(05-31-2020, 02:57 PM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 02:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Complete [BLEEP].
I am eternally grateful to abolitionists like John Brown, founding members of the NAACP, the white freedom riders of the Civil Rights era, and countless others, to those whites speaking out against the injustice we've seen in the Floyd murder. But think about what you are saying. If this country were truly governed by traditional notions of common human decency, would their sacrifices have even been necessary? Would there have been a Confederacy and a civil war over slavery? Would the supreme court cases and the Civil Rights legislation have been necessary?
No, they wouldn't, unless you consider comprehensive racism to be consistent with traditional notions of common human decency.
Not trying to get in the middle of this, Bullseye, but do you know of people of any color that isn’t pissed to the max over the George Floyd murder? Every person I know are horrified by the actions of the officers that killed him, and most like myself believe all four officers should be facing way more charges than just the current charges against just one. I don’t think black or white people are divided on this murder. We agree, and also the vast majority also believe police forces in general do have officers that are racist, not all officers … but we do need more effort to identify and remove those officers.
Join the fray if you are so inclined.
Even though you are a Colts fan, you have been a long respected contributor to this board. This forum is open to all members.
Do I know of people not pissed to the max over Floyd? Yes.
I will say this case is a bit different in that there is seemingly universal disgust at this particular murder.
But this is the exception, not the rule. In most cases, there is a concerted effort to assail the character of black victims of police brutality or anti black vigilantism.
Trayvon Martin smoiked pot.
Arbery had a prior interaction with police years ago.
Botham Jean had pot in his apartment. Why didn't he comply (in his own house?!?)?
None of these things had anything to do with the relevant facts of those cases.
While revulsion at the Floyd murder is welcome, iindifference towards or support of the prior murders has long been a harm.
(05-31-2020, 03:09 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say old friend, I am very disappointed.
Tough.
I am disappointed you gave ZERO regard to the Due Process rights of those killed by racist cops and vigilantes.
(05-30-2020, 10:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 06:00 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]No. I'm not going to deny that there are in fact still people that hold racist beliefs. However, I would estimate that the percentage is VERY small. I know people around my age (mid 50's) that have learned that racist ideas were wrong. Their elders (parents, relatives, etc.) might not have. I know that my great aunt used to call black people "coloreds" until the day that she died. There was no changing a 90 year old woman's mind about that.
I would guess that most people age 60 or less don't believe or look at race/color the way that they did pre-1970 or so.
As far as "racial injustice", I don't think that it's a real "problem" today. Everyone has the same opportunity to achieve (or not) whatever they want to achieve. A poor black kid growing up poor in a ghetto has the ability to become an award winning neurosurgeon. - Ben Carson
A black woman who grew up in Birmingham, Alabama when segregation was still a thing became Secretary of State. - Condoleezza Rice.
A poor black man grew up to become the CEO of a major food chain. - Herman Cain
People need to get rid of the whole "victim" deal, especially with regards to race.
Since I answered your question why not answer what I have been asking? Regarding this whole case, why did the officers take the suspect down to the ground and why were they restraining him the way that they were (as shown in the publicly released videos/pictures)? Why is that part left out of any video clips or pictures?
I would put money on it that the reason they did that wasn't because of his race or skin color. There had to be a reason.
And before anyone says that I'm justifying or condoning the actions that the officers took, I am not. I'm just questioning why they did what they did and what led up to it. That part hasn't been presented yet in the court of public opinion.
Your take is nave at best, disingenuous at worst, and in very little sense acquainted with reality.
You seem to think that since the passage of various civil rights legislation, racism in its various permutations has disappeared. That is complete nonsense.
There have been laws on the books prohibiting any number of things from the beginning of time. Every single state has laws against murder. Have those laws stopped all murder? No.
There have been laws against speeding since the automobile. Does that stop people from exceeding the speed limits? Anyone who drives can tell you that is a definite no.
Those laws, along with myriad others, carry reasonably well known, well expected set of sanctions associated with them. If you speed, you get a ticket, fine, points on your insurance and possible suspension/revocation of your license in more extreme instances.
Murder carries prison time, and possibly the death penalty.
Can anyone NOT a lawyer explain the specific penalties associated with the various Civil rights laws without looking them up or without engaging in hyperbole?
Yet despite this, you think "racial injustice," however you defined it, somehow magically stopped witht he passage of the passage of Civil Rights era laws (many of which were weakened by conservative congressmen/justices)?
I am not going to waste my time showing all of the ways race based discrimination persists to this day. Not only would it take years to research all of the case law and post an analysis here, most of you on the right would disregard it anyway (see Confederate motivations).
However I will offer you this article as a small example of how "racial injustice" persists in sentencing.
http://projects.heraldtribune.com/bias/sentencing/
Your premise is troubling on any number of levels. It presumes that because it can't readily be proven on a message board without the benefit of discovery, cross examination, etc., it didn't happen. If a sign on a business says there are job openings, I respond to the sign and make a face to inquiry, and the clerk lies, denying there are job openings available based solely or even partially on my race, without employing testers to confirm that or filing a suit compelling discovery, I've no way to prove that here. More to the point, your attitude assigns almost a "Simon says" or "Mother may I" standard to proving racial discrimination. The KKK could burn a cross in my yard, but because it didn't expressly state "[BLEEP] go away," standing alone, it still does not prove racist intent. It also seemingly presumes, since tied to the passing of the Civil Rights legislation, that because discriminatory actions did not materially affect a right protected by law, it has no adverse effect on the recipient. I assure you that is far from the truth.
But accepting, at face value your ludicrous assertion that most racism ended circa 1970 with the passage of the Civil Rights laws, it doesn't address the lingering effect that pre 1970 discrimination has. A key to wealth accumulation is the acquisition of real property. With redlining, the ability of African Americans to have access to loans to start businesses and acquire houses was constrained. Furthermore, to the extent African Americans could obtain mortgages, their options were limited to areas with suppressed property values. That limited generational wealth. Furthermore the fact that it took a series of comprehensive federal legislation and Supreme Court decisions (Not traditional notions of common human decency or Christian values) to eliminate racism from the country speaks volumes.
Considering it's been only 50 years since the passage of those laws (using your 1970 estimate), and this country will be 244 years old as of July 4, the overwhelming portion of this country's history shows comprehensive racial animus against POC. If anything, racist antipathy is the default-if rebuttable- presumption.
Have things improved over the years? Absolutely. Has racism been completely eradicated from this country? Absolutely NOT.
First off I'll say once again that you are one of the most respected posters on this board.
I think you missed my point entirely. I never said "racial injustice" was gone nor did I say that "racism has been completely eradicated from this country". I also never said that "since the passage of various civil rights legislation, racism in its various permutations has disappeared". On the contrary I said that "I am not going to deny that there are in fact still people that hold racist beliefs". I personally feel that is a true statement. Call me naive or disingenuous all you want. All I am expressing is my own personal opinion and observation(s) in daily life.
Regarding my thoughts in this thread as it relates to the case, I have never condoned the action(s) of any of the police officers and have openly said that at least one of them should be properly charged. However, I nor anyone else in the general public has seen all of the evidence nor do we know exactly what was going on. I simply raised the question as to why the man was taken to the ground and being restrained. That portion has been left out of the "court of public opinion" which like you has already condemned the police officers as having done it for racial reasons. There are simply no facts to back that theory up, yet we have people who believe just as you do burning down private businesses and destroying public property thinking that those retaliatory actions are justified.
Yes, racism still exists, but it's not near the level that it was 40 or 50 years ago.
To me people that scream "racism" or blame it for their misfortunes are pretty much "copping out".
(05-31-2020, 03:31 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 02:57 PM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ]Not trying to get in the middle of this, Bullseye, but do you know of people of any color that isn’t pissed to the max over the George Floyd murder? Every person I know are horrified by the actions of the officers that killed him, and most like myself believe all four officers should be facing way more charges than just the current charges against just one. I don’t think black or white people are divided on this murder. We agree, and also the vast majority also believe police forces in general do have officers that are racist, not all officers … but we do need more effort to identify and remove those officers.
Join the fray if you are so inclined.
Even though you are a Colts fan, you have been a long respected contributor to this board. This forum is open to all members.
Do I know of people not pissed to the max over Floyd? Yes.
I will say this case is a bit different in that there is seemingly universal disgust at this particular murder.
But this is the exception, not the rule. In most cases, there is a concerted effort to assail the character of black victims of police brutality or anti black vigilantism.
Trayvon Martin smoiked pot.
Arbery had a prior interaction with police years ago.
Botham Jean had pot in his apartment. Why didn't he comply (in his own house?!?)?
None of these things had anything to do with the relevant facts of those cases.
While revulsion at the Floyd murder is welcome, iindifference towards or support of the prior murders has long been a harm.
(05-31-2020, 03:09 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I have to say old friend, I am very disappointed.
Tough.
I am disappointed you gave ZERO regard to the Due Process rights of those killed by racist cops and vigilantes.
I supported their protection under the law. I am sad that you would disregard the power of reason for the power of passion. My, how the mighty have fallen...
(05-31-2020, 04:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 03:31 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Join the fray if you are so inclined.
Even though you are a Colts fan, you have been a long respected contributor to this board. This forum is open to all members.
Do I know of people not pissed to the max over Floyd? Yes.
I will say this case is a bit different in that there is seemingly universal disgust at this particular murder.
But this is the exception, not the rule. In most cases, there is a concerted effort to assail the character of black victims of police brutality or anti black vigilantism.
Trayvon Martin smoiked pot.
Arbery had a prior interaction with police years ago.
Botham Jean had pot in his apartment. Why didn't he comply (in his own house?!?)?
None of these things had anything to do with the relevant facts of those cases.
While revulsion at the Floyd murder is welcome, iindifference towards or support of the prior murders has long been a harm.
Tough.
I am disappointed you gave ZERO regard to the Due Process rights of those killed by racist cops and vigilantes.
I supported their protection under the law. I am sad that you would disregard the power of reason for the power of passion. My, how the mighty have fallen...
Yet you were silent on that point throoughout our debate. Didn't even merit afterthought status.
What happened? Did the lib'rul media and PC police somehow censor you?
My posts are perfectly reasonable.
(05-31-2020, 04:52 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 04:31 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I supported their protection under the law. I am sad that you would disregard the power of reason for the power of passion. My, how the mighty have fallen...
Yet you were silent on that point throoughout our debate. Didn't even merit afterthought status.
What happened? Did the lib'rul media and PC police somehow censor you?
My posts are perfectly reasonable.
White lies are lies we tell other people to make them feel better...
Rationalizations, are lies we tell ourselves to feel better.
Who needs the nutmeg now, borther?
(05-31-2020, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 01:39 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Ultimately, I agree with Bullseye, that I don't see things getting better any time soon. You ask the question how do blacks protest? Here's a start: Get rid of the leaders that exploit them. I think blacks need to recognize that the democratic party doesn't care about them except as a numbers game. They need to re-embrace the idea of the black family unit. They need to reject the current iteration of welfare that cripples their communities and stifles their economic growth. They should reject gangs that ensnare their youth and encourage the pursuit of middle class careers. I agree that they should to arm themselves and start policing their own. These aren't my ideas. Malcolm X proposed them. Imo, the black community lost a powerful voice when he was mercilessly gunned down. Malcolm X understood the power of autonomy (post nation of Islam), and would have loved to see how he would have helped shaped the black psyche had he not been mercilessly gun-downed.
First, who African Americans choose to lead us is our choice, nobody else's.
I going to stop right there. African-Americans are not a homogeneous group, and no one gets to speak for all of them. If some white [BLEEP] thought he got to speak for me I'd tell him to [BLEEP] right off. The idea that all black people are or should be the same is ridiculous. There is no "black leader" because there is not united black group. While some hustlers might make that claim, that claim is nothing more that hot air.
(05-31-2020, 04:34 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: YdZCFsv.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/YdZCFsv.jpg)
You and your silly perspective. No one wants to hear that blacks are both the perpetrators and victims of most crimes in America, it's all society's fault.
(05-31-2020, 02:51 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 01:39 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]To this day, progressives (specifically those in positions of influence) don't care about any of the ideology that made America unique. They no longer claim to want to refine the parts that are broken (and there were broken parts, certainly). They want to replace it with what they believe to be a superior system. There are those that believe it can be done via conversation and influence. Some take it too far. They rewrite history, when convenient, and twist facts to support narratives that will expand their base. They change language to adjust the narrative and demagoguery to silence their opponents. In the last 10 years, I have watched liberal minded thinkers move drastically to the left to keep up with the narrative that's being crafted. This gives rise to the ANTIFA types, which is spreading in most major cities. These people are much more overt about their goals and actively champion destroying America. Not only do the appropriate the black cause to advance their own agenda, they undermine good will and shared identity in the process. So, much like yesterday, I believe progressives align themselves with minorities not because they want justice, but because they see it as a bridge to socialism and control. Then, when the inevitable pushback follows the riots, they slink into the shadows and move onto the next cause.
1. You're shadowboxing. Even Marx said that the new society would have birthmarks of the old. America will always be unique even if (God forbid) she gets taken over by communists. Anyone seeking elective office is by definition going for incremental change rather than revolution.
When I point out the numbers, I do so to specifically undermine the narrative that is being spun by progressives. It's not a tool that I wield with the hopes of silencing the black voice. I am just fighting a different enemy. I believe that destroying the narrative is important to healing our nation. Truth be told, I am all for looking at biases in the justice system. I have no doubt that bias plays a role in sentencing. We have to figure out a way to remove it, but it's clear that we are looking into it and we are improving. Even the article you linked, which was designed to condemn bias, made it clear that this is a problem Florida recognizes and wants to solve. Even assuming intrinsic bias exists and is a real problem (which I have no doubt plays some role; it's clearly evident in the sentencing between men and women), the solution is not patently clear or achievable for a multitude of reasons. I could go on about that, but it's really speculative. It's not like we have a clear understanding of how bias works or ways to correct it. Personally, I believe the best way to remove bias is for a group to share a culture, which is why I think identity politics actually undermines unity and feeds intrinsic bias.
2. Regardless of your intention, the sentiment above is "the reason we discriminate against you is that you talk, act, and pray differently than us. So be more like us, and we'll stop discriminating against you." It's despicable. "All you have to change is everything you are." No. So long as they don't hurt anybody, no subculture should have to change anything as a precondition to equal rights and opportunities. A more serious proposal would be something like, the trial judge presides over the sentencing hearing, but the sentence is decided by a different judge. That second judge would only ever read a transcript of the sentencing hearing, with racially identifying information removed. That might sound crazy to you, but asking a whole group of people to delete their 400-year-old culture sounds crazy to me.
Ultimately, I agree with Bullseye, that I don't see things getting better any time soon. You ask the question how do blacks protest? Here's a start: Get rid of the leaders that exploit them. I think blacks need to recognize that the democratic party doesn't care about them except as a numbers game. They need to re-embrace the idea of the black family unit. They need to reject the current iteration of welfare that cripples their communities and stifles their economic growth. They should reject gangs that ensnare their youth and encourage the pursuit of middle class careers. I agree that they should to arm themselves and start policing their own. These aren't my ideas. Malcolm X proposed them. Imo, the black community lost a powerful voice when he was mercilessly gunned down. Malcolm X understood the power of autonomy (post nation of Islam), and would have loved to see how he would have helped shaped the black psyche had he not been mercilessly gun-downed.
3. I know you're getting this from Sowell but it's half-baked. No-fault divorce and "great society" programs hit all parts of society at once. Poor black families started qualifying for food stamps the same day that poor white families did. Poor black couples started qualifying for no fault divorce the same day that white couples did. So, to the extent that there is a disparity of the presence of a father between black families and white families, is the disparity really correlated to race, or is it more correlated to income? Or is it more correlated to generational wealth? Because one federal subsidy that didn't hit all races at once is the subsidized mortgage. White folks started getting them around 1934, but black folks across all 50 states had to wait 34 more years to get theirs.
1. Not gonna bother responding to this, because it's useless, like most of what you post.
2. I'm glad Bullseye appreciates this, but it's putting words in my mouth. I said the only way I can think of to remove a bias is to share a culture. I didn't say they had to delete anything. I said we had to share it. I also find it odd that you said they have a 400 year old culture. They have a much richer culture than that. It's also funny to me that you suggest that the current iteration of the black community is in some fixed state of being. There's a reason Bill Cosby is in jail. It's liberals like you that want to place blacks in some box like pets. I'm talking about them creating their own autonomy and regulating themselves, and you're saying I'm saying they need to be good white boys.
3. First of all, I probably get some of this from Sowell. He's a smart man, I and respect his intellect. You said a lot there without really saying anything. The white family unit has not stayed static, either. It's also deteriorated under these conditions. If I recall the numbers, for whites, it went from 5% to 28% and for blacks it went from 26% to 72%. There is clearly a difference, but the explanation for that could be the rate at which whites go on welfare. Welfare is a trap, and the rate for making it out of those conditions is not favorable. I concede that the advantage whites had as these programs were initiated may be a contributing factor as to why they did not need to depend on this system, but I reject the idea that it's not this system itself that is impairing growth in black communities.
Note for Bullseye: That last paragraph was supposed to go in order of how I think things should play out. I am 100% in agreement that gangs are not supported by the black community at large. I just don't see how the community can defend itself without strong family units with a patriarchal figure. So, when editing, I pasted that last line in the wrong place. Strong family units first>reject welfare>police themselves>drive out criminal elements. The problem with democrats is they specifically don't value men, and, in my opinion, this is leading to many of the problems we are seeing, not just in the black community, but with our society as a whole.
[BLEEP] ANTIFA. Seriously.
(05-31-2020, 06:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]First, who African Americans choose to lead us is our choice, nobody else's.
I going to stop right there. African-Americans are not a homogeneous group, and no one gets to speak for all of them. If some white [BLEEP] thought he got to speak for me I'd tell him to [BLEEP] right off. The idea that all black people are or should be the same is ridiculous. There is no "black leader" because there is not united black group. While some hustlers might make that claim, that claim is nothing more that hot air.
Bullseye is only saying that Last42 does not get to pick who Bullseye should vote for or financially support, in terms of politicians or clergy.
If you met a Norwegian guy at the bar and started talking politics with him, would you take very kindly to him saying, "you guys should have voted for goldwater instead" or "you guys should have voted for Humphrey instead"?
You wouldn't.
Because regardless of party affiliation, as a Norwegian, that is not his choice to make. Also, in all likelihood, you were not alive then, and in any case it was 50 years ago. So don't go spouting off about "Y'all would be better off if y'all had let Malcolm live."
Lame.
That's not what he said. That's not what I said.
You are so bad at reading comprehension.
(05-31-2020, 11:53 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ][BLEEP] all this. [BLEEP] everyone who wants to say there’s no racism involved. [BLEEP] everyone who’s of the opinion that anyone with a differing opinion is a terrorist. [BLEEP] MAGA, [BLEEP] BLM, [BLEEP] looters, [BLEEP] pigs. If something as simple as acknowledging that, you know, maybe it’s not ok for civilians to chase down and murder a man, or that it’s not ok for a cop to kneel on someone’s throat for eight minutes, or that it’s not ok for a government to systematically ignore 10% of its own population, if all of those concepts are either foreign to you or somehow the work of Antifa, then I’ll pray for you, and that’s the nicest thing I have to say to you. I’m sick of this echo chamber. Might as well just call it the Hannity Forum.
*edit: fixed typos
Back up. Everyone, black, white, right and left were on the same page here. Bad cop committed a crime. Step 1, bad cop and 3 others on the scene that did not intervene were fired. Step 2, an investigation was held and the bad cop has been charged with not one but two types of murder to ensure he is prosecuted. What more do you want? We were all in this together and the actions witnessed in the past 48 to 72 hours have set the progress that has taken decades to achieve have been set back 20 years.
(05-31-2020, 07:00 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 11:53 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ][BLEEP] all this. [BLEEP] everyone who wants to say there’s no racism involved. [BLEEP] everyone who’s of the opinion that anyone with a differing opinion is a terrorist. [BLEEP] MAGA, [BLEEP] BLM, [BLEEP] looters, [BLEEP] pigs. If something as simple as acknowledging that, you know, maybe it’s not ok for civilians to chase down and murder a man, or that it’s not ok for a cop to kneel on someone’s throat for eight minutes, or that it’s not ok for a government to systematically ignore 10% of its own population, if all of those concepts are either foreign to you or somehow the work of Antifa, then I’ll pray for you, and that’s the nicest thing I have to say to you. I’m sick of this echo chamber. Might as well just call it the Hannity Forum.
*edit: fixed typos
Back up. Everyone, black, white, right and left were on the same page here. Bad cop committed a crime. Step 1, bad cop and 3 others on the scene that did not intervene were fired. Step 2, an investigation was held and the bad cop has been charged with not one but two types of murder to ensure he is prosecuted. What more do you want? We were all in this together and the actions witnessed in the past 48 to 72 hours have set the progress that has taken decades to achieve have been set back 20 years.
Race aside, all three of those other officers should be charged with manslaughter for holding the victim down while bystanders warned them it was time to stop.
And now Jacksonville has an 8pm curfew. Because the law abiding have to be incarcerated on house arrest while the lawless run the streets. Time to start shooting.
(05-31-2020, 06:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]First, who African Americans choose to lead us is our choice, nobody else's.
I going to stop right there. African-Americans are not a homogeneous group, and no one gets to speak for all of them. If some white [BLEEP] thought he got to speak for me I'd tell him to [BLEEP] right off. The idea that all black people are or should be the same is ridiculous. There is no "black leader" because there is not united black group. While some hustlers might make that claim, that claim is nothing more that hot air.
(05-31-2020, 04:34 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]
You and your silly perspective. No one wants to hear that blacks are both the perpetrators and victims of most crimes in America, it's all society's fault.
Whites are the perps in more than 50% of all violent crime in the above study. Blacks represent 15%.
(05-31-2020, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 01:39 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]Ultimately, I agree with Bullseye, that I don't see things getting better any time soon. You ask the question how do blacks protest? Here's a start: Get rid of the leaders that exploit them. I think blacks need to recognize that the democratic party doesn't care about them except as a numbers game. They need to re-embrace the idea of the black family unit. They need to reject the current iteration of welfare that cripples their communities and stifles their economic growth. They should reject gangs that ensnare their youth and encourage the pursuit of middle class careers. I agree that they should to arm themselves and start policing their own. These aren't my ideas. Malcolm X proposed them. Imo, the black community lost a powerful voice when he was mercilessly gunned down. Malcolm X understood the power of autonomy (post nation of Islam), and would have loved to see how he would have helped shaped the black psyche had he not been mercilessly gun-downed.
First, who African Americans choose to lead us is our choice, nobody else's.
From a purely theoretical standpoint, there is an argument to be made for more African Americans to be conservative. Having been previously denied the right to vote, it only makes sense that we'd use our franchise in accordance to our beliefs, interests, consciences, etc. Not being a monolith, it stands to reason some would choose various political parties. However, politics do not occur in a theoretical vacuum. There are real world concerns to weigh. Do we have a strength in numbers approach, or do we seek to have influence in both parties? It may well be the case the Democratic Party doesn't truly care about African Americans beyond the extent our voting block leads to political power (though there are certainly arguments against that proposition, and that is party ambivalence is also the case for just about any political constituency). But Democratic ambivalence towards African Americans is a far lesser evil than Republican HOSTILITY to African Americans. Had republicans not so thoroughly aligned their platform with the racist/segregationist cause, I guarantee there would be more black republicans.
We must not tell lies, Deloris...
Every Jim Crow law was passed by the Democratic party. The southern pledge in the late 50s was a pledge by southern Democrats to support segregation and oppose black voting rights. People who voted against the Civil rights acts in its earlier inclinations include Al Gores father, LBJ, and i believe JFK. Every Slave owner in 1860 was a democrat. The black vote was largely concentrated in the republican party since it was formed for the express purpose of freeing the slaves and subsequently passed the slave amendments. Democrats who acknowledge that they were mentored by segregationists include Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Roberty Byrd was a grand Cyclops of the KKK and they made him Senate Majority leader for crying out loud.
The "big switch myth" is propagated by a progressive academic establishment that wants to sweep away the legitimate sins against the black community by the democratic party in service of their own progressive agenda. Of the 18 or so Dixie Crats in the senate the only one to switch parties was Stram Thurmond, the rest remained and DIED democrats. The greatest example is George Wallace. This is the poster child for southern segregation. This is the man that stood in the schoolhouse doors saying "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." The Big switch myth would have you believe that he became a republican. NOT SO. And when he ran for governor as a Democrat later in his career he received 80% of the black vote.
In reality, the Black Migration to the democratic party began in the 1930's with the New Deal. During the great depression the Dubois wing of black intelligencia overtook the Booker T. Washington wing and we began to embrace the idea of state intervention to ease the economic burden. At the time, there were writings about how pained Black Americans were to leave the party of their freedom and embrace those who opposed their integration and suffrage.
I don't know why, but i frankly expected better from you.
I might be one. Instead, they embraced disaffected segregationists who continue to work to undermine the very laws that have supposedly "ended racism" as the other poster posited earlier. If conservative ideology/methodology (race notwithstanding) is truly a superior approach, make the effort to convince African Americans. Don't weaken the laws that gave us the right to vote. Don't dismiss the African American vote as not worth the effort. Don't look to suppress our vote (2000 election and voting roll purges). Don't presume we embrace gangs Most African Americans are repulsed at the concept, but there are many who truly see no other viable options.
In fairness, there have been conservatives who have taken a stance against the blatant racism and general dysfunction of the current administration, including George Will, Joe Walsh, Steve Schmidt, and William Kristol. They are to be lauded to at least some degree. However, their current dalliance with political conscience is sullied by past indifference towards their party's embrace of racial politics, and it pales in comparison to the sycophantic devotion to the current occupant in the white house.
Again, you're just lying. Taking the black vote for granted, racist in chief. Donald Trump has lead the most meaningful courtship of the Black community since the passage of the civil rights movement by a republican president. You talk about sentencing guidelines, but you don't mention the fact that the Trump administration spearheaded criminal justice reform. You talk about Florida Sentencing Disparities but you neglect to mention that Trumps greatest state ally just appointed two minority justices to the Florida Supreme Court. This administration made funding to HBCU's permanent. We established enterprise zones in underfunded neighborhoods. This administrations Trade and immigration policy coupled with deregulation lead to the largest expansion in black wages and wealth on record. But hey, they're just the "people who hate us" because you said so? please
Conversely, your beloved Democrats enacted the war on poverty. The incentive structure of which contributed to what was nearly 80% legitimacy rate in the black community in 1960 to fall to just over 25% today. That, not white supremacy, institutional bias, not fling spaghetti monsters is the greatest contributing factor to the wealth and incarceration gap. They also run every major urban area and have control of most of the police departments that we are collectively railing against. Almost ever level of municipal and state power in Minnesota is run by the Democrat party. Every level in Maryland and the Freddie Gray Case is run by the Democrat party, Every level of state and municipal power in NY is controlled by the Democrat party, Eric Garner was killed essentially during a tax collection action. But that's not what gets discussed in these cases. You want to go back to "They're trying to weaken the laws that gave us the right to vote" etc. because we didn't want a baker to bake a cake against his will or we wanted to remove dead people from the voting roles.
But hey, whatever works for you.
There’s an 8 PM curfew throughout Duval. Time for these punks to stop their [BLEEP] holery because it’s eroding my freedoms now.
COVID-19 blew a 28-3 lead to racism.
(05-31-2020, 07:11 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 06:14 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I going to stop right there. African-Americans are not a homogeneous group, and no one gets to speak for all of them. If some white [BLEEP] thought he got to speak for me I'd tell him to [BLEEP] right off. The idea that all black people are or should be the same is ridiculous. There is no "black leader" because there is not united black group. While some hustlers might make that claim, that claim is nothing more that hot air.
You and your silly perspective. No one wants to hear that blacks are both the perpetrators and victims of most crimes in America, it's all society's fault.
Whites are the perps in more than 50% of all violent crime in the above study. Blacks represent 15%.
Black offenders commit 52% of all homicides in the USA while representing 13% of the total population. They are equally likely to assault a white or black victim.
(05-31-2020, 07:19 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 03:00 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]First, who African Americans choose to lead us is our choice, nobody else's.
From a purely theoretical standpoint, there is an argument to be made for more African Americans to be conservative. Having been previously denied the right to vote, it only makes sense that we'd use our franchise in accordance to our beliefs, interests, consciences, etc. Not being a monolith, it stands to reason some would choose various political parties. However, politics do not occur in a theoretical vacuum. There are real world concerns to weigh. Do we have a strength in numbers approach, or do we seek to have influence in both parties? It may well be the case the Democratic Party doesn't truly care about African Americans beyond the extent our voting block leads to political power (though there are certainly arguments against that proposition, and that is party ambivalence is also the case for just about any political constituency). But Democratic ambivalence towards African Americans is a far lesser evil than Republican HOSTILITY to African Americans. Had republicans not so thoroughly aligned their platform with the racist/segregationist cause, I guarantee there would be more black republicans.
We must not tell lies, Deloris...
Every Jim Crow law was passed by the Democratic party. The southern pledge in the late 50s was a pledge by southern Democrats to support segregation and oppose black voting rights. People who voted against the Civil rights acts in its earlier inclinations include Al Gores father, LBJ, and i believe JFK. Every Slave owner in 1860 was a democrat. The black vote was largely concentrated in the republican party since it was formed for the express purpose of freeing the slaves and subsequently passed the slave amendments. Democrats who acknowledge that they were mentored by segregationists include Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Roberty Byrd was a grand Cyclops of the KKK and they made him Senate Majority leader for crying out loud.
The "big switch myth" is propagated by a progressive academic establishment that wants to sweep away the legitimate sins against the black community by the democratic party in service of their own progressive agenda. Of the 18 or so Dixie Crats in the senate the only one to switch parties was Stram Thurmond, the rest remained and DIED democrats. The greatest example is George Wallace. This is the poster child for southern segregation. This is the man that stood in the schoolhouse doors saying "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." The Big switch myth would have you believe that he became a republican. NOT SO. And when he ran for governor as a Democrat later in his career he received 80% of the black vote.
In reality, the Black Migration to the democratic party began in the 1930's with the New Deal. During the great depression the Dubois wing of black intelligencia overtook the Booker T. Washington wing and we began to embrace the idea of state intervention to ease the economic burden. At the time, there were writings about how pained Black Americans were to leave the party of their freedom and embrace those who opposed their integration and suffrage.
I don't know why, but i frankly expected better from you.
I might be one. Instead, they embraced disaffected segregationists who continue to work to undermine the very laws that have supposedly "ended racism" as the other poster posited earlier. If conservative ideology/methodology (race notwithstanding) is truly a superior approach, make the effort to convince African Americans. Don't weaken the laws that gave us the right to vote. Don't dismiss the African American vote as not worth the effort. Don't look to suppress our vote (2000 election and voting roll purges). Don't presume we embrace gangs Most African Americans are repulsed at the concept, but there are many who truly see no other viable options.
In fairness, there have been conservatives who have taken a stance against the blatant racism and general dysfunction of the current administration, including George Will, Joe Walsh, Steve Schmidt, and William Kristol. They are to be lauded to at least some degree. However, their current dalliance with political conscience is sullied by past indifference towards their party's embrace of racial politics, and it pales in comparison to the sycophantic devotion to the current occupant in the white house.
Again, you're just lying. Taking the black vote for granted, racist in chief. Donald Trump has lead the most meaningful courtship of the Black community since the passage of the civil rights movement by a republican president. You talk about sentencing guidelines, but you don't mention the fact that the Trump administration spearheaded criminal justice reform. You talk about Florida Sentencing Disparities but you neglect to mention that Trumps greatest state ally just appointed two minority justices to the Florida Supreme Court. This administration made funding to HBCU's permanent. We established enterprise zones in underfunded neighborhoods. This administrations Trade and immigration policy coupled with deregulation lead to the largest expansion in black wages and wealth on record. But hey, they're just the "people who hate us" because you said so? please
Conversely, your beloved Democrats enacted the war on poverty. The incentive structure of which contributed to what was nearly 80% legitimacy rate in the black community in 1960 to fall to just over 25% today. That, not white supremacy, institutional bias, not fling spaghetti monsters is the greatest contributing factor to the wealth and incarceration gap. They also run every major urban area and have control of most of the police departments that we are collectively railing against. Almost ever level of municipal and state power in Minnesota is run by the Democrat party. Every level in Maryland and the Freddie Gray Case is run by the Democrat party, Every level of state and municipal power in NY is controlled by the Democrat party, Eric Garner was killed essentially during a tax collection action. But that's not what gets discussed in these cases. You want to go back to "They're trying to weaken the laws that gave us the right to vote" etc. because we didn't want a baker to bake a cake against his will or we wanted to remove dead people from the voting roles.
But hey, whatever works for you.
But Democrats pander. At least they give lip service. Who cares if all of their policies decimate the black community.
(05-31-2020, 07:39 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-31-2020, 07:11 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Whites are the perps in more than 50% of all violent crime in the above study. Blacks represent 15%.
Black offenders commit 52% of all homicides in the USA while representing 13% of the total population. They are equally likely to assault a white or black victim.
Just clarifying some statistics in BLT's study; which as you noted, illustrates a silly perspective.