(04-10-2024, 08:30 AM)MikePete54 Wrote: [ -> ]Almost same deal than Brian Burns. Good for him.
Good job by Baalke.
...wait, I thought he was incompetent?
I am so cornfused
(04-10-2024, 08:36 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]I guess I'm getting old but these salaries are insane. But relative to the other guys, Josh earned it. Nice to have him wrapped up for the next 5 years.
....kinda makes you wish you pursued a career in athlete representation, dunnit?
I know I ain't got the chops to play, but I have a feeling I could lawya the poop out of a contract's terms
(04-10-2024, 10:51 AM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Just a question..
Since they placed the tag on Allen and then signed him to a long term contract, can they reuse that tag on another player instead now?
I believe the deadline elapsed. But in the most technical sense, yes, we can use the tag on another player, but we have to wait till next offseason.
(04-10-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Got it done before camp, cleared some cap space and didn’t break the bank. Good thing the darft is in a few weeks otherwise we’d have nothing to wring our hands about.
give it time, I am sure someone will find a way to get arrested
Maybe Cooke has a few library books that have been overdue since 2011.
(04-10-2024, 03:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2024, 03:27 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm reading the tea leave- errr- tar and feathers correctly amongst our quick to anger base, Baakle too FOREVER to get this deal done.
(even though it got done long before the first minicamp, before the draft, and months ahead of camp when a holdout might have even slightly mattered)
Had it been done last year it would've been cheaper and we would've kept Ridley. That's all that even bothers me about it.
Only the bold is necessarily true.
(04-11-2024, 07:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2024, 01:33 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Got it done before camp, cleared some cap space and didn’t break the bank. Good thing the darft is in a few weeks otherwise we’d have nothing to wring our hands about.
give it time, I am sure someone will find a way to get arrested
Maybe Cooke has a few library books that have been overdue since 2011.
(04-10-2024, 03:41 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Had it been done last year it would've been cheaper and we would've kept Ridley. That's all that even bothers me about it.
Only the bold is necessarily true.
The tag makes it much more likely for sure. Whether or not we would use it is an unknown. Maybe they just weren't happy with Ridley and didn't care to keep him, but it didn't seem way based on how they acted. I think they just got snookered by the tittians.
(04-11-2024, 08:45 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 07:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]give it time, I am sure someone will find a way to get arrested
Maybe Cooke has a few library books that have been overdue since 2011.
Only the bold is necessarily true.
The tag makes it much more likely for sure. Whether or not we would use it is an unknown. Maybe they just weren't happy with Ridley and didn't care to keep him, but it didn't seem way based on how they acted. I think they just got snookered by the tittians.
This is the most likely scenario.
They had a deal in place and he was ready to sign but the tacks came outta no where and offered him a lot of guaranteed money. They still would have been able to sign Armstead too.
Could be a blessing in disguise if they now feel like a trade up for Odunze or Nabers is necessary. Lots of rumors floating around that once MHJ gets drafted, Jags will be possibly be looking to move up into the top 10.
(04-10-2024, 11:38 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2024, 09:13 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]How is that not blaming Baalke? And this goes back to my very first response. How do you know HE beat around the bush? You don’t.
Well he refuses to negotiate contracts during the season. That's his own policy, not one from ownership.
A month after the season's end, he still hadn't even begun negotiations, to the point that Allen's camp was reportedly upset about him guaranteeing that Josh would be a Jag.
The use of the tag prevented us from using it on Ridley, who supposedly planned to sign with us until the tacks offered a number we (wisely) wouldn't match.
It's pretty obvious that Baalke took his time on this one. That said, it thankfully got done.
I've heard a lot of players say they don't want to negotiate a new contract during the season, because it's a big distraction. It's very possible Baalke feels the same way. The season is for playing football. Contract stuff should be in the offseason. It seems pretty reasonable to me.
(04-11-2024, 09:36 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2024, 11:38 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ]Well he refuses to negotiate contracts during the season. That's his own policy, not one from ownership.
A month after the season's end, he still hadn't even begun negotiations, to the point that Allen's camp was reportedly upset about him guaranteeing that Josh would be a Jag.
The use of the tag prevented us from using it on Ridley, who supposedly planned to sign with us until the tacks offered a number we (wisely) wouldn't match.
It's pretty obvious that Baalke took his time on this one. That said, it thankfully got done.
I've heard a lot of players say they don't want to negotiate a new contract during the season, because it's a big distraction. It's very possible Baalke feels the same way. The season is for playing football. Contract stuff should be in the offseason. It seems pretty reasonable to me.
Those players mean when they're still playing. Josh was done for a while at that point
(04-11-2024, 09:52 AM)snarkyguy_he_him_his Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 09:36 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I've heard a lot of players say they don't want to negotiate a new contract during the season, because it's a big distraction. It's very possible Baalke feels the same way. The season is for playing football. Contract stuff should be in the offseason. It seems pretty reasonable to me.
Those players mean when they're still playing. Josh was done for a while at that point
The time from the last game until free agency starts is an exclusive access period for negotiations. It amazes me that he waited on both Engram and Allen in consecutive years.
Folks still just assuming Allen's agent ever had any intention of signing a deal prior to letting the 2024 edge market play out, I see.
Maybe, maybe not. Seems unwise to assume.
Allen signing prior to the tag deadline was always a pipedream IMO
(04-11-2024, 10:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Folks still just assuming Allen's agent ever had any intention of signing a deal prior to letting the 2024 edge market play out, I see.
Maybe, maybe not. Seems unwise to assume.
Allen signing prior to the tag deadline was always a pipedream IMO
It’s still Baalke’s fault.
Unless something good happens…
(04-11-2024, 08:45 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 07:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]give it time, I am sure someone will find a way to get arrested
Maybe Cooke has a few library books that have been overdue since 2011.
Only the bold is necessarily true.
The tag makes it much more likely for sure. Whether or not we would use it is an unknown. Maybe they just weren't happy with Ridley and didn't care to keep him, but it didn't seem way based on how they acted. I think they just got snookered by the tittians.
The tittians snookered themselves at that price along with having a big question mark at QB given his small sample size. I guess he'll have no excuses and they'll know sooner rather than later whether they have a guy they can build around.
(04-11-2024, 10:41 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 08:45 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The tag makes it much more likely for sure. Whether or not we would use it is an unknown. Maybe they just weren't happy with Ridley and didn't care to keep him, but it didn't seem way based on how they acted. I think they just got snookered by the tittians.
The tittians snookered themselves at that price along with having a big question mark at QB given his small sample size. I guess he'll have no excuses and they'll know sooner rather than later whether they have a guy they can build around.
Agree with this, and i actually dont think we were that interested in Ridley moving forward. Tagging Allen initially instead of Ridley seems to bear this out. We must have seen something in season that we didnt like. I think the signing backfires on the Tacks.
(04-11-2024, 11:35 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 10:41 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]The tittians snookered themselves at that price along with having a big question mark at QB given his small sample size. I guess he'll have no excuses and they'll know sooner rather than later whether they have a guy they can build around.
Agree with this, and i actually dont think we were that interested in Ridley moving forward. Tagging Allen initially instead of Ridley seems to bear this out. We must have seen something in season that we didnt like. I think the signing backfires on the Tacks.
This feels like the rationalization of a scorned woman. It's much more plausible that Baalke followed his own historical behavior pattern and didn't talk to Allen before tagging him thinking that Ridley would hang around and re-sign in free agency.
(04-11-2024, 10:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Folks still just assuming Allen's agent ever had any intention of signing a deal prior to letting the 2024 edge market play out, I see.
Maybe, maybe not. Seems unwise to assume.
Allen signing prior to the tag deadline was always a pipedream IMO
You honestly think that if the offer he signed was on the table he would've walked away from it?
(04-11-2024, 12:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 11:35 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with this, and i actually dont think we were that interested in Ridley moving forward. Tagging Allen initially instead of Ridley seems to bear this out. We must have seen something in season that we didnt like. I think the signing backfires on the Tacks.
This feels like the rationalization of a scorned woman. It's much more plausible that Baalke followed his own historical behavior pattern and didn't talk to Allen before tagging him thinking that Ridley would hang around and re-sign in free agency.
(04-11-2024, 10:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Folks still just assuming Allen's agent ever had any intention of signing a deal prior to letting the 2024 edge market play out, I see.
Maybe, maybe not. Seems unwise to assume.
Allen signing prior to the tag deadline was always a pipedream IMO
You honestly think that if the offer he signed was on the table he would've walked away from it?
I honestly think I don't know whether or not his agent wanted to see what the market bore out before doing anything.
It's a common negotiating tactic. So that may have been the plan - and it may have been known by our FO.
We can't know unless someone spills the beans.
It's also pretty common not to begin a negotiation with the highest offer you are comfortable with which is likely near where this ended up for the Jags.
So - I find the notion that Jags should have
begun the talks by offering ~30 mil per year and crossing their fingers that the agent would advise Allen to sign prior to the tag deadline - I find that notion to be a pipe dream.
I think the likelihood of those stars aligning to be a very low probability. Yet everyone acts as if we have ruined everything because it didn't happen.
I also think that if we get decent production out of Davis and add a receiver before day 3 - we may be better off than had we paid Ridley what it would have cost to keep him.
(04-11-2024, 09:00 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 08:45 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The tag makes it much more likely for sure. Whether or not we would use it is an unknown. Maybe they just weren't happy with Ridley and didn't care to keep him, but it didn't seem way based on how they acted. I think they just got snookered by the tittians.
This is the most likely scenario.
They had a deal in place and he was ready to sign but the tacks came outta no where and offered him a lot of guaranteed money. They still would have been able to sign Armstead too.
Could be a blessing in disguise if they now feel like a trade up for Odunze or Nabers is necessary. Lots of rumors floating around that once MHJ gets drafted, Jags will be possibly be looking to move up into the top 10.
I hope not. Trades up for receivers... Julio Jones worked out. Any others?
Odunze runs slow, maybe Reggie Williams 2.0 with more upside. Nabers is good, not great. He went to LSU, but he's not in the same league as Jefferson or Chase were as prospects.
WR in Round 1, aside from MHJ, is a huge gamble. If they're gonna gamble, why not gamble at #17 or even trading down. Coleman, Mitchell, Thomas, Leggette... take your pick. I think they've all got a shot at being as successful as Nabers and Odunze.
(04-11-2024, 12:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 11:35 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with this, and i actually dont think we were that interested in Ridley moving forward. Tagging Allen initially instead of Ridley seems to bear this out. We must have seen something in season that we didnt like. I think the signing backfires on the Tacks.
This feels like the rationalization of a scorned woman. It's much more plausible that Baalke followed his own historical behavior pattern and didn't talk to Allen before tagging him thinking that Ridley would hang around and re-sign in free agency.
(04-11-2024, 10:15 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Folks still just assuming Allen's agent ever had any intention of signing a deal prior to letting the 2024 edge market play out, I see.
Maybe, maybe not. Seems unwise to assume.
Allen signing prior to the tag deadline was always a pipedream IMO
You honestly think that if the offer he signed was on the table he would've walked away from it?
It's possible his team wanted to set the market but we wouldn't cave. They then seen he was going to play on the tag or take the Burns like offer. It's pretty much the exact same contract Burns got, almost identical with .5 mil more guaranteed. He was never going to get a Bosa type contract but we had to beat the one Burns just got being Allen is the better player. Take our biggest and last offer or play on the tag. It was a good and fair offer for both sides.
The Burns contract was the best thing that happened for Allen. If that never happened it would of likely been a few mil less per year and less guaranteed
(04-11-2024, 12:34 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 09:00 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This is the most likely scenario.
They had a deal in place and he was ready to sign but the tacks came outta no where and offered him a lot of guaranteed money. They still would have been able to sign Armstead too.
Could be a blessing in disguise if they now feel like a trade up for Odunze or Nabers is necessary. Lots of rumors floating around that once MHJ gets drafted, Jags will be possibly be looking to move up into the top 10.
I hope not. Trades up for receivers... Julio Jones worked out. Any others?
Odunze runs slow, maybe Reggie Williams 2.0 with more upside. Nabers is good, not great. He went to LSU, but he's not in the same league as Jefferson or Chase were as prospects.
WR in Round 1, aside from MHJ, is a huge gamble. If they're gonna gamble, why not gamble at #17 or even trading down. Coleman, Mitchell, Thomas, Leggette... take your pick. I think they've all got a shot at being as successful as Nabers and Odunze.
The trade up for Justin Blackmon worked out for about 4 games ?
(04-11-2024, 12:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 12:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]This feels like the rationalization of a scorned woman. It's much more plausible that Baalke followed his own historical behavior pattern and didn't talk to Allen before tagging him thinking that Ridley would hang around and re-sign in free agency.
You honestly think that if the offer he signed was on the table he would've walked away from it?
I honestly think I don't know whether or not his agent wanted to see what the market bore out before doing anything.
It's a common negotiating tactic. So that may have been the plan - and it may have been known by our FO.
We can't know unless someone spills the beans.
It's also pretty common not to begin a negotiation with the highest offer you are comfortable with which is likely near where this ended up for the Jags.
So - I find the notion that Jags should have begun the talks by offering ~30 mil per year and crossing their fingers that the agent would advise Allen to sign prior to the tag deadline - I find that notion to be a pipe dream.
I think the likelihood of those stars aligning to be a very low probability. Yet everyone acts as if we have ruined everything because it didn't happen.
I also think that if we get decent production out of Davis and add a receiver before day 3 - we may be better off than had we paid Ridley what it would have cost to keep him.
I didn't say start at the number, but it was clear we would end up somewhere near there. I'm still hung up on the "we're going to start talk sometime soon" thing at the presser that was 3 weeks later than all the other GMs in the league held one. Everything about Baalke is him making things more difficult than they need to be.
(04-11-2024, 12:36 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 12:00 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]This feels like the rationalization of a scorned woman. It's much more plausible that Baalke followed his own historical behavior pattern and didn't talk to Allen before tagging him thinking that Ridley would hang around and re-sign in free agency.
You honestly think that if the offer he signed was on the table he would've walked away from it?
It's possible his team wanted to set the market but we wouldn't cave. They then seen he was going to play on the tag or take the Burns like offer. It's pretty much the exact same contract Burns got, almost identical with .5 mil more guaranteed. He was never going to get a Bosa type contract but we had to beat the one Burns just got being Allen is the better player. Take our biggest and last offer or play on the tag. It was a good and fair offer for both sides.
The Burns contract was the best thing that happened for Allen. If that never happened it would of likely been a few mil less per year and less guaranteed
Hard to believe since Baalke, by his own admission, dragged his feet for weeks after the season ended. I think the guy just has some kind of Franchise Tag fetish that lets him exert power over the really good players.
(04-11-2024, 12:34 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 09:00 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This is the most likely scenario.
They had a deal in place and he was ready to sign but the tacks came outta no where and offered him a lot of guaranteed money. They still would have been able to sign Armstead too.
Could be a blessing in disguise if they now feel like a trade up for Odunze or Nabers is necessary. Lots of rumors floating around that once MHJ gets drafted, Jags will be possibly be looking to move up into the top 10.
I hope not. Trades up for receivers... Julio Jones worked out. Any others?
Odunze runs slow, maybe Reggie Williams 2.0 with more upside. Nabers is good, not great. He went to LSU, but he's not in the same league as Jefferson or Chase were as prospects.
WR in Round 1, aside from MHJ, is a huge gamble. If they're gonna gamble, why not gamble at #17 or even trading down. Coleman, Mitchell, Thomas, Leggette... take your pick. I think they've all got a shot at being as successful as Nabers and Odunze.
Just say you've never watched Odunze play. He ran a 4.45 40 at the combine....
(04-11-2024, 12:56 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2024, 12:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly think I don't know whether or not his agent wanted to see what the market bore out before doing anything.
It's a common negotiating tactic. So that may have been the plan - and it may have been known by our FO.
We can't know unless someone spills the beans.
It's also pretty common not to begin a negotiation with the highest offer you are comfortable with which is likely near where this ended up for the Jags.
So - I find the notion that Jags should have begun the talks by offering ~30 mil per year and crossing their fingers that the agent would advise Allen to sign prior to the tag deadline - I find that notion to be a pipe dream.
I think the likelihood of those stars aligning to be a very low probability. Yet everyone acts as if we have ruined everything because it didn't happen.
I also think that if we get decent production out of Davis and add a receiver before day 3 - we may be better off than had we paid Ridley what it would have cost to keep him.
I didn't say start at the number, but it was clear we would end up somewhere near there. I'm still hung up on the "we're going to start talk sometime soon" thing at the presser that was 3 weeks later than all the other GMs in the league held one. Everything about Baalke is him making things more difficult than they need to be.
This position assumes:
- Baalke/Pederson considered tagging Ridley and rushing a deal with Allen some priority - when we don't actually know where their value of Ridley resided at that time and whether using the tag to protect him was ever a real consideration
- It assumes our FO had knowledge that one of the most savvy agents in pro sports was, or wasn't going to be unnecessarily willing to rush this negotiation for Allen's biggest pay-day in order to help the team re-up a receiver - or whether he always intended to wait until the other cards were dealt in the market. We don't know what was communicated. That agent certainly has deals in his vast catalog that stretched beyond camp attendance to get what he wanted for his athlete. Yet everyone is so comfortable assuming he'd just sign right up in March. We don't know that.
I see this signing as a VERY standard practice and timely procedure. Sorry, I just don't see what I'm supposed to be upset about here.