Quote:You keep saying "you" when I've never said any of that. I've barely been involved in this conversation on this thread.
You HAVE to look at the players that around Foles/Dalton/Luck. Luck clearly doesn't have the same supporting cast as those two, especially Dalton and ESPECIALLY in Luck's first year.
Also, it's incredibly hilarious that all you use is STATS STATS STATS. Use your eyes. Actually watch the game. Watch the plays. Watch what's happening. It's not coincidence or luck (lower case l) that 90% of people on this planet think Luck is a good/great QB. Only those who have an agenda (ie: YOU) who think otherwise.
I watched a lot of Dalton at TCU. I wanted him to be a jaguar. He's a very good player. Foles, the jury is out on. He is more on par of a prototypical pocket passer and this year will prove a lot.
In terms of luck, he has good weapons. Wayne is older but still good. Ty Hilton is very good. Fleener was his safety net for years now. What bothers me about luck are 2 things, not the best accuracy and not the best decision making. He is definitely passionate and puts it all on the line. He comes through in the clutch and I respect that. I just watch and don't feel like I'm watching the best QB prospect in the last ten years or whatever.
Quote:Eli Manning 2013 stats - 18 TDs, 27 INTs, 0 rushing TDs
Andrew Luck 2013 stats - 23 TDs, 9 INTs, 4 rushing TDs
SO IDENTICAL!
TMD had the perfect response, "drugs" .gif "Laughing")
Yawn... you omitted more than you included.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player...asontype/2
You'd be hard pressed to find two QBs more identical statistically than the thirteenth and fourteenth QBs in the league.
Again... the sole difference, is INTs.
Quote:Luck is good, but I'm not sure he's surpassed or even met expectations.
Watching his play since his junior year of college and the marginal progress since then, it's possible he's already hit his ceiling. That's far from saying he's a bad QB, just that it could be as good as it gets.
Quote:Yawn... you omitted more than you included.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2013/seasontype/2'>http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards/year/2013/seasontype/2</a>
You'd be hard pressed to find two QBs more identical statistically than the thirteenth and fourteenth QBs in the league.
Again... the sole difference, is INTs.
I actually would say he is on par with Alex Smith statistically. To me that's hilarious too because MOST of the people touting Andrew luck to be god are the same people who laugh when I say that Alex smith is a good quarterback.
They don't understand that they're laughing at their own expense.
And I agree with you that it is possible that luck has come close to his ceiling. He did have one of the best QB coaches in the game for years before he even left college. It isn't like he is gonna get coached to better than he already was.
Quote:Yawn... you omitted more than you included.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player...asontype/2
You'd be hard pressed to find two QBs more identical statistically than the thirteenth and fourteenth QBs in the league.
Again... the sole difference, is INTs.
LOL... ya 13th & 14th if you passing yards selected as the order. Oh my goodness.
Quote:LOL... ya 13th & 14th if you passing yards selected as the order. Oh my goodness.
Well if you go by passer rating he is 18th and that's not very good...
Quote:LOL... ya 13th & 14th if you passing yards selected as the order. Oh my goodness.
Unlike yourself, I didn't cherry pick, err... "select" anything. If passing yards is how the page arranges the list when you land on the page, then that's how
they choose it.
Since you didn't comment, and assuming you actually perused the numbers, then I can only assume you've acknowledged how nearly identical their stats are across all columns. It's quite amazing when you look at them column by column. Again, the only outlier is INTs.
Wow Geno Smith had a higher YPA as did Clemens and Ponder!
In fact you click pretty much any of the major stats and he's right in the middle of the pack, it's hard to even cherry pick a good stat. He basically ranks in the "game manager" territory.
The funny thing is if Dalton had played like Luck and Luck had played like Dalton, i'm pretty sure Luck would be getting praised more and Dalton bashed more, so is the ridiculous determination for Luck to be the next Manning.
Man, I think the line has now officially been crossed into obsession.
Who is Andrew Luck? A pretty damn good QB.
Quote:STATS STATS STATS
If you're a good player, youre going to have good stats. Idk how you can dispute that.
Quote:If you're a good player, youre going to have good stats. Idk how you can dispute that.
Yeah it's funny how Rivers, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger etc are all near the top of stats, must be plain lucky to be there every year. Brady the only top QB who had a somewhat down year statistically. But he's usually in the top couple, and a player of his ilk is allowed a down year for how long he's been great.
Quote:Yeah it's funny how Rivers, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Rothlisberger etc are all near the top of stats, must be plain lucky to be there every year. Brady the only top QB who had a somewhat down year statistically. But he's usually in the top couple, and a player of his ilk is allowed a down year for how long he's been great.
for the past 10 years, brady has only been out of the top ten in passer rating 1 time, which was this last season. (not including the year he was out)
stats dont always tell the story of one game. but over the course of a year, 2 years, and a career, stats certainly do paint a picture of the quality of a player.
im not criticizing one game, or one quarter luck played. im not saying he is a bad player. im just saying he is average and the past 2 years back that up. sure, he could have better years, or he may not. right now he is mediocre.
Do you guys think that Ryan Grigson is a good GM/has made good decisions?
Quote:Do you guys think that Ryan Grigson is a good GM/has made good decisions?
where'd this question come from?? :ermm:
and, other than selecting Luck and Hilton...not many other good decisions. We'll have to see how Nicks pans out. That could be a pretty good signing if injuries haven't permanently set him back a few notches.
Quote:where'd this question come from?? :ermm:
and, other than selecting Luck and Hilton...not many other good decisions. We'll have to see how Nicks pans out. That could be a pretty good signing if injuries haven't permanently set him back a few notches.
Woah hang on a second...The midget WR? have you flip flopped?
Personally I think the perfect storm has occurred to make Indy look half decent, and there's big changes on the way in the near future.
Quote:Do you guys think that Ryan Grigson is a good GM/has made good decisions?
Even if Richardson had a good season, I don't think that was a good deal at all.
I also think the fleener pick was a bad idea. To me, it seemed like they were catering too much to luck and not thinking about the big picture. There was a lot better value to be had there. Especially considering they grabbed Allen not far after.
I don't see the colts as a steadily improving franchise. They have the feel of a team that's just going to stay on a plateau. Just my opinion but I think if they wind up better than 8-8 this year its only because of the weak division.
Quote:where'd this question come from?? :ermm:
and, other than selecting Luck and Hilton...not many other good decisions. We'll have to see how Nicks pans out. That could be a pretty good signing if injuries haven't permanently set him back a few notches.
Quote:Even if Richardson had a good season, I don't think that was a good deal at all.
I also think the fleener pick was a bad idea. To me, it seemed like they were catering too much to luck and not thinking about the big picture. There was a lot better value to be had there. Especially considering they grabbed Allen not far after.
I don't see the colts as a steadily improving franchise. They have the feel of a team that's just going to stay on a plateau. Just my opinion but I think if they wind up better than 8-8 this year its only because of the weak division.
That question wasn't aimed at you TMD. Mostly aimed at everyone else.
Most of you think Grigson is a bad GM and has made many mistakes. However, you guys also think that Andrew is an average/not good QB. You do realize that both can't be bad/average to lead us to two playoff births and two double digit win seasons in a row. So which one is it? Or are you guys going to pull the lastonealive card of "you just always get lucky"?
Quote:
That question wasn't aimed at you TMD. Mostly aimed at everyone else.
Most of you think Grigson is a bad GM and has made many mistakes. However, you guys also think that Andrew is an average/not good QB. You do realize that both can't be bad/average to lead us to two playoff births and two double digit win seasons in a row. So which one is it? Or are you guys going to pull the lastonealive card of "you just always get lucky"?
Personally I think Luck is an excellent QB. Not on the truly elite level yet, but clearly has the makeup for it. I won't be surprised when he's throwing somewhere around 40 TDs in a season.
However, that has nothing to do with Grigson. The Luck choice was a true no brainer, anyone at all could have been brought in to pull that lever.
Aside from Luck none of Grigson's other moves have come out as exceptional. His trades are boneheaded, his draft picks besides Luck aren't very impactful with the exception of Hilton, who is really just part of Luck's success and would be thought of as "just a guy" if he were part of the Jaguars the last couple of years. Lastly Grigson's choice of head coaches hasn't shown to be exceptional, either. Pagano hasn't done anything so far to show he's not a guy who can come along for a ride of success, but he's clearly not one of the Harbaugh brothers, either.
I expect by next season the Jaguars will have passed the colts and your team will spend the next 10 or so years as the Dolphins did to the Bills in the late 80's and early 90's, or even the way the colts did to the Pats and Brady while the colts were still part of the AFCE.