(05-28-2020, 06:00 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]This is the correct response from one chapter of the F.O.P.
https://twitter.com/NC5/status/1266115580442095619?s=20
More should follow suit.
Officers have it hard, I know. The job is difficult and I salute them for taking it on, but reform is necessary to ensure force is used appropriately.
There is a video out now of this man being compliant with police prior to the video showing him being killed.
Whatever George Floyd may have said or did after that which made an officer use the technique that is not taught by the MPD he should have:
A- Simply sought the help of the other officers clearly on scene if he needed it - and/or
B- (and this will sound crazy) STOPPED KILLING THE HANDCUFFED GUY WHEN HE REPEATEDLY BEGGED FOR HIS LIFE.
BTW - the MPD teaches "knee to between the shoulder blades" and not "knee to the neck/throat."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MH5OzEyS1c
The other officers were already sitting on him, you can't see them in the video that is mainly being shown. The video above finally shows why four officers were fired. I hope they all get life.
Thanks, NYC. You should put that idea out to police departments. I'm sure they aren't vetting their candidates and working to reform their practices. Now that they know the trick, we're gonna see that .00000097% just plummet. They just needed to try harder. MILLIONS of interactions a year, and you expect perfection. This is a stand alone argument and has nothing to do with what I'm about to post, because I might be switching sides depending on how the following plays out.
Check out this video:
This dude apparently got all dressed up, smashed the windows across the street, threatened to fight the guys following him, then headed towards the back of the police station. If this is a cop trying to divert attention from the protesters (which I believe is probable), this is going to be a HUGE deal. This would absolutely reinforce the notion that this police department is corrupt. Corruption is sufficient to thoroughly investigate, punish, and replace police officers who have abused their authority.
This would be such an easy case to unite the American people if we could just drop the racial narrative. We won't, though.
(05-29-2020, 09:53 AM)BLast42min Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, NYC. You should put that idea out to police departments. I'm sure they aren't vetting their candidates and working to reform their practices. Now that they know the trick, we're gonna see that .00000097% just plummet. They just needed to try harder. MILLIONS of interactions a year, and you expect perfection. This is a stand alone argument and has nothing to do with what I'm about to post, because I might be switching sides depending on how the following plays out.
Check out this video:
This dude apparently got all dressed up, smashed the windows across the street, threatened to fight the guys following him, then headed towards the back of the police station. If this is a cop trying to divert attention from the protesters (which I believe is probable), this is going to be a HUGE deal. This would absolutely reinforce the notion that this police department is corrupt. Corruption is sufficient to thoroughly investigate, punish, and replace police officers who have abused their authority.
This would be such an easy case to unite the American people if we could just drop the racial narrative. We won't, though.
You’re welcome. Happy to point out the obvious to those ignoring it anytime.
You keep ignoring this reality of the perception of racial bias from police toward the African-American community because you’ve got some number you think disproves it.
That’s where you’re missing it.
Widespread measures to augment the training already in place for officers would be the easiest first step to bridging the divide.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the number of racially motivated bad acts by cops.
The hurt inflicted by the small number of bad actors still must be addressed.
Common sense measures like what I’m suggesting aren’t a bad thing.
This one incident may involve a racist cop and it may not. We don’t know, but not addressing the damage done would be stupid.
(05-29-2020, 07:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 05:10 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]reform... vetting...
I'm still waiting for any indication THIS INCIDENT was racially motivated.
U8
Doesn’t matter.
Reform of force and vetting are still your most obvious and basic steps to repairing the cluster- [BLEEP] taking place.
Reform what? With what? For what?
How are you going to eliminate something u cant identify?
(05-29-2020, 07:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 05:04 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]That's a lie. It's progressive "Disparate Impact Theory" that generates the distrust between minorities and police officers.
.gif "Laughing")
What are you even trying to say?
Is the "disparate impact theory" false?
Are you trying to say there are no disparate impacts out there?
You think every single policy that doesn't explicitly mention race in writing must therefore impact each race exactly the same way?
What % of NHL players are from the state of minnesota?
(05-29-2020, 05:17 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]And how has that worked out for black America over the last 50 years? you just crystalized our point.
So your position is that everyone switching their party registration to Republican would magically solve racism and end use of excessive force by police officers?
[quote pid='1305277' dateline='1590765375']
(05-29-2020, 07:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]
What are you even trying to say?
Is the "disparate impact theory" false?
Are you trying to say there are no disparate impacts out there?
You think every single policy that doesn't explicitly mention race in writing must therefore impact each race exactly the same way?
What % of NHL players are from the state of minnesota?
[/quote]
Obviously a disproportionately high percentage of NHL players are from Minnesota.
Maybe the coaches discriminate against other states, but, the only ones they're shortchanging there are the fans.
More likely, Minnesotans are just more likely to grow up putting in the practice it takes to become a pro hockey player. Did a government policy cause this? If not, why should I care?
(05-29-2020, 11:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 09:53 AM)BLast42min Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, NYC. You should put that idea out to police departments. I'm sure they aren't vetting their candidates and working to reform their practices. Now that they know the trick, we're gonna see that .00000097% just plummet. They just needed to try harder. MILLIONS of interactions a year, and you expect perfection. This is a stand alone argument and has nothing to do with what I'm about to post, because I might be switching sides depending on how the following plays out.
Check out this video:
This dude apparently got all dressed up, smashed the windows across the street, threatened to fight the guys following him, then headed towards the back of the police station. If this is a cop trying to divert attention from the protesters (which I believe is probable), this is going to be a HUGE deal. This would absolutely reinforce the notion that this police department is corrupt. Corruption is sufficient to thoroughly investigate, punish, and replace police officers who have abused their authority.
This would be such an easy case to unite the American people if we could just drop the racial narrative. We won't, though.
You’re welcome. Happy to point out the obvious to those ignoring it anytime.
You keep ignoring this reality of the perception of racial bias from police toward the African-American community because you’ve got some number you think disproves it.
That’s where you’re missing it.
Widespread measures to augment the training already in place for officers would be the easiest first step to bridging the divide.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the number of racially motivated bad acts by cops.
The hurt inflicted by the small number of bad actors still must be addressed.
Common sense measures like what I’m suggesting aren’t a bad thing.
This one incident may involve a racist cop and it may not. We don’t know, but not addressing the damage done would be stupid.
C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
(05-29-2020, 11:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 07:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]U8
Doesn’t matter.
Reform of force and vetting are still your most obvious and basic steps to repairing the cluster- [BLEEP] taking place.
Reform what? With what? For what?
How are you going to eliminate something u....
Even though I’ve said it multiple times for your dumb [BLEEP] already:
You reform use of force because it’s a problem and because it helps begin mending the damaged trust.
(Look at the complaint record of officer Chauvin and tell me it’s not a problem)
You reform racial bias training because it’s a common sense measure already in place for most forces - - and it will be easy to augment with additional emphasis focused around the current events that exacerbate the mistrust of the public.
It’s incredibly simple but I’m sure you’ll find a way to miss the point.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/minnea...index.html
Only linking CNN because it's their crew. The live shot showed the reporter displaying his credentials and saying he'd move wherever the police wanted him, complying every step of the way leading up to an unconstitutional arrest that should be treated as treason. Meanwhile, the police said that they were arrested because they couldn't be identified as members of the media despite having shown credentials and, you know,
being live the [BLEEP] on air. Any [BLEEP] at the precinct (ok, not
that precinct) watching national news feeds should have instantly said, "Guys, guys, they're CNN!". Instead, we get a black, Latino reporter and his crew arrested on air while a white reporter one block away is asked to move.
Arresting members of the media who are not impeding anything, not being uncooperative, not doing anything except their Constitutional duty to report is a clear violation of the First Amendment and should be handled as treason.
(05-29-2020, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You’re welcome. Happy to point out the obvious to those ignoring it anytime.
You keep ignoring this reality of the perception of racial bias from police toward the African-American community because you’ve got some number you think disproves it.
That’s where you’re missing it.
Widespread measures to augment the training already in place for officers would be the easiest first step to bridging the divide.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the number of racially motivated bad acts by cops.
The hurt inflicted by the small number of bad actors still must be addressed.
Common sense measures like what I’m suggesting aren’t a bad thing.
This one incident may involve a racist cop and it may not. We don’t know, but not addressing the damage done would be stupid.
C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread.
Of course the guy will see charges and trial.
I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares.
I don’t care if it’s somewhat redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies something that it really doesn’t.
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None
C’mon indeed. .
(05-29-2020, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You’re welcome. Happy to point out the obvious to those ignoring it anytime.
You keep ignoring this reality of the perception of racial bias from police toward the African-American community because you’ve got some number you think disproves it.
That’s where you’re missing it.
Widespread measures to augment the training already in place for officers would be the easiest first step to bridging the divide.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about the number of racially motivated bad acts by cops.
The hurt inflicted by the small number of bad actors still must be addressed.
Common sense measures like what I’m suggesting aren’t a bad thing.
This one incident may involve a racist cop and it may not. We don’t know, but not addressing the damage done would be stupid.
C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
And how has "charge and try him" worked out so far? It's done wonders for racial relations and equality.
(05-29-2020, 11:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread.
Of course the guy will see charges and trial.
I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares.
I don’t care if it’s somewhat redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies something that it really doesn’t.
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None
C’mon indeed. .
I somewhat agree with you, though I think that there should be more done than just training. I don't know how things are now, but in my younger days when I was a Deputy Sheriff we had constant training on all sorts of tactics/procedures. While yes, training is important I think equally important is mental health. The suicide rate as well as alcoholism among police officers is pretty high (I had 2 that I served with kill themselves) due to the high stress nature of the job. Mental health problems could also cause an officer to "step over the line".
I still think that there is more to this story than what is being shared publicly. There is a reason that they took the suspect down and restrained him with such force.
(05-29-2020, 11:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread.
Of course the guy will see charges and trial.
I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares.
I don’t care if it’s somewhat redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies something that it really doesn’t.
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None
C’mon indeed. .
You assume that this guy wasnt already properly trained. That's not so.
(05-29-2020, 12:05 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:29 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.
And how has "charge and try him" worked out so far? It's done wonders for racial relations and equality.
How many have been convicted and executed on live tv?
(05-29-2020, 11:24 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 05:17 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]And how has that worked out for black America over the last 50 years? you just crystalized our point.
So your position is that everyone switching their party registration to Republican would magically solve racism and end use of excessive force by police officers?
No, my position is that 95% patronage of the democrat party over the last 50 years HASNT magically solved racism, despite what people have been promised.
(05-29-2020, 07:23 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 05:04 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]That's a lie. It's progressive "Disparate Impact Theory" that generates the distrust between minorities and police officers.
What are you even trying to say?
Is the "disparate impact theory" false?
Are you trying to say there are no disparate impacts out there?
You think every single policy that doesn't explicitly mention race in writing must therefore impact each race exactly the same way?
Are DB coaches racist?
(05-29-2020, 12:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:48 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread.
Of course the guy will see charges and trial.
I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares.
I don’t care if it’s somewhat redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies something that it really doesn’t.
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None
C’mon indeed. .
You assume that this guy wasnt already properly trained. That's not so.
Incorrect on several fronts.
1. I didn't assume jack [BLEEP].
2. Whether or not he was initially trained well is irrelevant because:
a - it didn't work - so what does "properly" mean exactly - he acted outside of his training
b -
additional training is what I'm suggesting and it was clearly needed
3. He was trained to place his knee between the prisoner's shoulder blades - not on his neck/throat - this is straight from the Minn. P.D.
4. The secondary point of additional (augmented) training is about community relations which I've repeated a half dozen times now
5. The other thing I'm repeating to mostly deaf ears is vetting improvements - and this guy clearly is a poster boy for improved vetting when you see his complaint record.
Again - what's so terrible about adding an element of training on a broad scale that seeks to prevent this kind of misstep from happening?
Not a damn thing.
And what's so bad about doubling down on weeding out officers unfit to wear the badge?
Not a damn thing.
These are just such sensible suggestions that are necessary to repair a widespread mistrust.
Various departments have implemented such measures before to moderate temporary success within their communities - and this is a prime time for a larger and more widespread effort.
(05-29-2020, 11:31 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Reform what? With what? For what?
How are you going to eliminate something u....
Even though I’ve said it multiple times for your dumb [BLEEP] already:
You reform use of force because it’s a problem and because it helps begin mending the damaged trust.
(Look at the complaint record of officer Chauvin and tell me it’s not a problem)
You reform racial bias training because it’s a common sense measure already in place for most forces - - and it will be easy to augment with additional emphasis focused around the current events that exacerbate the mistrust of the public.
It’s incredibly simple but I’m sure you’ll find a way to miss the point.
If my hair is red and u think its blue do I need to go to a hair dresser or do u need glasses.
Theres strong statistical evidence that white officers are LESS likely than their black counterparts to use deadly force, especially when the subject is a minority. So the entire narrative and premise is on shaky ground, and with all the violence and looting it falls apart.
No one is condoning what this guy did and that's the problem. There is no systemic or political solution to a singularity!
(05-29-2020, 01:03 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 12:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You assume that this guy wasnt already properly trained. That's not so.
Incorrect on several fronts.
1. I didn't assume jack [BLEEP].
2. Whether or not he was initially trained well is irrelevant because:
a - it didn't work - so what does "properly" mean exactly - he acted outside of his training
b - additional training is what I'm suggesting and it was clearly needed
3. He was trained to place his knee between the prisoner's shoulder blades - not on his neck/throat - this is straight from the Minn. P.D.
4. The secondary point of additional (augmented) training is about community relations which I've repeated a half dozen times now
5. The other thing I'm repeating to mostly deaf ears is vetting improvements - and this guy clearly is a poster boy for improved vetting when you see his complaint record.
Again - what's so terrible about adding an element of training on a broad scale that seeks to prevent this kind of misstep from happening?
Not a damn thing.
And what's so bad about doubling down on weeding out officers unfit to wear the badge?
Not a damn thing.
These are just such sensible suggestions that are necessary to repair a widespread mistrust.
Various departments have implemented such measures before to moderate temporary success within their communities - and this is a prime time for a larger and more widespread effort.
There you go again, you don't need to add training when the original training was correct but not followed. Millions of these interactions occur every year without this outcome, so clearly what they are doing now works in 99.9999999 percent of all cases. Acting outside of additional training is no different than his acting outside of his original training, training doesn't stop people from not doing what they are trained to do. To say it clearly, it's not the lack of training that caused this, it was the lack of character of the individuals who did it. Wasting time and resources to tell cops "Do it the way we showed you the first time" isn't' the answer, publicly prosecuting those who violate their training is.
As for getting rid of him sooner I'm in agreement. I want the police highly restrained and completely de-militarized.
(05-29-2020, 01:09 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2020, 11:31 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Even though I’ve said it multiple times for your dumb [BLEEP] already:
You reform use of force because it’s a problem and because it helps begin mending the damaged trust.
(Look at the complaint record of officer Chauvin and tell me it’s not a problem)
You reform racial bias training because it’s a common sense measure already in place for most forces - - and it will be easy to augment with additional emphasis focused around the current events that exacerbate the mistrust of the public.
It’s incredibly simple but I’m sure you’ll find a way to miss the point.
If my hair is red and u think its blue do I need to go to a hair dresser or do u need glasses.
Theres strong statistical evidence that white officers are LESS likely than their black counterparts to use deadly force, especially when the subject is a minority. So the entire narrative and premise is on shaky ground, and with all the violence and looting it falls apart.
No one is condoning what this guy did and that's the problem. There is no systemic or political solution to a singularity!
How in the world can you consider this a singularity?
The Dem leadership in Minnesota seems content to let it burn. The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn. Protests are spreading to other cities, including Jacksonville.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/13VSAbTVuYJfLa/giphy.gif)