doubt it.

Due to his age. I would honestly like to see a longer deal worked out to stretch out the per year hit if possible. I cited my numbers earlier in this thread and another one I think. Laid out the logic behind it based upon some of his contemporaries at the outside backer position. 

6 year deal, in the $130 - $135M range would be nice. Give him a good guarantee on the deal. Front load it. Give us an easy out entering years 4 - 6 of the deal, etc. 

This is where I think Baalke shines for me personally. As much [BLEEP] as I like to throw at him with his approaches in the draft, he does in fact, make some pretty good contracts and deals on paper and he does have a knack for finding good defensive players throughout his draft classes in various rounds.

Those two I listed got $24 and $24.5 per year respectively; there's no way Josh Allen gets less than that a year later. That's the whole reason I keep pointing out that Bosa's deal isn't some crazy number that no one else is going to get; Allen is better than guys who are already making more than what some on here are suggesting he doesn't deserve.

Josh Allen is going to get at least $25 million per year. I suspect that we will need to offer $28 million+ in order to get a deal done.

(02-06-2024, 01:21 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen is going to get at least $25 million per year. I suspect that we will need to offer $28 million+ in order to get a deal done.

$25 per was last year's number for guys he outperformed this year. It likely going to be much more than that if they want him for more than the Tag year.

(02-06-2024, 01:22 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:21 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen is going to get at least $25 million per year. I suspect that we will need to offer $28 million+ in order to get a deal done.

$25 per was last year's number for guys he outperformed this year. It likely going to be much more than that if they want him for more than the Tag year.

And if they use the tag, it's going to cripple them in FA this year.

The only logical move is to give him a big contract (and if that's top DE money so be it) and give him a small cap hit this year.

(02-06-2024, 01:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:22 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]$25 per was last year's number for guys he outperformed this year. It likely going to be much more than that if they want him for more than the Tag year.

And if they use the tag, it's going to cripple them in FA this year.

The only logical move is to give him a big contract (and if that's top DE money so be it) and give him a small cap hit this year.

And this is the case study in how to deal with Lawrence this year before this happens to 10x the effect on the cap with him.

(02-06-2024, 01:22 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:21 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen is going to get at least $25 million per year. I suspect that we will need to offer $28 million+ in order to get a deal done.

$25 per was last year's number for guys he outperformed this year. It likely going to be much more than that if they want him for more than the Tag year.

That was more in response to the people thinking he's going to take less. I don't think he takes less than $28 million, and it might end up hitting $30 million. But, I'm more optimistic that we can get him for $28 million.

Anyone that doesn't want to pay that just needs to realize he will leave and a team will make that offer. It isn't often that 17.5 sack guys hit free agency.

(02-06-2024, 01:25 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:22 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]$25 per was last year's number for guys he outperformed this year. It likely going to be much more than that if they want him for more than the Tag year.

That was more in response to the people thinking he's going to take less. I don't think he takes less than $28 million, and it might end up hitting $30 million. But, I'm more optimistic that we can get him for $28 million.

Anyone that doesn't want to pay that just needs to realize he will leave and a team will make that offer. It isn't often that 17.5 sack guys hit free agency.

Agreed, he's start a bidding war if he got to the open market.