Quote:At the same point in their career, Luck has much fewer INT's than Manning did. Actually Luck has had a better start to his career than Manning did.
That is true, but luck just doesn't seem to be improving on it. Which was one of the main points I've been making, he kinda seems like he is what he is. Obviously Peyton Manning progressed to a whole new level.
But more importantly its hard to compare qbs like that. When Peyton started it was a whole different game. The rules are made now so that qbs put up video game numbers every Sunday.
This one is a hard argument to have because we won't really know enough to see if he improved for probably another three years.
I think he is a good player and the colts are better off with him. He just isn't an "elite" guy like everyone has been crowning him without true validation.
Quote:That is true, but luck just doesn't seem to be improving on it. Which was one of the main points I've been making, he kinda seems like he is what he is. Obviously Peyton Manning progressed to a whole new level.
But more importantly its hard to compare qbs like that. When Peyton started it was a whole different game. The rules are made now so that qbs put up video game numbers every Sunday.
This one is a hard argument to have because we won't really know enough to see if he improved for probably another three years.
I think he is a good player and the colts are better off with him. He just isn't an "elite" guy like everyone has been crowning him without true validation.
I'm not sure what you are watching, but Luck has looked better. He's ahead of Manning right now at the same point in their career. Maybe he is not elite, but he is on his way.
Quote:I'm not sure what you are watching, but Luck has looked better. He's ahead of Manning right now at the same point in their career. Maybe he is not elite, but he is on his way.
i just said you cant compare the two.... mannings rookie year was 99? iirc, thats 15 years ago. the game is totally different. everything right now is made to help the QB and the offense.
Quote:I'm not sure what you are watching, but Luck has looked better. He's ahead of Manning right now at the same point in their career. Maybe he is not elite, but he is on his way.
I'd say it's pretty even (and I've been as much in the 'Luck is great' camp as anybody).
Quote:i just said you cant compare the two.... mannings rookie year was 99? iirc, thats 15 years ago. the game is totally different. everything right now is made to help the QB and the offense.
Not really. Greatest show on turf was playing in the early Manning years.
Quote:Not really. Greatest show on turf was playing in the early Manning years.
imagine how that would have looked with today's rules? it would be outrageous.
Quote:Not really. Greatest show on turf was playing in the early Manning years.
Come on, man. I've agreed with you a lot but saying that numbers from a decade are ago are apples to apples comparisons to numbers now is just stupid.
Quote:Come on, man. I've agreed with you a lot but saying that numbers from a decade are ago are apples to apples comparisons to numbers now is just stupid.
Can you name one rule change? And what season was that changed? I do remember 2004 being the season where the contact point of emphasis was highlighted. The no contact after 5 was in place long before Mannings rookie season. Funny the emphasis was because of Polians whining about the Patriots manhandling their receivers.
Quote:Can you name one rule change? And what season was that changed? I do remember 2004 being the season where the contact point of emphasis was highlighted. The no contact after 5 was in place long before Mannings rookie season. Funny the emphasis was because of Polians whining about the Patriots manhandling their receivers.
Dude, just look at the numbers from back then to now. Pedestrian numbers in today's game would be all-pro numbers back in 2000. It use to be impressive to throw for 4,000 yards. Now, guys like Matt Schaub and Josh Freeman are throwing for 4,000 yards.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000408524/article/casserly-andrew-luck-best-young-qb-in-40-years'>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000408524/article/casserly-andrew-luck-best-young-qb-in-40-years</a>
Championship GM's weigh in on Luck.
Quote:Dude, just look at the numbers from back then to now. Pedestrian numbers in today's game would be all-pro numbers back in 2000. It use to be impressive to throw for 4,000 yards. Now, guys like Matt Schaub and Josh Freeman are throwing for 4,000 yards.
Doesn't change the fact it started in 2004. Meaning in Mannings 6th year the passing got crazy and mostly for his benefit anyways.
Quote:Doesn't change the fact it started in 2004. Meaning in Mannings 6th year the passing got crazy and mostly for his benefit anyways.
That isn't what is being discussed. We are comparing Manning at this point in his career (3rd year) to Luck at this point in his career (3rd year). You can't compare the numbers apples to apples because it is a much more pass-based league now.
Quote:That isn't what is being discussed. We are comparing Manning at this point in his career (3rd year) to Luck at this point in his career (3rd year). You can't compare the numbers apples to apples because it is a much more pass-based league now.
Then please tell me the history. Break it down, cause most of the people don't have a clue why the passing numbers are up. All current pass interference and contact rules have been in place since 1978. So what is different? And yes I know what is different, do you?
So you agree that there is a difference and that passing numbers are more inflated now than they were 15 years ago? Yet you want to compare their numbers apples to apples? I thought you were a pretty respectable poster, but now I'm getting that troll vibe.
Here's a question for those that don't think Andrew Luck is a high caliber QB at this stage of his career.
Which NFL players do you believe the Colts would trade Andrew Luck straight up for if they had the opportunity to do so and the salary cap wasn't a factor on either end?
My take is the Colts wouldn't trade Luck for any player straight up.
Quote:So you agree that there is a difference and that passing numbers are more inflated now than they were 15 years ago? Yet you want to compare their numbers apples to apples? I thought you were a pretty respectable poster, but now I'm getting that troll vibe.
Anyone who doesnt agree with me is a troll.
- hailtoyourvictor
Quote:Here's a question for those that don't think Andrew Luck is a high caliber QB at this stage of his career.
Which NFL players do you believe the Colts would trade Andrew Luck straight up for if they had the opportunity to do so and the salary cap wasn't a factor on either end?
My take is the Colts wouldn't trade Luck for any player straight up.
Aaron rodgers, for sure. But luck does have youth on his side and he's had proven success. I never said he wasn't a franchise QB. Just not elite.
Quote:Then please tell me the history. Break it down, cause most of the people don't have a clue why the passing numbers are up. All current pass interference and contact rules have been in place since 1978. So what is different? And yes I know what is different, do you?
Just this season the NFL adjusted how they want pass interference called and how db's will be called for defensive holding and PI more harshly.
The Brady rule back in 09
And that rule change that was already mentioned back in 04-05, where they made the first adjustments to defensive holding. Which have been enforced much more strictly due to the decision by the competition committee.
That's 3 there and that's just off the top of my head.
Quote:Aaron rodgers, for sure. But luck does have youth on his side and he's had proven success. I never said he wasn't a franchise QB. Just not elite.
While I do believe Aaron Rodgers is the best NFL QB at present, the reason why I don't think the Colts would or should make the trade is the age difference.
Quote:Anyone who doesnt agree with me is a troll.
- hailtoyourvictor
That's not even the case here, man. Please read the conversation. He
agrees with me, but is still being confrontational. That, to me, is trolling.
Quote:Aaron rodgers, for sure. But luck does have youth on his side and he's had proven success. I never said he wasn't a franchise QB. Just not elite.
0% chance Colts would trade Luck for Rodgers.
If Packers right now called Grigson and said "We'll trade you Aaron Rodgers for Andrew Luck straight up" Grigson would laugh and hang up the phone.