Quote:Except that there's video showing Floyd not resisting anything. It's funny how unrelated video in the Arbery case somehow exonorates (or at least strongly mitigates) three white men cornering and murdering a black man, but the video we have here of a pig kneeling on the neck of a man who was compliant while three other officers look on doesn't matter. Even if we go to the extreme and say that he was somehow, at some point, resisting arrest, kneeling on his neck until he dies is not the sort of tactic taught at the police academy.
Frankly, I think law enforcement in this country could use an enema.
Me too, although I don't see how you can say the video doesn't matter. It's been universally condemned. It brought about the swift termination of these officers. It has brought on an investigation by the state and federal government. It will almost certainly lead to a manslaughter (at least) conviction. Everything is happening how it should, with the exception that the citizens should have been able to intervene in the original situation.
(05-28-2020, 07:24 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 07:18 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Fixed it 4 ya.
Except that there's video showing Floyd not resisting anything. It's funny how unrelated video in the Arbery case somehow exonorates (or at least strongly mitigates) three white men cornering and murdering a black man, but the video we have here of a pig kneeling on the neck of a man who was compliant while three other officers look on doesn't matter. Even if we go to the extreme and say that he was somehow, at some point, resisting arrest, kneeling on his neck until he dies is not the sort of tactic taught at the police academy.
Frankly, I think law enforcement in this country could use an enema.
In the Video, you can hear an older black man talking to Floyd, telling him "just get up and get in the car. I told u u cant win" etc. So that strongly lends itself to support the thesis that Floyd resisted arrest.
Now, that in no way justifies or excuses the 4 minute holding a guy by his neck while handcuffed. Again, I think that officer is guilty of negligent homicide @ a minimum. But as to why the situation initially escalated, theres evidence to support a resisted arrest and no evidence to support a random targeting based on skin color.
Glad to see these people are destroying their city over this, because you know that always fixes things.
(05-28-2020, 07:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-27-2020, 07:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Stick around man. Don't let the bastards get you down. Gets lonely around here when people with empathy keep running away in horror.
Empathy is not using emotion as evidence.
Empathy is nothing more than being able to understand a different perspective, inclusive of the emotions involved.
Putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
(05-28-2020, 08:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 07:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Empathy is not using emotion as evidence.
Empathy is nothing more than being able to understand a different perspective, inclusive of the emotions involved.
Putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
Does nothing to prove or disprove his statements.
(05-28-2020, 07:54 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 07:24 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's video showing Floyd not resisting anything. It's funny how unrelated video in the Arbery case somehow exonorates (or at least strongly mitigates) three white men cornering and murdering a black man, but the video we have here of a pig kneeling on the neck of a man who was compliant while three other officers look on doesn't matter. Even if we go to the extreme and say that he was somehow, at some point, resisting arrest, kneeling on his neck until he dies is not the sort of tactic taught at the police academy.
Frankly, I think law enforcement in this country could use an enema.
In the Video, you can hear an older black man talking to Floyd, telling him "just get up and get in the car. I told u u cant win" etc. So that strongly lends itself to support the thesis that Floyd resisted arrest.
Now, that in no way justifies or excuses the 4 minute holding a guy by his neck while handcuffed. Again, I think that officer is guilty of negligent homicide @ a minimum. But as to why the situation initially escalated, theres evidence to support a resisted arrest and no evidence to support a random targeting based on skin color.
I don't think anyone is saying the arrest wasn't warranted, it's the actions after they had him detained that are the issue.
(05-28-2020, 08:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 08:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Empathy is nothing more than being able to understand a different perspective, inclusive of the emotions involved.
Putting yourself in the other person's shoes.
Does nothing to prove or disprove his statements.
Sure, but a search for truth is only one of the reasons we are here on the forum. Human connection is probably a bigger reason.
(05-28-2020, 09:01 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 08:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Does nothing to prove or disprove his statements.
Sure, but a search for truth is only one of the reasons we are here on the forum. Human connection is probably a bigger reason.
JagJohn isn't searching for truth, he's looking for confirmation of his emotional bias.
(05-28-2020, 09:04 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 09:01 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but a search for truth is only one of the reasons we are here on the forum. Human connection is probably a bigger reason.
JagJohn isn't searching for truth, he's looking for confirmation of his emotional bias.
Seems that way to me, too. But that's ok!
(05-28-2020, 07:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-27-2020, 07:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Stick around man. Don't let the bastards get you down. Gets lonely around here when people with empathy keep running away in horror.
Empathy is not using emotion as evidence.
Empathy is defined in the dictionary as "the ability to understand and share the feelings of others". It is literally all about emotion.
We could go down the route of each sharing statistics that we feel validate our claims, and attacking each other over right wing hacks manipulating data or left wing biased MSM sites doing the same, but what's the point? Statistics can sing any song you want them to at the hands of a good composer.
Ultimately emotion, and the ability and willingness to actually listen to how people feel about this issue might actually help us to understand it better. Listen, read, seek out what the people who have to live with this situation have to say. I challenge you all to actually do that, and see if it might change how you see the subject in any way.
Here's an interesting video to start with, of course my liberal [BLEEP] bleeding heart has chosen a TED video presented in the form of poetry, because I'm nothing if not a cliche:
https://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_ho...anguage=en
Bad cop or just bad decision, he will be punished.
Burning their community and acting like animals will not help their cause.
Ice Cube and the "celebrities" calling for violence should be just as liable.
(05-28-2020, 10:41 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 07:46 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Empathy is not using emotion as evidence.
Empathy is defined in the dictionary as "the ability to understand and share the feelings of others". It is literally all about emotion.
We could go down the route of each sharing statistics that we feel validate our claims, and attacking each other over right wing hacks manipulating data or left wing biased MSM sites doing the same, but what's the point? Statistics can sing any song you want them to at the hands of a good composer.
Ultimately emotion, and the ability and willingness to actually listen to how people feel about this issue might actually help us to understand it better. Listen, read, seek out what the people who have to live with this situation have to say. I challenge you all to actually do that, and see if it might change how you see the subject in any way.
Here's an interesting video to start with, of course my liberal [BLEEP] bleeding heart has chosen a TED video presented in the form of poetry, because I'm nothing if not a cliche:
https://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_ho...anguage=en
How you feel about something does not make it true or false. This isn't complicated. I feel bad for the guy, but that doesn't mean that the cop was a racist.
(05-28-2020, 11:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 10:41 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Empathy is defined in the dictionary as "the ability to understand and share the feelings of others". It is literally all about emotion.
We could go down the route of each sharing statistics that we feel validate our claims, and attacking each other over right wing hacks manipulating data or left wing biased MSM sites doing the same, but what's the point? Statistics can sing any song you want them to at the hands of a good composer.
Ultimately emotion, and the ability and willingness to actually listen to how people feel about this issue might actually help us to understand it better. Listen, read, seek out what the people who have to live with this situation have to say. I challenge you all to actually do that, and see if it might change how you see the subject in any way.
Here's an interesting video to start with, of course my liberal [BLEEP] bleeding heart has chosen a TED video presented in the form of poetry, because I'm nothing if not a cliche:
https://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_ho...anguage=en
How you feel about something does not make it true or false. This isn't complicated. I feel bad for the guy, but that doesn't mean that the cop was a racist.
More evidence will come in, but we will probably never establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he was racist.
I think we already see it's more likely than not that this veteran cop negatively stereotyped the suspect as being someone who would fake being hurt, someone who needed extra punishment, didn't deserve to have his pulse checked, didn't deserve CPR, etc. That negative stereotype, more likely than not, was due to his skin color and speech patterns. So yeah. Probably racist.
(05-28-2020, 07:54 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 07:24 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Except that there's video showing Floyd not resisting anything. It's funny how unrelated video in the Arbery case somehow exonorates (or at least strongly mitigates) three white men cornering and murdering a black man, but the video we have here of a pig kneeling on the neck of a man who was compliant while three other officers look on doesn't matter. Even if we go to the extreme and say that he was somehow, at some point, resisting arrest, kneeling on his neck until he dies is not the sort of tactic taught at the police academy.
Frankly, I think law enforcement in this country could use an enema.
In the Video, you can hear an older black man talking to Floyd, telling him "just get up and get in the car. I told u u cant win" etc. So that strongly lends itself to support the thesis that Floyd resisted arrest.
Meanwhile, you have security camera footage from a nearby business showing Floyd initially not wanting to get out of his car, then being compliant and remaining compliant right up until the point where he stops breathing. That strongly lends itself to the theory that the "he was resisting arrest" story is [BLEEP].
(05-28-2020, 12:14 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2020, 11:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How you feel about something does not make it true or false. This isn't complicated. I feel bad for the guy, but that doesn't mean that the cop was a racist.
More evidence will come in, but we will probably never establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he was racist.
I think we already see it's more likely than not that this veteran cop negatively stereotyped the suspect as being someone who would fake being hurt, someone who needed extra punishment, didn't deserve to have his pulse checked, didn't deserve CPR, etc. That negative stereotype, more likely than not, was due to his skin color and speech patterns. So yeah. Probably racist.
That's an awful lot of assumption on your part.
Is there anybody here who believes this justifies what is happening on the streets?
Can you imagine being a small business owner who was already decimated by the shutdown of their businesses the past 2 months, and now you have to completely rebuild your business from scratch waiting on insurance money that will probably never come? How awful.
(05-28-2020, 12:47 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Is there anybody here who believes this justifies what is happening on the streets?
Rioting can be an effective tool when a population's voice is ignored by those in power for long enough. Look back at the Civil Rights era and the large-scale riots that led up to legislation to enforce equal civil rights.
Once you start looting and burning, the message is lost. Whatever point the protesters and rioters were trying to convey is a distant second to the videos of people running in and out of a burning Target with anything and everything they can grab or fit in a cart. I completely understand the crowd's initial anger with that particular Target, but it doesn't come close to justifying burning down the building, and there's just no justification possible for looting it first.
It doesn't matter if he was racist or not. It's unreasonable position to believe all cops or racist or that all police brutality towards blacks comes from racist ideology. This is typical race baiting nonsense that professors peddle to keep their jobs and a media that needs ratings. The data just doesn't support this claim. Using 2015 as an example (since it's the first data I found), there was 53.3 MILLION encounters with the police by US citizens. 20% of those were black, which makes it 10.66 million encounters blacks had with cops. That same year, 104 black people were killed by cops. Your likelihood of being killed by a police officer as an unarmed black man is 0.00000975609756097561. If you think this number is indicative of anything resembling a crisis, you are deluding yourself.
Yes. There is room for improvement with our Police. Yes. There will be bad actors. Yes. You may even find a racist cop. Yes. Blacks face discrimination in various forms in the US. None of that indicates the system is corrupt.
There are flawed people. Like almost all of America's leftist policies, they exploit the flaws of humanity to advance an ideology that won't actually solve the flaws in humanity.
As usual I think that there is more to the story than what is being presented in the media. There is a reason that he was taken down and restrained. Did he start spitting and/or kicking when being placed in the police vehicle? That's not known from the video clips that I have seen. The officers involved are not going to take him down for no reason.
I'm not saying that it justifies the officer holding his knee on the suspect's neck, but it could explain why he did it.
None of that matters. Even if he was an upstanding citizen who did nothing wrong, it's not evidence of anything. This cop is being universally condemned. Even by other police officers. This should not be a race issue. We, as Americans, should all be able to look at this and be on the same side for once. Instead of just allowing us to be united, an example of a bad cop is being broadly applied to a system as a whole, and it's done largely to benefit certain elites.
The numbers matter, and they are going contrary to the leftist narrative.
(05-28-2020, 01:05 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter if he was racist or not. It's unreasonable position to believe all cops or racist or that all police brutality towards blacks comes from racist ideology. This is typical race baiting nonsense that professors peddle to keep their jobs and a media that needs ratings. The data just doesn't support this claim. Using 2015 as an example (since it's the first data I found), there was 53.3 MILLION encounters with the police by US citizens. 20% of those were black, which makes it 10.66 million encounters blacks had with cops. That same year, 104 black people were killed by cops. Your likelihood of being killed by a police officer as an unarmed black man is 0.00000975609756097561. If you think this number is indicative of anything resembling a crisis, you are deluding yourself.
Yes. There is room for improvement with our Police. Yes. There will be bad actors. Yes. You may even find a racist cop. Yes. Blacks face discrimination in various forms in the US. None of that indicates the system is corrupt.
There are flawed people. Like almost all of America's leftist policies, they exploit the flaws of humanity to advance an ideology that won't actually solve the flaws in humanity.
Just out of curiosity - what if the number were closer to 0.5-0.6%? Would it be a crisis then?