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I think it's pretty clear now that this was all about the drama from the very beginning.

 

Had it actually been about the rules, they would have actually enforced the rules during the game.

 

Instead, it's about the money (fines) and the show (drama.)

 

NFL has officially become WWE.

 

Except WWE is honest about it being a show.

What happened to getting all the facts first??


Now that the facts are out and a decision is made that you don't like, it's the wwe?


Sour grapes is what it sounds like to me.


The dude cheated, got caught, an investigation occurred in which the key person refused to fully cooperate, and the cheater got punished.


Pretty simple. No witch hunt, just due diligence

Quote:What happened to getting all the facts first??


Now that the facts are out and a decision is made that you don't like, it's the wwe?


Sour grapes is what it sounds like to me.


The dude cheated, got caught, an investigation occurred in which the key person refused to fully cooperate, and the cheater got punished.


Pretty simple. No witch hunt, just due diligence

 

LOL... I have no dog in the fight and don't care either way.

 

Truth is... they didn't get all the facts, which are part of the problem.  They came up short.  They got a good picture, but not the whole picture.

 

Think about it, please.  Instead of gnashing teeth.

 

If they were solely concerned about the rules, all they needed to do was send a simple letter to the Pats.  It would have stated that, due to reports of alleged ball deflation, they would be in charge of all game balls to ensure their proper inflation throughout the game.

 

Did they take such steps to ensure rules weren't broken?

 

Nope.

 

They let it happen.

 

Let that sink in.

 

They did absolutely nothing to ensure rules weren't broken.

 

Why?

 

Well, you seem smart.  Think about it.

 

Not actually resolving the issue was more profitable in both money, and in story.

 

They weren't punished for breaking the rule.  The punishment came for covering it up.

 

And again, if they cared about the rule, the rule would have been simple to enforce if that was truly what they wanted to accomplish.

It's part of the Bargaining Agreement players will commit fully to any investigation. Brady's crime was not cooperating completely with the investigation. Forget about the pressure of the footballs, the dude violated the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Pay the piper.

 

Regards..................the Chiefjag

Well this isn't going away anytime soon. Pass some more popcorn.

Quote:LOL... I have no dog in the fight and don't care either way.


Truth is... they didn't get all the facts, which are part of the problem. They came up short. They got a good picture, but not the whole picture.


Think about it, please. Instead of gnashing teeth.


If they were solely concerned about the rules, all they needed to do was send a simple letter to the Pats. It would have stated that, due to reports of alleged ball deflation, they would be in charge of all game balls to ensure their proper inflation throughout the game.


Did they take such steps to ensure rules weren't broken?


Nope.


They let it happen.


Let that sink in.


They did absolutely nothing to ensure rules weren't broken.


Why?


Well, you seem smart. Think about it.


Not actually resolving the issue was more profitable in both money, and in story.


They weren't punished for breaking the rule. The punishment came for covering it up.


And again, if they cared about the rule, the rule would have been simple to enforce if that was truly what they wanted to accomplish.

Lol, I'm not gnashing any teeth. At least not over the cheater. I'm not anything, if I'm not always trying to self analyze whether I'm being partial or objective. I'm self aware enough to understand that I have always despised Brady and the cheater organization in which he is employed.


I think I understand your point. But in order to not get into a stupid argument that centers around a misunderstanding, let me try to see your point....


Are you saying that the league knew prior to the clot game the concerns and let it go? If so, then you are right. They are complacent, especially since the concerns have been alleged by other teams prior to the afc championship.


So, let's concede that.


I have no problem saying that the "shield" has dirt on them.


But to me, it sounds like you are trying to find a large conspiracy with the nfl, while ignoring the obvious conspiracy within the accused.


The bigger issue is that they have been cheating for a while. The issue came to a head. And while you may be right that there is no smoking gun, there are a lot of shells that are still red hot from being discharged.


I get what you're saying, in terms of drama... I am lucky enough to have a job where I have my own office and can listen to the radio by myself while I do what I do.


My analysis of what I've heard on espn radio and cbs radio is that the nfl is trying to get talking points out that this is not that pervasive. The former players are all trying to sell the listeners on the fact that everyone cheats. The entire media organization that is beholden on the nfl is down playing the cheating aspect.


Why?


Why ignore the wells report? Why didn't espn radio ever go through all the points of the report?


Yes, drama creates intrigue, which creates market share.


But to ignore the fact that the the big media talkers are all former players who deflect the real fact of cheating makes me wonder one thing...


How much is this a media grab as you would postulate, and how much is this a cover up to the fact that the entire patriot organization is way out of line.


I get it, I'm biased on this. But I still an trying to be objective. If this happened to a jaguar, I'd still feel the same way. You'll never see me defend Justin Blackmon. In the same way, there's no way I can side with Brady. And yes, on top of that, I think the media hypes up that dude way too much. He's a top 15 all time qb. He's not in the top 5. And it annoys me that the idiots on the radio and tv keep saying that.


And on top of that, he's a cheater. Just like lance Armstrong.

Dude. I'm watching the nfl network, they are looping cheater propaganda. It's all former patriots and patriots local media.


Where's the opinion of the raven media and fan base?


To me it means that the "shield" I'd trying to control the message.

If I remember correctly, the ravens were the ones that tipped off the clots after their game the week before...

Mr. Brady, we have a text that states you have knowledge of deflating footballs. We are not asking for your phone, but please provide any text message you have in regards to this allegation that may have occurred between the time of "x" and "x"


Mr Brady refused to provide any information....


Sorry, again, it's not a witch hunt.


To me, it seems Brady and the cheating organization is a hybrid of Nixon and Clinton. Both despicable types of people.

Quote:If I remember correctly, the ravens were the ones that tipped off the clots after their game the week before...

 

The clots raised the issue based on suspicions from their previous game with the Pats. The Ravens weren't involved.

Quote:I think it's pretty clear now that this was all about the drama from the very beginning.

 

Had it actually been about the rules, they would have actually enforced the rules during the game.

 

Instead, it's about the money (fines) and the show (drama.)

 

NFL has officially become WWE.

 

Except WWE is honest about it being a show.

The whole investigation is so the NFL doesn't turn into a show like that.

Quote:LOL... I have no dog in the fight and don't care either way.

 

Truth is... they didn't get all the facts, which are part of the problem.  They came up short.  They got a good picture, but not the whole picture.

 

Think about it, please.  Instead of gnashing teeth.

 

If they were solely concerned about the rules, all they needed to do was send a simple letter to the Pats.  It would have stated that, due to reports of alleged ball deflation, they would be in charge of all game balls to ensure their proper inflation throughout the game.

 

Did they take such steps to ensure rules weren't broken?

 

Nope.

 

They let it happen.

 

Let that sink in.

 

They did absolutely nothing to ensure rules weren't broken.

 

Why?

 

Well, you seem smart.  Think about it.

 

Not actually resolving the issue was more profitable in both money, and in story.

 

They weren't punished for breaking the rule.  The punishment came for covering it up.

 

And again, if they cared about the rule, the rule would have been simple to enforce if that was truly what they wanted to accomplish.

How were they ever going to get the whole picture? The Patriots organization as a whole hid the main cog in the wheel, among other things. That speaks volumes, more so then any hard evidence in some respects.

Quote: 

Why ignore the wells report? Why didn't espn radio ever go through all the points of the report?

 

 

Why indeed?



https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/201...pionsh.pdf

 

My reading of the Wells report above, as opposed to just taking the "more probably than not" opinion as definitive is that:


 

1. The pressures measured at halftime were within the expectation of un-deflated balls according to Boyle's law. This is contingent on Anderson using the gauge he remembered using. If he used the other gauge before the game, the one that measured 0.3-0.4 psi lower, then it was likely that air was released after the pre-game measurements.


2. Brady and the two equipment guys made some suspicious comments.


3. Brady refused the request to turn over phone messages.


4. McNally stopped in the restroom on his way to the field while in possession of the balls.


As far as point 4 is concerned, while suspicious it's immaterial if the pressures checked out OK. However, there was an uncertainty in that regard.


 

It was also clear that the refs did nothing at the start of the game to ensure that the clots were not playing at a disadvantage, this in spite of prior warning, along with a time period when the balls went missing, something that was unprecedented according to Walt Anderson. If Anderson's memory of which gauge he used is correct then the clots were not at a disadvantage after all, but the refs couldn't have known this at the start of the game. To be clear here, I don't think that there is an advantage from playing with balls that are lower than spec, but that's not the position of the NFL. The refs need to act as if the NFL is correct.*


 

As far as point 1 above, the NFL did nothing to establish a scientific baseline as to what halftime pressures should be expected. A simple test would have been to inflate several spare balls at halftime, let them sit out the same way the game balls did, and then measure them after the game to see how much the pressures changed. A similar test could still have been done before the report was finalized, why didn't the Wells report include it?


 

*To elaborate further, I think the failure to act before the start of the game by the refs is less of a problem than (say) the refereeing in the Steelers/Seahawks SB. But I don't see how the NFL can take that position.

Quote:What evidence exactly are you reading? It was proven the guy brought the footballs into the mens restroom after they were checked.

Well duh, any time someone secretly take balls into the men's room they are obviously just checking to make sure they are inflated or deflated within regulation. No one does something in secret to cheat. Come on now!

Quote:Why indeed?


<a class="bbc_url" href='https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf'>https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf</a>

My reading of the Wells report above, as opposed to just taking the "more probably than not" opinion as definitive is that:


1. The pressures measured at halftime were within the expectation of un-deflated balls according to Boyle's law. This is contingent on Anderson using the gauge he remembered using. If he used the other gauge before the game, the one that measured 0.3-0.4 psi lower, then it was likely that air was released after the pre-game measurements.

2. Brady and the two equipment guys made some suspicious comments.

3. Brady refused the request to turn over phone messages.

4. McNally stopped in the restroom on his way to the field while in possession of the balls.


As far as point 4 is concerned, while suspicious it's immaterial if the pressures checked out OK. However, there was an uncertainty in that regard.


It was also clear that the refs did nothing at the start of the game to ensure that the clots were not playing at a disadvantage, this in spite of prior warning, along with a time period when the balls went missing, something that was unprecedented according to Walt Anderson. If Anderson's memory of which gauge he used is correct then the clots were not at a disadvantage after all, but the refs couldn't have known this at the start of the game. To be clear here, I don't think that there is an advantage from playing with balls that are lower than spec, but that's not the position of the NFL. The refs need to act as if the NFL is correct.*


As far as point 1 above, the NFL did nothing to establish a scientific baseline as to what halftime pressures should be expected. A simple test would have been to inflate several spare balls at halftime, let them sit out the same way the game balls did, and then measure them after the game to see how much the pressures changed. A similar test could still have been done before the report was finalized, why didn't the Wells report include it?


*To elaborate further, I think the failure to act before the start of the game by the refs is less of a problem than (say) the refereeing in the Steelers/Seahawks SB. But I don't see how the NFL can take that position.

Don't forget the fact that this has been going on prior to 2014.

Quote:The clots raised the issue based on suspicions from their previous game with the Pats.
The Ravens weren't involved.

They were.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115'>http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115</a>


More proof that this wasn't just a one game fluke.

Quote:They were.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115'>http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115</a>


More proof that this wasn't just a one game fluke.

Teams are upset that the Patriots are crossing the line of fair play? Say it isn't so?!?!?! This has got to be shocking news to malabar.

Quote:Don't forget the fact that this has been going on prior to 2014.

 

What exactly has been going on prior to 2014? Footballs were never measured for possible deflation prior to the AFC Championship game.


 

If you assume that the Pats were deflating footballs, then sure, it follows that it has been going on for a long time. But the footballs in question for 
the only time they were actually measured were within spec with the gauge the ref remembered using. All of the text messages between Brady and the ball guys are also consistent with the possibility that they were asked to make sure the balls were exactly at the NFL minimum. And as far as I know nobody has confessed yet.

 

I'm no Pats fan and I'm glad the Jags won't face Brady in their game this year, so I'm fine with the suspension
. I just don't think the decision was valid based on the evidence. I'm also fine with the clots getting screwed by the ref in that game, but in fairness I think the ref should be fired for doing so. Anytime the clots get screwed is good in my book, especially after 12 years of concessions to Manning.

Quote:They were.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115'>http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/deflategate-baltimore-ravens-indianapolis-colts-deflated-footballs-012115</a>


More proof that this wasn't just a one game fluke.

 

That article also says:

 

"Vincent was responding to an ESPN report that cited anonymous league sources saying 11 of the Patriots' 12 allotted game footballs were underinflated by 2 pounds per square inch of air. ESPN did not say how that occurred."

 

In fact, NONE of the balls were underinflated by more than 1.6 psi according to the Wells report, and most of that was expected by the lowering of temperature, so I'd take what that old story says with a grain of salt.

Quote:Well duh, any time someone secretly take balls into the men's room they are obviously just checking to make sure they are inflated or deflated within regulation. No one does something in secret to cheat. Come on now!

 

OMG.   :woot: