(06-02-2020, 11:26 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]I have restrained from getting into a "my stat is bigger than your stat" battle on here, because, frankly, both sides of the argument naturally distrust the sources of the other. It turns into a pissing match that serves no purpose.
But, considering we have people on here who are so sure that statistics have "proved" police violence against black people to be a false narrative, I feel the need to at least post something (and there are many many more sources I could use here) that shows, absolutely, there is no proof of this. You can argue that some studies have shown this, others have shown that... But you simply can't say it has been proven.
https://journalistsresource.org/studies/...white-men/
I'd have to dig deeper but just reading the article which is a summary of the research, I can't tell if they adjusted for the crime rate. Doesn't sound like they did. Which invalidates the study. As someone above said, you'd think cops were sexist as it's only men that are killed. And you'd think they are ageist as most deaths are those from late teens to mid 30s.
Nothing is 100% "proven". There are other studies that do try to show a slight increase in deaths among black americans. And perhaps the data is compromised in some fashion. All studies are prone to potential errors. But the problem is there are so many studies that show the rates of death by cops isn't very dramatic between races of the victim or race of the cop. The overriding factor is almost always shown to be crime rates in a community.
The problem is one half of the country believes these facts and the other doesn't. If you can't even agree on what the problem is, nothing will ever get solved. This is a problem that will never go away as I see no end in sight for high risk communities getting better. And too many people are emotionally invested to put aside their feelings and look at the facts. We're having all the wrong conversations because we can't even agree on what we should be talking about. And personally I think a big part of the problem is that accusations of racism is such a highly effective political tool. Giving that up is difficult.
(06-02-2020, 12:43 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (06-02-2020, 10:44 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]A better response would be, "I never worried about FEMA death camps, and I'm not going to defend the people who did. I'd like to have a friendly dialogue, us two, but let's be careful not to bring the supposed opinions of others into it."
Be more personal and specific. If you just come here to speak your own opinion, instead of defending someone else's, or instead of defending an entire "worldview", you might be less frustrated. Certainly your posts would get shorter.
Another thing to keep in mind is that all posts here are addressed to everyone. It might entertain me more to try to crack a joke for everyone to read than to get down to brass tacks with just you. There is a time and place to use the private message feature if you want more control of who responds to your ideas.
You are so bad at this.
You asked for rational discourse.
Are you sure that you can accept discourse that you disagree with as rational?
Practice writing a reply to yourself, that you disagree with, but is rational. Can you?
(06-02-2020, 01:38 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ][
(06-02-2020, 01:36 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I know some will balk at the source and/or the messenger, but it's really worth the time to watch this editorial and really listen to what he has to say.
I was shocked @ what nikki haley and mike pence said.
I was disappointed as well. One of the slogans FOX News uses is "Fair and Balanced". This is clearly an editorial listed under the "opinion" section of their news website, and it is not only "fair and balanced" it's the truth (in my opinion).
(06-02-2020, 08:26 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-01-2020, 09:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Complete horse [BLEEP].
He did no such thing-exoressing hatred towards the U.S.. He consulted a former Green Beret-Nate Boyer- on how to best express dissent on this issue and show respect to the military and the country. He was trashed.
The people who who show the hatred for this country are those righties flying nazi and confederate flags. You know...flags of entities that WAGED WAR AGAINST THE UNITED STATES AND KILLED AMERICAN SOLDIERS!
Of course, no condemnation from you or other righties. They are patriots. Very fine people as your fuhrer...president would say.
You are the one spouting horse [BLEEP] here. Kaep openly claimed that Cuba was better than the US while wearing a Che shirt. Maybe you missed that part? You do know that Che killed lots of blacks in Cuba? Kaep "consulted a Green Beret" so that makes it all OK? So now we're having one person decide the way everyone should feel? If that's the case maybe we should consult Thomas Sowell in all things black. Whether or no you believe that Kaepernick was not acting anti-American, there are millions of people who see it that way.
Explain to us just how protesting the US national anthem rather than the cops who cross the line (and maybe their leaders) is the right way to go. To me it makes as much sense as burning black-owned businesses because a cop in Minneapolis murdered a black man. Nobody in this country (well, there are always a few exceptions in a country of 300M people but I haven't heard of any) supports the cop who murdered George Floyd, yet you are willing to burn down the country, a country of people who believe as you do in this matter.
There were claims of people flying nazi and rebel flags at the open-Michigan rally, but that may have been a lie. The pictures I saw only had lots of American flags, you know, the one Kaepernick disrepects. If you have a picture that shows people carrying a nazi flag, post it here. Otherwise admit it's a lie.
And yes, there were idiots who fly nazi, and rebel flags at Charlottesville. There are also people who fly Soviet flags at rallies. They don't represent the majority of people there, or are you also willing to claim that the [BLEEP] hat march was a pro-Communist venture?
There aren't many nazis around these days, although both sides politically like to call the other side that. Any who once preferred Trump don't, now that Trump has given Israel 100% of US support. Certainly the Left has the majority of the Jew-haters these days.
Even assuming everything you are saying about Kaepernick is true from the very beginning of his protest, does it negate the underlying truth behind why he kneeled? Does it negate the idea that African Americans are entitled to the same ife, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, Due Process, and equa protection under the law afforded to white Americans?
[BLEEP] no it doesn't.
Those of you on the right wanted an excuse to ignore the subject and jumped on Kaepernick's so called lack of patriotism as a justification for ignoring or encouraging the blatant racism that afflicts this country.
As for the presence of nazi and confederate flags, the conservative National Review acknowledged their presence, even though they used contorted logic to justify and excuse their presence.
In your (plural) perpetual finger wagging, the right demanded Muslims publicly denounce the terrorism of Islamic extremists.
In this very thread, I was tasked to reject gangs.
No such obligation has been foisted upon the right, nor has the right taken the initiative to disavow the racists-if they represent a minority within your ranks.
In closing, since, according to you (expressly or tacitly), Kaepernick's message was tainted by Anti American sentiments, I offer this.
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/05/29/how...ife-worth/
(06-02-2020, 03:23 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (06-02-2020, 08:26 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]You are the one spouting horse [BLEEP] here. Kaep openly claimed that Cuba was better than the US while wearing a Che shirt. Maybe you missed that part? You do know that Che killed lots of blacks in Cuba? Kaep "consulted a Green Beret" so that makes it all OK? So now we're having one person decide the way everyone should feel? If that's the case maybe we should consult Thomas Sowell in all things black. Whether or no you believe that Kaepernick was not acting anti-American, there are millions of people who see it that way.
Explain to us just how protesting the US national anthem rather than the cops who cross the line (and maybe their leaders) is the right way to go. To me it makes as much sense as burning black-owned businesses because a cop in Minneapolis murdered a black man. Nobody in this country (well, there are always a few exceptions in a country of 300M people but I haven't heard of any) supports the cop who murdered George Floyd, yet you are willing to burn down the country, a country of people who believe as you do in this matter.
There were claims of people flying nazi and rebel flags at the open-Michigan rally, but that may have been a lie. The pictures I saw only had lots of American flags, you know, the one Kaepernick disrepects. If you have a picture that shows people carrying a nazi flag, post it here. Otherwise admit it's a lie.
And yes, there were idiots who fly nazi, and rebel flags at Charlottesville. There are also people who fly Soviet flags at rallies. They don't represent the majority of people there, or are you also willing to claim that the [BLEEP] hat march was a pro-Communist venture?
There aren't many nazis around these days, although both sides politically like to call the other side that. Any who once preferred Trump don't, now that Trump has given Israel 100% of US support. Certainly the Left has the majority of the Jew-haters these days.
Even assuming everything you are saying about Kaepernick is true from the very beginning of his protest, does it negate the underlying truth behind why he kneeled? Does it negate the idea that African Americans are entitled to the same ife, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, Due Process, and equa protection under the law afforded to white Americans?
[BLEEP] no it doesn't.
Those of you on the right wanted an excuse to ignore the subject and jumped on Kaepernick's so called lack of patriotism as a justification for ignoring or encouraging the blatant racism that afflicts this country.
As for the presence of nazi and confederate flags, the conservative National Review acknowledged their presence, even though they used contorted logic to justify and excuse their presence.
In your (plural) perpetual finger wagging, the right demanded Muslims publicly denounce the terrorism of Islamic extremists.
In this very thread, I was tasked to reject gangs.
No such obligation has been foisted upon the right, nor has the right taken the initiative to disavow the racists-if they represent a minority within your ranks.
In closing, since, according to you (expressly or tacitly), Kaepernick's message was tainted by Anti American sentiments, I offer this.
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/05/29/how...ife-worth/
David Duke, Richard Spencer, Hitler all of them FELT the same way.
You dont strike out against innocent people. That's not justice. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Add to that the fact that I mentioned rejecting gangs as a form of self-policing, not as an ideal. I even clarified why it was in there and apologized if the context was lost, and he still uses it to support his narrative. Bullseye is an intelligent dude, but he's not arguing in good faith right now. And, while it doesn't really matter, I was having this same discussion in the Kaep thread. I pointed out the same two things I have always addressed: The narrative and the way progressives shape it. The black community continues to be USED by a people that are promising a Utopia, but have no method for actually accomplishing it, and a history that suggests the exact opposite. Impoverished black communities are a shining example progressive idealism, and the result was brought about directly by progressive policies. The leaders and voices that serve as a mouthpiece get rich. The rest stay poor. There is no way to escape the snare of social welfare. They lose their families and religion. Crime ramps up to create wealth. Status is based on group identities. I've basically described Soviet Russia and all of it's union. Current day China is no different, just we don't actually hear about it. This "protest" has been hijacked by the same people who want to see a socialist US. Guess what? None of this will change when the revolution comes. They'll just be better about locking up and destroying dissidents. How much history does one need to read before they see the cycle?
(06-02-2020, 03:23 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]From Milwaukee
https://twitter.com/i/status/1267474764442013702
Good Find.
Ironically enough, a few years back there was a group of demonstrations and rioting in Milwaukee about a shooting there. In that case the Officer was black and he knew the kid and he was eventually cleared. This isn't about black lives, its about a political opportunity for the Hydra that is Progressivism.
Murderer Derek Chauvin has two homes (one in Florida), and bail is set at $500,000 … Leaves me to believe there are no bonds business willing to bail him out. Any other reason? Maybe he knows the safest place for him is in jail.
(06-03-2020, 10:49 AM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ]Accused Murderer Derek Chauvin has two homes (one in Florida), and bail is set at $500,000 … Leaves me to believe there are no bonds business willing to bail him out. Any other reason? Maybe he knows the safest place for him is in jail.
Presumption is still his right. Until the trial anyway, then we string him up.
(06-02-2020, 05:05 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Add to that the fact that I mentioned rejecting gangs as a form of self-policing, not as an ideal. I even clarified why it was in there and apologized if the context was lost, and he still uses it to support his narrative. Bullseye is an intelligent dude, but he's not arguing in good faith right now. And, while it doesn't really matter, I was having this same discussion in the Kaep thread. I pointed out the same two things I have always addressed: The narrative and the way progressives shape it. The black community continues to be USED by a people that are promising a Utopia, but have no method for actually accomplishing it, and a history that suggests the exact opposite. Impoverished black communities are a shining example progressive idealism, and the result was brought about directly by progressive policies. The leaders and voices that serve as a mouthpiece get rich. The rest stay poor. There is no way to escape the snare of social welfare. They lose their families and religion. Crime ramps up to create wealth. Status is based on group identities. I've basically described Soviet Russia and all of it's union. Current day China is no different, just we don't actually hear about it. This "protest" has been hijacked by the same people who want to see a socialist US. Guess what? None of this will change when the revolution comes. They'll just be better about locking up and destroying dissidents. How much history does one need to read before they see the cycle?
Sure, some on the left are drawn in by quasi religious promises of utopia, but some on the right are drawn in by quasi religious promises to restore a world to the baby-boomers childhood days, or to refuse to learn lessons that Thomas Jefferson learned in his own lifetime.
You see the worst in some and the best in others. Yawn.
I see the best in some, but you're the worst.
(06-03-2020, 12:51 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I see the best in some, but you're the worst.
Maybe. You think you like arguments, but you don't. I'm just the main one here who brings that truth up to your nostrils.
(06-03-2020, 01:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-03-2020, 12:51 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I see the best in some, but you're the worst.
Maybe. You think you like arguments, but you don't. I'm just the main one here who brings that truth up to your nostrils.
Truth doesn't smell like your bull [BLEEP].
(06-03-2020, 01:58 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-03-2020, 01:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe. You think you like arguments, but you don't. I'm just the main one here who brings that truth up to your nostrils.
Truth doesn't smell like your bull [BLEEP].
Some truths do, some don't.
Your truth is you're here for snark and laughs, and that truth doesn't stink. Not to yourself, not to anyone else.
But if you claimed to want rational, point by point discussion, but resorted to one liners and insults when someone disagreed with you, that would be a stinky truth indeed. For you and everyone else.
You are one of the least respected posters on this board. You almost never argue in good faith. You talk in circles and pawn wikipedia off as personal knowledge. At least you get paid to be here.