Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(02-06-2024, 01:25 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And if they use the tag, it's going to cripple them in FA this year.

The only logical move is to give him a big contract (and if that's top DE money so be it) and give him a small cap hit this year.

And this is the case study in how to deal with Lawrence this year before this happens to 10x the effect on the cap with him.

It depends on what he wants. If he wants top 3 money this offseason then I'd rather wait until next year. If he wants top 10? Sure, get the deal done this offseason.

Realistically, even if we sign him this offseason we are going to be restructuring like KC does with Mahomes if he outplays the value.

(02-06-2024, 01:27 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:25 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And this is the case study in how to deal with Lawrence this year before this happens to 10x the effect on the cap with him.

It depends on what he wants. If he wants top 3 money this offseason then I'd rather wait until next year. If he wants top 10? Sure, get the deal done this offseason.

Realistically, even if we sign him this offseason we are going to be restructuring like KC does with Mahomes if he outplays the value.

Mahomes got a 450 million dollar deal. Let's not include him in any conversations about contracts.

Burrow- 275 million
Herbert- 262 million
Lamar- 260 million
Allen- 258 million
Hurts- 255 million

Jordan Love is likely going to be the next 250 million dollar QB (whether you agree or not this is likely to happen).

So are you willing to give Trevor 250 million this year or risk it in 2024? If he blows up in 2024 like we all hope, you're looking at Trevor being 300 million or more.

(02-06-2024, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:27 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]It depends on what he wants. If he wants top 3 money this offseason then I'd rather wait until next year. If he wants top 10? Sure, get the deal done this offseason.

Realistically, even if we sign him this offseason we are going to be restructuring like KC does with Mahomes if he outplays the value.

Mahomes got a 450 million dollar deal. Let's not include him in any conversations about contracts.

Burrow- 275 million
Herbert- 262 million
Lamar- 260 million
Allen- 258 million
Hurts- 255 million

Jordan Love is likely going to be the next 250 million dollar QB (whether you agree or not this is likely to happen).

So are you willing to give Trevor 250 million this year or risk it in 2024? If he blows up in 2024 like we all hope, you're looking at Trevor being 300 million or more.

Why would we not include Mahomes? He's 450 over 10 years, and all I've been hearing from people on this board is that there is a good chance Trevor would take the same type of contract due to home team friendly it is with the length.

Yes, I do not want to pay Trevor $55 million per year this offseason. Call me crazy, but I would really like to see how he improves with a better O-Line before mortgaging my entire cap future on his contract.

(02-06-2024, 01:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 01:27 PM)Charlie Sheen Wrote: [ -> ]It depends on what he wants. If he wants top 3 money this offseason then I'd rather wait until next year. If he wants top 10? Sure, get the deal done this offseason.

Realistically, even if we sign him this offseason we are going to be restructuring like KC does with Mahomes if he outplays the value.

Mahomes got a 450 million dollar deal. Let's not include him in any conversations about contracts.

Burrow- 275 million
Herbert- 262 million
Lamar- 260 million
Allen- 258 million
Hurts- 255 million

Jordan Love is likely going to be the next 250 million dollar QB (whether you agree or not this is likely to happen).

So are you willing to give Trevor 250 million this year or risk it in 2024? If he blows up in 2024 like we all hope, you're looking at Trevor being 300 million or more.

I see something more like the Daniel Jones deal for Jordan Love ---- 4 years $160m but only 2 years @ $40m each year guaranteed or something like that.

Trevor will get his $$ --- $50m/year minimum.  No way Shad will let him go after suffering with the QB position since he bought this team.  Trevor is key to Shad's downtown investments as well.

(02-06-2024, 10:38 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

I think...think mind you, that the FO should've made contact with the player's agent to at least start the talks so Baalke could say that. If he'd even said "Hey we're doing these things and then we wanna sit down with you but we want Josh here long term" then there wouldn't be the angst we see here. Instead we get a response that sounds like more of Baalke's reputation for being difficult with the players AFTER they already blew it last offseason by not already taking care of this. Baalke does the easy things the hardest way possible and it gets old.

Edit: Of course Baalke is dumb enough to have already put it out there like the Tag was coming, guess he went to the flgates dude's school of Emotionally Unintelligent Negotiating.

eh, calling just to call ain't worth it.

Call me when we are ready to get into the nitty gritty. Agent is going to want to know where they are starting, offerwise, and if agent sends counter they are going to expect response. If there are other distractions that delay that process, take care of the distractions if we're not up against a hard deadline.

Getting them on the horn just to say "we're gonna talk later about deals" is stating the already obvious and potentially disruptive. Agents are probably busy right now with all the darft eligible dudes, figuring out training, testing, filming, etc in lead up to April. Purely speculation on my part, but I know if our developers scheduled a call just to tell me "We're not ready to begin work on the project, but in the near future we will want to get together to discuss your needs" I'd be cheesed that I stopped my current work for ultimately unproductive use of time.

(02-06-2024, 10:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Baalke said in his presser:

• the coaching staff were doing roster evaluations,
  
•  the F.O. staff had just completed roster evaluations
  
• the two sides had yet to sit down together to make some "difficult decisions"
  
• and they were literally in the middle of interviewing and hiring the coaches who would be coaching Josh Allen in 2024
  

Is it really that unreasonable that they would seek to complete these processes before entering negotiation with Allen six weeks prior to the tag deadline?

In all honesty? Yes. There really shouldn't be anything difficult about coming to the conclusion, that, regardless of roster evaluations, difficult decisions and whether or not they had their new defensive coordinator in the building?

Josh Allen fits in at the top of your list of priorities. Period. I am sure they'll eventually get something done and worked out. May not like the process. Maybe we shouldn't sweat the technique too much. But, just seems like negligence at the end of the day for most fans. 

Still, it doesn't look good when we're entering month two of the off season and neither party has sat down yet or the main component to the getting the conversation rolling is in our building and he hasn't done anything according to the player and his camp in question. Makes him look like a pompous [BLEEP].

Maybe I burned too much tree in my younger days, but I just can't get this worked up about things totally out of my control, especially when the prevailing logic says that in due time it's going to get done.

(02-07-2024, 09:43 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-06-2024, 10:38 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think...think mind you, that the FO should've made contact with the player's agent to at least start the talks so Baalke could say that. If he'd even said "Hey we're doing these things and then we wanna sit down with you but we want Josh here long term" then there wouldn't be the angst we see here. Instead we get a response that sounds like more of Baalke's reputation for being difficult with the players AFTER they already blew it last offseason by not already taking care of this. Baalke does the easy things the hardest way possible and it gets old.

Edit: Of course Baalke is dumb enough to have already put it out there like the Tag was coming, guess he went to the flgates dude's school of Emotionally Unintelligent Negotiating.

eh, calling just to call ain't worth it.

Call me when we are ready to get into the nitty gritty. Agent is going to want to know where they are starting, offerwise, and if agent sends counter they are going to expect response. If there are other distractions that delay that process, take care of the distractions if we're not up against a hard deadline.

Getting them on the horn just to say "we're gonna talk later about deals" is stating the already obvious and potentially disruptive. Agents are probably busy right now with all the darft eligible dudes, figuring out training, testing, filming, etc in lead up to April. Purely speculation on my part, but I know if our developers scheduled a call just to tell me "We're not ready to begin work on the project, but in the near future we will want to get together to discuss your needs" I'd be cheesed that I stopped my current work for ultimately unproductive use of time.

Had he done so there wouldn't be any of this hoopla about "they haven't even spoken about it" going on. 2 minutes on the phone saves face at the press conference and prevents the player's team's public response in that case. It's the managing of that sort of reputation that is Baalke's undoing, he's not good with the EQ part of the job. It's why people see him as unlikeable and are willing to accept all the gossip about him and his relationships with staff and other GMs like the last 2 drafts. I appreciate your own situation, but I just think the white glove work is more necessary when publicly courting an individual for a $!00 million dollar deal.

(02-06-2024, 11:03 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2024, 02:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]He deserves at least $20M guaranteed per year.  Put some incentives and voidables on top of that.

Astrophysicist that one day discovers the link between quantum physics and Einsteins general relativity: 80,000 a year.

Guy that plays a child's game: 20,000,000 a year.

Society has lost its way

If the Astrophysicist generated billions in TV deals, they might have a claim to stake on some of that revenue.  If you don't like it, don't tune in to the games, and donate to your local universities' science programs.

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...6704914779

So what does mean if they go after Hunter? They can't possibly get both am i crazy??

(02-06-2024, 11:03 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-02-2024, 02:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]He deserves at least $20M guaranteed per year.  Put some incentives and voidables on top of that.

Astrophysicist that one day discovers the link between quantum physics and Einsteins general relativity: 80,000 a year.

Guy that plays a child's game: 20,000,000 a year.

Society has lost its way

The scientist who does that will probably win the Nobel among other awards. If still alive to see it prove, he will net millions in speaking engagements and book deals and possible some bio pic. He will get things named after him and his legacy will live on for a few hundred years though a subset of the general population.

Any great but not HoF level football player will have enough to set up their family with wealth to last a few generations, depending on how things play out may struggle to find a career they like post football. And their legacy will mostly live on through their close family and friends.

Both people would have had successful and laudable lives. Just depends on they wanted in life. Every decision, career, etc has trade offs, and sometimes those are chosen by whatever gifts you are born with and honed.

(02-25-2024, 09:38 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...6704914779

So what does mean if they go after Hunter? They can't possibly get both am i crazy??

Tag and sign Hunter but don't see how both are kept unless they tag Allen 2 times (can they still do that?)

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(02-25-2024, 09:38 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...6704914779

So what does mean if they go after Hunter? They can't possibly get both am i crazy??

What is this BS ([BLEEP] Baalke clown)? I like Hunter but he will be 30yo and Allen will be 27yo. Stop the bs Baalke and give Allen his money. And no, I don't want both! we need help on other areas OL, DT, etc.

Could just be more posturing to get Allen to accept less and to expedite arriving at a deal prior to free agency. 

Baalke to Josh:  "We'll tag you, then sign Hunter and give him your bag.  Then we'll tag you again next year.  Or.. and hear me out.. you take the 5 year $125 million dollar offer with $75 million guaranteed that's currently on the table and you and your great great great grand children are set for life."






With free agency not started yet and with Ridley potentially about to test it, such an "in the public eye" negotiating tactic wouldn't surprise me.

Or they could genuinely be interested in adding Hunter for an endless buffet of pass rushers.  You really can't have too many of them aside from it potentially coming at the expense of not filling a hole elsewhere.

(02-27-2024, 11:03 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Could just be more posturing to get Allen to accept less and to expedite arriving at a deal prior to free agency. 

Baalke to Josh:  "We'll tag you, then sign Hunter and give him your bag.  Then we'll tag you again next year.  Or.. and hear me out.. you take the 5 year $125 million dollar offer with $75 million guaranteed that's currently on the table and you and your great great great grand children are set for life."

With free agency not started yet and with Ridley potentially about to test it, such an "in the public eye" negotiating tactic wouldn't surprise me.

Or they could genuinely be interested in adding Hunter for an endless buffet of pass rushers.  You really can't have too many of them aside from it potentially coming at the expense of not filling a hole elsewhere.

Well the video I posted Wiggs said he has heard Baalke sees Josh as a #2 DE

We'll see I guess..

(02-27-2024, 12:51 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-27-2024, 11:03 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Could just be more posturing to get Allen to accept less and to expedite arriving at a deal prior to free agency. 

Baalke to Josh:  "We'll tag you, then sign Hunter and give him your bag.  Then we'll tag you again next year.  Or.. and hear me out.. you take the 5 year $125 million dollar offer with $75 million guaranteed that's currently on the table and you and your great great great grand children are set for life."

With free agency not started yet and with Ridley potentially about to test it, such an "in the public eye" negotiating tactic wouldn't surprise me.

Or they could genuinely be interested in adding Hunter for an endless buffet of pass rushers.  You really can't have too many of them aside from it potentially coming at the expense of not filling a hole elsewhere.

Well the video I posted Wiggs said he has heard Baalke sees Josh as a #2 DE

We'll see I guess..

Which makes no sense because Allen has been listed as an OLB, not a DE, for the past two or three years. There's a difference with those positions and it directly impacts your market value when contract talks come up. 

The tinhorns pulled some sly [BLEEP] like this years ago with Clowney when they tried to short pay him by tagging him as an OLB Vs. DE or vise versa and the difference was about $5M. His snap counts, sack total and overall success rates were found to favor the DE position more so than the OLB position and they said "[BLEEP] it, we'll screw him over anyway".

It's kind of similar to how tricky it was with Deebo Samuel and the 49ers when his contract extension and negotiations came up a year or two ago. Because of his duality and ability to be just as effective as a runner out of the backfield Vs. as a pass catcher. 

Regardless of Baalke's views. Production is production. On a poverty franchise that has lacked consistent, reliable and overall GOOD pass rushers for YEARS, he's a [BLEEP] fool to toy around with this situation, both, publicly and privately.

(02-27-2024, 10:38 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-25-2024, 09:38 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...6704914779

So what does mean if they go after Hunter? They can't possibly get both am i crazy??

What is this BS ([BLEEP] Baalke clown)? I like Hunter but he will be 30yo and Allen will be 27yo. Stop the bs Baalke and give Allen his money. And no, I don't want both! we need help on other areas OL, DT, etc.

Just a rumor that the sides are in touch.

Baalke said today they've met with Allen's agent and were scheduled for another meeting today. 

If either side is gaming to push numbers up or down - it will likely be from Allen's camp IMO. (based on what I read about his agent)

(02-27-2024, 10:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-27-2024, 10:38 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]What is this BS ([BLEEP] Baalke clown)? I like Hunter but he will be 30yo and Allen will be 27yo. Stop the bs Baalke and give Allen his money. And no, I don't want both! we need help on other areas OL, DT, etc.

Just a rumor that the sides are in touch.

Baalke said today they've met with Allen's agent and were scheduled for another meeting today. 

If either side is gaming to push numbers up or down - it will likely be from Allen's camp IMO. (based on what I read about his agent)

news of the cap making an unexpected jump up probably got his agent all kinds of hot and bothered.

(02-28-2024, 08:45 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-27-2024, 10:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just a rumor that the sides are in touch.

Baalke said today they've met with Allen's agent and were scheduled for another meeting today. 

If either side is gaming to push numbers up or down - it will likely be from Allen's camp IMO. (based on what I read about his agent)

news of the cap making an unexpected jump up probably got his agent all kinds of hot and bothered.

It may make negotiation more difficult or have us see some higher than expected contract numbers.  Agents are going to be pushing the narrative that the cap will continue to go up 10+% per year moving forward and that matters in contracts that go out several years.  Was this an outlier year or should we be expecting 10+% increases annually moving forward?

Can you imagine what the cream of the crop NFL player salaries are going to look like in 10 years?

(02-28-2024, 10:35 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-28-2024, 08:45 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]news of the cap making an unexpected jump up probably got his agent all kinds of hot and bothered.

It may make negotiation more difficult or have us see some higher than expected contract numbers.  Agents are going to be pushing the narrative that the cap will continue to go up 10+% per year moving forward and that matters in contracts that go out several years.  Was this an outlier year or should we be expecting 10+% increases annually moving forward?

Can you imagine what the cream of the crop NFL player salaries are going to look like in 10 years?

(02-27-2024, 12:42 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-25-2024, 09:38 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...6704914779

So what does mean if they go after Hunter? They can't possibly get both am i crazy??

Tag and sign Hunter but don't see how both are kept unless they tag Allen 2 times (can they still do that?)

Yes they can, but it's expensive.  You would have to pay Allen the average of the top 5 salaries at his position in 2024.  The next year you have to give him (at a minimum) a 20% raise.  The third year for all reasonable purposes is a no go, you would have to pay him the average of the top 5 salaries of ALL players (QBs.)