LOL
"I had an encounter with police and didn't get killed while begging for my life, so everything's OK, herp-derp."
You guys are [BLEEP] hilarious.
The problem is that we can't go 5 weeks in this country right now without an arrest somewhere going horribly wrong and finding its way to the national spotlight.
This ^ has resulted in a very serious fracture between a very large section of the citizens of our great nation and the largely brave and honorable men and women of our police forces. And when I say "largely" I mean a very high percentage. I'm not anti-police in the slightest. I am anti-wrongful death.
You can stick your head in the sand and say "racism isn't a problem anymore" or "this cop was a bad actor and not racist" or any response that serves to lessen what's being perceived all you want. But it does nothing to address a very real and growing issue that isn't going away by digging up police statistics or citing one's own personal experience with police and/or racial bias.
How you feel about race doesn't matter right now.
How millions of disaffected people of color are feeling right now does matter, whether you like it or not.
It doesn't matter if you think it's only a problem because of the way media and internet function in our current society.
Ignoring this problem or sweeping it under the rug won't fix it.
Police forces can readily adopt efforts to sow good will by ramping up their vetting procedures and augmenting training to avoid racial bias (or even the perception of it) and begin to make some difference in the rift that has occured.
As I've said before - this may lead to some redundancies for some officers in training - but who cares?
Too much of a good thing is OK right now.
(05-30-2020, 08:31 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 08:26 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair, there is very little journalism these days. It's mostly partisan talking points and takes on controversial topics. I blame the media for most of this nonsense, but that's been a sticking point of mine for years.
Agreed, but news talk shows like Hannity, Maddow, Meet the Press, are just people with opinions not actual journalism. They are this forum with better paychecks.
Maddow just argued in court that she is not relaying facts but opinions. This was in the case of OAN vs MSNBC where Maddow said OAN “really literally is paid Russian propaganda.” OAN argued that they are not paid by Russia. The judge said it's up to the viewer to determine when Maddow is giving facts or an opinion. Maddow won the case, so you can now safely disbelieve everything she says.
Anyone notice 95 percent of the protesters range from 18 to 25?
Want to prevent the wanton destruction of property by these hoodlums? At the first sight of a gathering that looks to turn violent pull up the semi trucks and start passing out 75" Vizio's and some I phones and Beats and such. Keep some of the retired police cars to sacrifice to the kooks and let them burn those instead of active rides.They will take their loot and return home. It would be a hell of lot cheaper than the damage caused by those criminals. That crap is after all the sole reason they are there. They could give two rats [BLEEP] about the death of Floyd.
(05-30-2020, 09:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
"I had an encounter with police and didn't get killed while begging for my life, so everything's OK, herp-derp."
You guys are [BLEEP] hilarious.
The problem is that we can't go 5 weeks in this country right now without an arrest somewhere going horribly wrong and finding its way to the national spotlight.
This ^ has resulted in a very serious fracture between a very large section of the citizens of our great nation and the largely brave and honorable men and women of our police forces. And when I say "largely" I mean a very high percentage. I'm not anti-police in the slightest. I am anti-wrongful death.
You can stick your head in the sand and say "racism isn't a problem anymore" or "this cop was a bad actor and not racist" or any response that serves to lessen what's being perceived all you want. But it does nothing to address a very real and growing issue that isn't going away by digging up police statistics or citing one's own personal experience with police and/or racial bias.
How you feel about race doesn't matter right now.
How millions of disaffected people of color are feeling right now does matter, whether you like it or not.
It doesn't matter if you think it's only a problem because of the way media and internet function in our current society.
Ignoring this problem or sweeping it under the rug won't fix it.
Police forces can readily adopt efforts to sow good will by ramping up their vetting procedures and augmenting training to avoid racial bias (or even the perception of it) and begin to make some difference in the rift that has occured.
As I've said before - this may lead to some redundancies for some officers in training - but who cares?
Too much of a good thing is OK right now.
There are 350 MILLION people in this country. Does anyone even try to wrap their brain around that number? If everything is filmed and scrutinized, it's a statistical likelihood that we would uncover terrible acts of negligence in any sector. Did you know a person dies from a semi crash every 15 minutes? 500,000 a year, resulting in 5000 deaths. 87% of those were caused due to truck driver negligence (which is an insane number). If we had dashcams in every vehicle, and the news decided to cover trucking accidents due to negligent truck drivers, there would be SO many people afraid to pass semi's on the road. There would be more accidents as people irrationally tried to avoid tractor-trailers. The odds of dying from a tractor-trailer accident as a black man are almost the exact same as being unarmed and shot by a police officer (0.0000009 vs 0.0000002). Why aren't they afraid of that? Because no one can profit from it. There is no narrative that can be attached to it.
The race issue sells. It gets viewers. It gets people in power. It also creates division, propagates fear, and builds resentment. There are faulty cops the same way there are faulty truck drivers. If you think this is a poor example, explain why. They both cause death. They both are due to negligence. They both happen frequently enough to be observed and filmed. The difference is the narrative (also, I think dying to vehicle accident feels less personal). If you believe cops are racist and want people dead, you will attribute intention to the (relatively) few deaths that occur this year. However, it's a belief. And it's a reinforced belief. There is no evidence that most of these officers are racist, and especially no evidence that the entirety of the police system is built on racist ideology. So, why do people repeat these talking points?
Switching gears, I ask again: How do you expect a human to do this job flawlessly? Vetting and reform are just words. How do you change the vetting process? Police departments already do this. How do you create reform? What specifically do you do? Double the training videos? That's probably the least effective way to reinforce an idea. How do you make it effective? At least with trucks, we have the hope of self-driving vehicles. Policing the public has no AI alternative. It is a seriously stressful job with a high risk factor, compounded by human error. A person has to regularly make choices that I would not want to make. That most of us would not want to make. I know from my own military training how hard it is not to become desensitized when working in a hostile environment. No matter how good your vetting and reform plans are (again just words), you are not going to remove human error and bad actors 100%.
So what if we reduce the number by half over the next 5 years, so only 50 unarmed black men are shot by police each year. Does that stop the narrative? If there's only 5 that are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every other month, does that stop the narrative? What if we reduce it again by half over the next 5 years, and only 25 unarmed black men are shot by police and only 3 are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every 6 months? It's that going to stop the narrative. Is anyone going to care that there were only 2 put on TV this year as opposed to 5 a few years back? Or does the LIE continue. Blacks will feel this way as long there are race peddlers and smear merchants willing to profit from it. That's a problem that is every bit as real as the police shootings, but who is addressing it? Why is that not important?
I like that Will Smith quote that was mentioned, "Racism is not getting worse. It's just getting filmed." I just like it for different reasons.
(05-30-2020, 10:43 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Want to prevent the wanton destruction of property by these hoodlums? At the first sight of a gathering that looks to turn violent pull up the semi trucks and start passing out 75" Vizio's and some I phones and Beats and such. Keep some of the retired police cars to sacrifice to the kooks and let them burn those instead of active rides.They will take their loot and return home. It would be a hell of lot cheaper than the damage caused by those criminals. That crap is after all the sole reason they are there. They could give two rats [BLEEP] about the death of Floyd.
That's not how riots work. Ever read up on the riot effect?
There were probably a lot of decent people out there who wanted to protest this murder peacefully (as evidenced by the video I posted before). It only takes a few bad actors to turn the tides of a protest. There are studies that show that riots have a breaking point. Once enough people (and it's a surprisingly low number, but I can't remember it at the time), humans begin to follow the trend, and, before you know it, you're throwing a rock just so you don't seem like an outsider. People have a tremendous capacity to influence one another, and tribalism is an extremely influential motivator.
This is not to say people are incapable of making their own decisions or lack personal responsibility. I am just cautious to assign motive. Saying they don't care about Floyd's death is an unfair position. Saying they just want free stuff is not helpful.
(05-30-2020, 10:49 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 09:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
"I had an encounter with police and didn't get killed while begging for my life, so everything's OK, herp-derp."
You guys are [BLEEP] hilarious.
The problem is that we can't go 5 weeks in this country right now without an arrest somewhere going horribly wrong and finding its way to the national spotlight.
This ^ has resulted in a very serious fracture between a very large section of the citizens of our great nation and the largely brave and honorable men and women of our police forces. And when I say "largely" I mean a very high percentage. I'm not anti-police in the slightest. I am anti-wrongful death.
You can stick your head in the sand and say "racism isn't a problem anymore" or "this cop was a bad actor and not racist" or any response that serves to lessen what's being perceived all you want. But it does nothing to address a very real and growing issue that isn't going away by digging up police statistics or citing one's own personal experience with police and/or racial bias.
How you feel about race doesn't matter right now.
How millions of disaffected people of color are feeling right now does matter, whether you like it or not.
It doesn't matter if you think it's only a problem because of the way media and internet function in our current society.
Ignoring this problem or sweeping it under the rug won't fix it.
Police forces can readily adopt efforts to sow good will by ramping up their vetting procedures and augmenting training to avoid racial bias (or even the perception of it) and begin to make some difference in the rift that has occured.
As I've said before - this may lead to some redundancies for some officers in training - but who cares?
Too much of a good thing is OK right now.
There are 350 MILLION people in this country. Does anyone even try to wrap their brain around that number? If everything is filmed and scrutinized, it's a statistical likelihood that we would uncover terrible acts of negligence in any sector. Did you know a person dies from a semi crash every 15 minutes? 500,000 a year, resulting in 5000 deaths. 87% of those were caused due to truck driver negligence (which is an insane number). If we had dashcams in every vehicle, and the news decided to cover trucking accidents due to negligent truck drivers, there would be SO many people afraid to pass semi's on the road. There would be more accidents as people irrationally tried to avoid tractor-trailers. The odds of dying from a tractor-trailer accident as a black man are almost the exact same as being unarmed and shot by a police officer (0.0000009 vs 0.0000002). Why aren't they afraid of that? Because no one can profit from it. There is no narrative that can be attached to it.
The race issue sells. It gets viewers. It gets people in power. It also creates division, propagates fear, and builds resentment. There are faulty cops the same way there are faulty truck drivers. If you think this is a poor example, explain why. They both cause death. They both are due to negligence. They both happen frequently enough to be observed and filmed. The difference is the narrative (also, I think dying to vehicle accident feels less personal). If you believe cops are racist and want people dead, you will attribute intention to the (relatively) few deaths that occur this year. However, it's a belief. And it's a reinforced belief. There is no evidence that most of these officers are racist, and especially no evidence that the entirety of the police system is built on racist ideology. So, why do people repeat these talking points?
Switching gears, I ask again: How do you expect a human to do this job flawlessly? Vetting and reform are just words. How do you change the vetting process? Police departments already do this. How do you create reform? What specifically do you do? Double the training videos? That's probably the least effective way to reinforce an idea. How do you make it effective? At least with trucks, we have the hope of self-driving vehicles. Policing the public has no AI alternative. It is a seriously stressful job with a high risk factor, compounded by human error. A person has to regularly make choices that I would not want to make. That most of us would not want to make. I know from my own military training how hard it is not to become desensitized when working in a hostile environment. No matter how good your vetting and reform plans are (again just words), you are not going to remove human error and bad actors 100%.
So what if we reduce the number by half over the next 5 years, so only 50 unarmed black men are shot by police each year. Does that stop the narrative? If there's only 5 that are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every other month, does that stop the narrative? What if we reduce it again by half over the next 5 years, and only 25 unarmed black men are shot by police and only 3 are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every 6 months? It's that going to stop the narrative. Is anyone going to care that there were only 2 put on TV this year as opposed to 5 a few years back? Or does the LIE continue. Blacks will feel this way as long there are race peddlers and smear merchants willing to profit from it. That's a problem that is every bit as real as the police shootings, but who is addressing it? Why is that not important?
I don't believe any one is ignoring this problem. I believe police departments are already trying to do this. I just don't think we can obtain perfection in such a high stress, authority driven job.
I like that Will Smith quote that was mentioned, "Racism is not getting worse. It's just getting filmed."
Continuing to colassally miss the point I see.
Cling to your meaningless numbers.
Diminish these deaths as miniscule in number when that's not the point at all.
Repairing the damage already done is the point.
Call words "words" when they could so obviously be ACTIONS. (seriously try harder on that lame [BLEEP] song and dance - that's [BLEEP] pitifully bad)
No one called for perfection. I'm calling for "BETTER" and "EFFORT."
And yes, absolutely, there is much fear mongering from the media blowing this crap out of proportion along with 80% of the rest of "the news" content. We should absolutely be addressing that AS WELL as attempting to improve our police forces' vetting and training. I'm sure the protests that have turned violent had their fans flamed by news media outlets and social media outlets alike. I'm not opposed to any reasonable suggestions you can come up with to curbing all of the ridiculous flame-fanning. That's a tough one. Humans love to watch a train wreck.
(05-30-2020, 10:49 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 09:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
"I had an encounter with police and didn't get killed while begging for my life, so everything's OK, herp-derp."
You guys are [BLEEP] hilarious.
The problem is that we can't go 5 weeks in this country right now without an arrest somewhere going horribly wrong and finding its way to the national spotlight.
This ^ has resulted in a very serious fracture between a very large section of the citizens of our great nation and the largely brave and honorable men and women of our police forces. And when I say "largely" I mean a very high percentage. I'm not anti-police in the slightest. I am anti-wrongful death.
You can stick your head in the sand and say "racism isn't a problem anymore" or "this cop was a bad actor and not racist" or any response that serves to lessen what's being perceived all you want. But it does nothing to address a very real and growing issue that isn't going away by digging up police statistics or citing one's own personal experience with police and/or racial bias.
How you feel about race doesn't matter right now.
How millions of disaffected people of color are feeling right now does matter, whether you like it or not.
It doesn't matter if you think it's only a problem because of the way media and internet function in our current society.
Ignoring this problem or sweeping it under the rug won't fix it.
Police forces can readily adopt efforts to sow good will by ramping up their vetting procedures and augmenting training to avoid racial bias (or even the perception of it) and begin to make some difference in the rift that has occured.
As I've said before - this may lead to some redundancies for some officers in training - but who cares?
Too much of a good thing is OK right now.
There are 350 MILLION people in this country. Does anyone even try to wrap their brain around that number? If everything is filmed and scrutinized, it's a statistical likelihood that we would uncover terrible acts of negligence in any sector. Did you know a person dies from a semi crash every 15 minutes? 500,000 a year, resulting in 5000 deaths. 87% of those were caused due to truck driver negligence (which is an insane number). If we had dashcams in every vehicle, and the news decided to cover trucking accidents due to negligent truck drivers, there would be SO many people afraid to pass semi's on the road. There would be more accidents as people irrationally tried to avoid tractor-trailers. The odds of dying from a tractor-trailer accident as a black man are almost the exact same as being unarmed and shot by a police officer (0.0000009 vs 0.0000002). Why aren't they afraid of that? Because no one can profit from it. There is no narrative that can be attached to it.
The race issue sells. It gets viewers. It gets people in power. It also creates division, propagates fear, and builds resentment. There are faulty cops the same way there are faulty truck drivers. If you think this is a poor example, explain why. They both cause death. They both are due to negligence. They both happen frequently enough to be observed and filmed. The difference is the narrative (also, I think dying to vehicle accident feels less personal). If you believe cops are racist and want people dead, you will attribute intention to the (relatively) few deaths that occur this year. However, it's a belief. And it's a reinforced belief. There is no evidence that most of these officers are racist, and especially no evidence that the entirety of the police system is built on racist ideology. So, why do people repeat these talking points?
Switching gears, I ask again: How do you expect a human to do this job flawlessly? Vetting and reform are just words. How do you change the vetting process? Police departments already do this. How do you create reform? What specifically do you do? Double the training videos? That's probably the least effective way to reinforce an idea. How do you make it effective? At least with trucks, we have the hope of self-driving vehicles. Policing the public has no AI alternative. It is a seriously stressful job with a high risk factor, compounded by human error. A person has to regularly make choices that I would not want to make. That most of us would not want to make. I know from my own military training how hard it is not to become desensitized when working in a hostile environment. No matter how good your vetting and reform plans are (again just words), you are not going to remove human error and bad actors 100%.
So what if we reduce the number by half over the next 5 years, so only 50 unarmed black men are shot by police each year. Does that stop the narrative? If there's only 5 that are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every other month, does that stop the narrative? What if we reduce it again by half over the next 5 years, and only 25 unarmed black men are shot by police and only 3 are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every 6 months? It's that going to stop the narrative. Is anyone going to care that there were only 2 put on TV this year as opposed to 5 a few years back? Or does the LIE continue. Blacks will feel this way as long there are race peddlers and smear merchants willing to profit from it. That's a problem that is every bit as real as the police shootings, but who is addressing it? Why is that not important?
I like that Will Smith quote that was mentioned, "Racism is not getting worse. It's just getting filmed." I just like it for different reasons.
You are clearly the type of person who thinks the world can be understood through numbers, and you bombard every post with so many statistics and hypothetical equations that they start to become meaningless. JJ does a similar thing. This is just an observation, not necessarily an attack. It speaks to the different ways people process the world around them, and why people on either side of an issue assume the other to have some mental imbalance.
Miss what point? I know that Floyd's death was tragic and unnecessary. I have no problem with wanting police departments to do better. Every police department should be reexamining their practices to try to avoid something similar like this happening in the future. In fact, I bet we will see policies being enacted across the nation that ban the use of using the neck as a controlling point. We should always be refining our strategies, so I'm not arguing it's pointless to want reform.
I point to the numbers to show 2 things: the actual probability and therefore effectiveness of current strategies used by the police AND the disproportionate coverage/outrage is with regards to the issue. That's it. I would like to see media and politicians tamp down their rhetoric. I think it's the much bigger culprit in deteriorating race relations.
As to the news of the rioters, it doesn't surprise me. Antifa is a real problem. I am making an assumption here, but they are the main group in the US that has been comfortable with violence and destruction. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mobilizing at the first cause that can justify their methods.
(05-30-2020, 11:25 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 10:49 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]There are 350 MILLION people in this country. Does anyone even try to wrap their brain around that number? If everything is filmed and scrutinized, it's a statistical likelihood that we would uncover terrible acts of negligence in any sector. Did you know a person dies from a semi crash every 15 minutes? 500,000 a year, resulting in 5000 deaths. 87% of those were caused due to truck driver negligence (which is an insane number). If we had dashcams in every vehicle, and the news decided to cover trucking accidents due to negligent truck drivers, there would be SO many people afraid to pass semi's on the road. There would be more accidents as people irrationally tried to avoid tractor-trailers. The odds of dying from a tractor-trailer accident as a black man are almost the exact same as being unarmed and shot by a police officer (0.0000009 vs 0.0000002). Why aren't they afraid of that? Because no one can profit from it. There is no narrative that can be attached to it.
The race issue sells. It gets viewers. It gets people in power. It also creates division, propagates fear, and builds resentment. There are faulty cops the same way there are faulty truck drivers. If you think this is a poor example, explain why. They both cause death. They both are due to negligence. They both happen frequently enough to be observed and filmed. The difference is the narrative (also, I think dying to vehicle accident feels less personal). If you believe cops are racist and want people dead, you will attribute intention to the (relatively) few deaths that occur this year. However, it's a belief. And it's a reinforced belief. There is no evidence that most of these officers are racist, and especially no evidence that the entirety of the police system is built on racist ideology. So, why do people repeat these talking points?
Switching gears, I ask again: How do you expect a human to do this job flawlessly? Vetting and reform are just words. How do you change the vetting process? Police departments already do this. How do you create reform? What specifically do you do? Double the training videos? That's probably the least effective way to reinforce an idea. How do you make it effective? At least with trucks, we have the hope of self-driving vehicles. Policing the public has no AI alternative. It is a seriously stressful job with a high risk factor, compounded by human error. A person has to regularly make choices that I would not want to make. That most of us would not want to make. I know from my own military training how hard it is not to become desensitized when working in a hostile environment. No matter how good your vetting and reform plans are (again just words), you are not going to remove human error and bad actors 100%.
So what if we reduce the number by half over the next 5 years, so only 50 unarmed black men are shot by police each year. Does that stop the narrative? If there's only 5 that are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every other month, does that stop the narrative? What if we reduce it again by half over the next 5 years, and only 25 unarmed black men are shot by police and only 3 are controversial enough to put on TV, spaced out every 6 months? It's that going to stop the narrative. Is anyone going to care that there were only 2 put on TV this year as opposed to 5 a few years back? Or does the LIE continue. Blacks will feel this way as long there are race peddlers and smear merchants willing to profit from it. That's a problem that is every bit as real as the police shootings, but who is addressing it? Why is that not important?
I like that Will Smith quote that was mentioned, "Racism is not getting worse. It's just getting filmed." I just like it for different reasons.
You are clearly the type of person who thinks the world can be understood through numbers, and you bombard every post with so many statistics and hypothetical equations that they start to become meaningless. JJ does a similar thing. This is just an observation, not necessarily an attack. It speaks to the different ways people process the world around them, and why people on either side of an issue assume the other to have some mental imbalance.
I am not that kind of person. I believe numbers are useful, particularly when evaluating highly emotional topics. However, numbers are also easily manipulated, so I try to only use them when they are clearly demonstrative. I will admit I am less emotional than most people, but I don't think emotions are useless. They are great indicators of well-being of an individual or society. They often point to underlying issues. In this instance, I think the underlying issues go far beyond police brutality.
(05-30-2020, 08:17 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]In Democrat run cities, you can get arrested for opening a business but not burning one down.
Dude, would you [BLEEP] right off with this routine already? Some issues are partisan. Some go beyond politics. You're incapable of understanding where that line is.
(05-30-2020, 11:43 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 08:17 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]In Democrat run cities, you can get arrested for opening a business but not burning one down.
Dude, would you [BLEEP] right off with this routine already? Some issues are partisan. Some go beyond politics. You're incapable of understanding where that line is.
*inserts John Ralphio “The Woooooorst” gif*
More irresponsible, careless rhetoric from Trump. Yes, let's have a MAGA counter-protest at the White House tonight. That'll de-escalate things.
Ugh. Please tell me he didn't tweet what you're suggesting. Also, could you please include the tweet here for those of us who don't care to go on Twitter?
(05-30-2020, 11:35 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Miss what point? I know that Floyd's death was tragic and unnecessary. I have no problem with wanting police departments to do better. Every police department should be reexamining their practices to try to avoid something similar like this happening in the future. In fact, I bet we will see policies being enacted across the nation that ban the use of using the neck as a controlling point. We should always be refining our strategies, so I'm not arguing it's pointless to want reform.
I point to the numbers to show 2 things: the actual probability and therefore effectiveness of current strategies used by the police AND the disproportionate coverage/outrage is with regards to the issue. That's it. I would like to see media and politicians tamp down their rhetoric. I think it's the much bigger culprit in deteriorating race relations.
As to the news of the rioters, it doesn't surprise me. Antifa is a real problem. I am making an assumption here, but they are the main group in the US that has been comfortable with violence and destruction. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mobilizing at the first cause that can justify their methods.
I applaud your first two paragraphs here - but I'll go ahead and answer the question anyway.
Missing the point that it's not about explaining away the problem with numbers that say incidents are not widespread. It's not about explaining it away by pointing out the way the issues are blown out of proportion.
It's about recognizing and fixing the divide already caused by the sum total of all these things -- racially motivated injustices, wrongful deaths, police brutality, the media's "disproportionalizing" of incidents, and the room for improvement within our police forces however small it may be statistically.
I'm just the guy over here yelling, "why is everyone trying to explain this away instead of fixing it?"
(05-30-2020, 12:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I applaud your first two paragraphs here - but I'll go ahead and answer the question anyway.
Missing the point that it's not about explaining away the problem with numbers that say incidents are not widespread. It's not about explaining it away by pointing out the way the issues are blown out of proportion.
It's about recognizing and fixing the divide already caused by the sum total of all these things -- racially motivated injustices, wrongful deaths, police brutality, the media's "disproportionalizing" of incidents, and the room for improvement within our police forces however small it may be statistically.
I'm just the guy over here yelling, "why is everyone trying to explain this away instead of fixing it?"
I don't feel like we're far apart. The answer to your question above was buried in my post: I would like to see media and politicians tamp down their rhetoric. I think it's the much bigger culprit in deteriorating race relations. I believe "fixing it" involves removing the narrative of racial injustice and excessive police brutality. If we could do this as well as work to reduce police brutality (making no excuses for clear violations), I think we'd see racial tensions begin to heal. However, I don't believe that will ever be true unless we arrive at perfection (which I believe to be an admirable, but impossible goal), or until those who are using the narrative to advance their careers or agendas are no longer able to exploit it. The only peaceful way to undo the latter is to combat it with facts.
(05-30-2020, 12:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2020, 11:35 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Miss what point? I know that Floyd's death was tragic and unnecessary. I have no problem with wanting police departments to do better. Every police department should be reexamining their practices to try to avoid something similar like this happening in the future. In fact, I bet we will see policies being enacted across the nation that ban the use of using the neck as a controlling point. We should always be refining our strategies, so I'm not arguing it's pointless to want reform.
I point to the numbers to show 2 things: the actual probability and therefore effectiveness of current strategies used by the police AND the disproportionate coverage/outrage is with regards to the issue. That's it. I would like to see media and politicians tamp down their rhetoric. I think it's the much bigger culprit in deteriorating race relations.
As to the news of the rioters, it doesn't surprise me. Antifa is a real problem. I am making an assumption here, but they are the main group in the US that has been comfortable with violence and destruction. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see them mobilizing at the first cause that can justify their methods.
I applaud your first two paragraphs here - but I'll go ahead and answer the question anyway.
Missing the point that it's not about explaining away the problem with numbers that say incidents are not widespread. It's not about explaining it away by pointing out the way the issues are blown out of proportion.
It's about recognizing and fixing the divide already caused by the sum total of all these things -- racially motivated injustices, wrongful deaths, police brutality, the media's "disproportionalizing" of incidents, and the room for improvement within our police forces however small it may be statistically.
I'm just the guy over here yelling, "why is everyone trying to explain this away instead of fixing it?"
12 pages in and you've still yet to objectively isolate an it. You have a right to feel however you want, but in order to have meaningful common citizenship there has to be a shared commitment to rational expressions of what is true. Otherwise your nebulous "feelings" are NO DIFFERENT or more relevant than the feelings of a David Duke.
The fix to this problem is to arrest and prosecute the cop who did the bad deed. Anything beyond that is superfluous. No matter what anyone thinks there IS NO CURE for the bad choice of an individual. But please, keep on about how we emote our way out of this problem.
(05-30-2020, 12:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The fix to this problem is to arrest and prosecute the cop who did the bad deed. Anything beyond that is superfluous. No matter what anyone thinks there IS NO CURE for the bad choice of an individual. But please, keep on about how we emote our way out of this problem.
Yes, prosecuting the officer, actually all four officers who rested their weight on that poor man, is the only way to remedy the specific bad choices of those specific individuals.
And yes, officers will continue to make bad choices from time to time.
What you call emoting is not intended to eliminate bad choices for all time.
It is intended to help create a smoother social landscape so that future mistakes don't need to turn into riots.