Caldwell has been pretty good at trying to fill the marquee positions in the draft.
In 2013, he drafted a LT.
In 2014 he drafted a QB.
In 2015, he drafted a Pass rushing DE. More on the LT and DE positions later.
As to the other positions? Of the other positions Caldwell needed to fill through the draft, he has drafted
RB-T.J. Yeldon
WRx2-Lee, Robinson, Hurns (UDFA)
LG-Cann/Linder
C
RG-Cann/Linder
RT
DT-Bennett...?
LB-Telvin Smith
CB-Gratz, Colvin
SS-Cyprien
FS-Sample...?
Gratz and Cyprien look like disappointments/non answers. Bennett was a 6th round pick last year and is not a starter. Fowler blew out his knee lessthan an hour into minicamp. So to answer your charge about not being able to stop Bobby Hoyer?
Under the circumstances, no it shouldn't have been a big surprise that this defense couldn't even stop a Bobby Hoyer, considering we had no pass rushing DE, arguably at best one CB, a star caliber LB in Smith that didn't play, our best DT was gone, etc.
Quote:The panthers have quite a few older, some people thought washed up players.....of course they've rallied behind an up and coming quarterback who inspires them all.
Going to be an interesting SuperBowl.
The Old Pro that might be on the way out versus a Rising Star.
Couldn't have been scripted better. :thumbsup:
The last we're gonna see of Manning is a Jim Kelly-esque trip off the field on a cart.
@Bullseye - As a fan, that puts an interesting perspective on it....that 10 years of watching the Jags picks and watching them either go down the tubes or self destruct was painful.
It's exactly why first round picks kind of scare me and why I say .....trade down and go where the players are.
Let other teams roll those dice.
Quote:@Bullseye - As a fan, that puts an interesting perspective on it....that 10 years of watching the Jags picks and watching them either go down the tubes or self destruct was painful.
It's exactly why first round picks kind of scare me and why I say .....trade down and go where the players are.
Let other teams roll those dice.
It was painful to see first hand, and just as painful to revisit.
There is an argument to be made for trading down, but the high number of misses in the first round isn't one, to me.
I think there is an argument for getting more bites out of the apple, per se.
There is an argument to take advantage of the depth in a particular draft.
You could also argue the talent where you are picking isn't worth the pick you have, so if you can get a trade down, do it.
But I don't believe you should approach a draft "scared" for want of better phrasing. It's harder for later round picks to make a positive impact on your team than first rounders.
Just scout properly (as it appears Caldwell has been doing), and pick the players.
And keep Gene Smith far the hell away from your draft room.
It makes no sense whatsoever to say the defense is lousy not because of coaching but because of it's missing key personnel. The coach built this defense, that's part of his job. He jettisoned everyone besides Alualu and Branch only to replace them with his people. After 3 years of drafting and free agency he constructed this defense which is missing "key personnel."
Regards.................the Chiefjag
Quote:It makes no sense whatsoever to say the defense is lousy not because of coaching but because of it's missing key personnel. The coach built this defense, that's part of his job. He jettisoned everyone besides Alualu and Branch only to replace them with his people. After 3 years of drafting and free agency he constructed this defense which is missing "key personnel."
Regards.................the Chiefjag
What makes no sense is to say he jettisoned anyone around which to sensibly build.
30 something year old Darryl Smith? Yes, still a good player at the time, but the team was 2-14 WITH him.
Knighton? Inconsistent during his tenure here.
Who else did he have here on defense that was supposedly the difference between a competent defense and the one we have now? Where did they come from?!? I already pointed out how draft failures in the first two rounds left the team devoid of talent.
Quote:What makes no sense is to say he jettisoned anyone around which to sensibly build.
30 something year old Darryl Smith? Yes, still a good player at the time, but the team was 2-14 WITH him.
Knighton? Inconsistent during his tenure here.
Who else did he have here on defense that was supposedly the difference between a competent defense and the one we have now? Where did they come from?!? I already pointed out how draft failures in the first two rounds left the team devoid of talent.
There is a big difference between a good player and a good defense. I'm not saying there was any single player that was "the difference between a competent defense and the one we have now?" Understand the differentiation.
It's a fact though Bradley had 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods to put this defense in place. So it's his defense and if it's void of key personnel, as it was stated, it's because of him.
Regards................the Chiefjag
Quote:There is a big difference between a good player and a good defense. I'm not saying there was any single player that was "the difference between a competent defense and the one we have now?" Understand the differentiation.
It's a fact though Bradley had 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods to put this defense in place. So it's his defense and if it's void of key personnel, as it was stated, it's because of him.
Regards................the Chiefjag
MOST if not ALL franchises don't give a
defensive coach
4 years to still have the
#31 scoring defense in the league. It just shows Khan is more enamored with his global presence than he is winning.
Quote:There is a big difference between a good player and a good defense. I'm not saying there was any single player that was "the difference between a competent defense and the one we have now?" Understand the differentiation.
It's a fact though Bradley had 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods to put this defense in place. So it's his defense and if it's void of key personnel, as it was stated, it's because of him.
Regards................the Chiefjag
Then why bother to complain about the jettisoning of players at all, if you don't think they would have made a positive difference in the defense's performance? Should a new coach and GM not make any changes to a team that went 2-14 the year before they got there?
Yes, Bradley had 3 drafts.
Who did he get in those three drafts that could transform this into a competent defense?
Cyprien?
Gratz?
Evans? No.
Telvin Smith...ok.
Colvin...ok.
Fowler? Not in the first year. Not when he blew out his knee 30 mintues into his first minicamp.
Sample? Not in the first year. Not when he broke his forearm at the end of a preseason practice.
It's true he had three free agency periods, two of which were more of the bargain basement variety. Who did he get from free agency?
Marks? ok.
Clemons? A thirty something DE? No.
Bryant? Another 30 something DE? No.
Ziggy Hood? A bust in Pittsburgh and a non entity here. No.
Odrick? A decent run stuffer...not a big play guy...but maybe.
Skuta? A rotational guy, not a big play guy. No.
House? A good CB? Yeah.
How is it necessarily his fault the defense doesn't have the personnel?
He certainly didn't leave the cupboard bare before he got here. He certainly didn't cause Fowler and Sample to get hurt. He didn't cause McCourty to stay in New England.
Could you argue that perhaps he didn't develop the players? Maybe, though that generally falls to position coaches.
Could you argue that perhaps his scheme didn't utilize the players effectively? Maybe, though how would you explain getting 8 sacks out of a 33 year old Clemons, Telvin Smith's development, or Marks reaching his first Pro Bowl in Bradley's defense?
Quote:MOST if not ALL franchises don't give a defensive coach 4 years to still have the #31 scoring defense in the league. It just shows Khan is more enamored with his global presence than he is winning.
MOST, if not ALL franchises, don't give ANY coach little to nothing to start with in terms of talent the way Bradley was hamstrung.
When Pettine got to Cleveland, he had stud LT Joe Thomas, Stud C Alex Mack, and stud CB Joe Haden.
When Lovie Smith got to Tampa, he had stud DT Gerald McCoy and Lavonte David.
First off, I'm not complaining I'm explaining. He got rid of those player so he could get his own. He got them so you can't give him a pass for not having key personnel or the last ranked defense in the league after 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods. And the injury excuse is lame.
Regards.................the Chiefjag
Complaining....explaining...from a logical and factual standpoint, it's a distinction with no difference akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Within context, the injury to Fowler explains, in part, the lack of a pass rush, which is quite possibly the biggest flaw the defense has.
Fowler was not available to Bradley in 2015. You can't cite the 3 years of high draft picks Bradley had without mentioning he did not have access to that high draft pick's talent for one full season-the only season he could have had access to his talent.
That is patently disingenuous. Injuries happen to every team, I get that. But not every team loses what they anticipate to be their top pass rusher 30 minutes into minicamp for the entire year. Injuries have REAL impact.
Do you think Denver would have had the same kind of success they had this year had they lost Von Miller for the year 30 minutes into their first minicamp? Would they have pressured Brady as fiercely as they did without Miller, who, BTW, wound up with 2.5 sacks against NE? The answer is probably not.
No, Fowler likely would not have had 20 sacks his rookie year had he not gotten hurt. It typically takes rookies a year to adjust to the NFL game. But it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have added an extra pressure or two a game more than we did this year without him, is it?
Who knows how that would have impacted the Tampa game...or the Jets game...or the first Colts game?
You are blaming him for not improving the defense, but still haven't said how he was supposed to do that without the requisite players. When I asked you which players he jettisoned that would have made the difference between a competent defense and the one we fielded in 2015, you punted. As of now anybody reading your post has only the vaguest sense that him getting rid of some players was a bad thing, but has no idea which players lost doomed this defense. But it is within your right to answer or evade as you see fit.
I would, however, appreciate a direct answer to the questions I posed above. I will restate here.
You specifically referenced 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods Bradley had at his disposal to fix the defense.
What difference makers did he get in any of those periods?
Quote:Complaining....explaining...from a logical and factual standpoint, it's a distinction with no difference akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Within context, the injury to Fowler explains, in part, the lack of a pass rush, which is quite possibly the biggest flaw the defense has.
Fowler was not available to Bradley in 2015. You can't cite the 3 years of high draft picks Bradley had without mentioning he did not have access to that high draft pick's talent for one full season-the only season he could have had access to his talent.
That is patently disingenuous. Injuries happen to every team, I get that. But not every team loses what they anticipate to be their top pass rusher 30 minutes into minicamp for the entire year. Injuries have REAL impact.
Do you think Denver would have had the same kind of success they had this year had they lost Von Miller for the year 30 minutes into their first minicamp? Would they have pressured Brady as fiercely as they did without Miller, who, BTW, wound up with 2.5 sacks against NE? The answer is probably not.
No, Fowler likely would not have had 20 sacks his rookie year had he not gotten hurt. It typically takes rookies a year to adjust to the NFL game. But it's not out of the realm of possibility for him to have added an extra pressure or two a game more than we did this year without him, is it?
Who knows how that would have impacted the Tampa game...or the Jets game...or the first Colts game?
You are blaming him for not improving the defense, but still haven't said how he was supposed to do that without the requisite players. When I asked you which players he jettisoned that would have made the difference between a competent defense and the one we fielded in 2015, you punted. As of now anybody reading your post has only the vaguest sense that him getting rid of some players was a bad thing, but has no idea which players lost doomed this defense. But it is within your right to answer or evade as you see fit.
I would, however, appreciate a direct answer to the questions I posed above. I will restate here.
You specifically referenced 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods Bradley had at his disposal to fix the defense.
What difference makers did he get in any of those periods?
Up to this point I don't see any difference makers. That's my point.
He's had 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods and has not fielded a difference maker nor improved the defense as a whole.
Regards...............the Chiefjag
So if Caldwell, and not Bradley is responsible for player acquisition, why blame Bradley for the lack of difference makers?
Bradley and Caldwell work together. If you think Caldwell is selecting players without Bradley's recommendation then you and I think differently.
Regards...............the Chiefjag
Quote:Bradley and Caldwell work together. If you think Caldwell is selecting players without Bradley's recommendation then you and I think differently.
Regards...............the Chiefjag
A lot of people have input, but ultimately it is Caldwell's decision and responsibility. That's what he gets paid millions of dollars to do.
Quote:Bradley and Caldwell work together. If you think Caldwell is selecting players without Bradley's recommendation then you and I think differently.
Regards...............the Chiefjag
You are right.
They DO work together and Bradley has his input on the selections, and free agency too.
Under that rationale, Bradley, then, should get some credit for the offense...right?
The nucleus of Bortles, AR15, Hurns, Linder, Cann, Yeldon and Thomas would also have Bradley's fingerprints on it, right?
Since there hasn't been a defense heavy draft like there was an offense heavy draft in 2014, and Bradley has input on the selections, isn't it possible that Caldwell and Bradley both decided not to place a heavy emphasis on defense the first three years? Isn't it also possible that Caldwell drafted offense heavy over Bradley's objections? Isn't it also possible that a heavy emphasis on defense in free agency and the draft could yield similar results on defense to that 2014 draft?
Quote:A lot of people have input, but ultimately it is Caldwell's decision and responsibility. That's what he gets paid millions of dollars to do.
There it is.
11 Defensive draft picks, out of 25 total. 6 of them have been in the 5th round, or later. It's obvious they've went Offensive heavy, early and often.
I have no doubts this coming FA and Draft will be very Defense heavy.
Quote:11 Defensive draft picks, out of 25 total. 6 of them have been in the 5th round, or later. It's obvious they've went Offensive heavy, early and often.
I have no doubts this coming FA and Draft will be very Defense heavy.
Exactly.
Taking these numbers at face value, let's do some quick math.
Less than half of all draft picks were defensive players. Forty four percent (44%) to be exact.
Over half of that 11 (6 total or 54%) were taken in the 5th round or later.
Of the remaining 5 players or 46 percent of the defensive players taken in the 4th round or higher, THREE missed substantial time with injuries their first season (Colvin, Fowler, Sample).
This leaves two out of eleven total defensive players selected by this team in the 4th round or higher (18% of all defensive players selected; eight percent of all players selected) actually play for the bulk of their rookie seasons (Cyprien and Gratz).
Yet people wonder why we've had no impact players on defense?
The truth is out there.
Queue the X-Files theme.