Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Pirkster there is no point arguing. If you don't call a Colts player elite you are saying they suck in his world.

 

Just not letting a fool put words in my mouth.  But regardless, it is what it is.

Quote:Fair points.

 

As an opponent, I don't view Luck as the challenge that Manning was or is.  Is that fair?  Perhaps not.  But that certainly has more influence than whether or not he plays on my team.  I don't envy you having him as I did Manning, either.  Perhaps respect is a better description than envy.  I wanted us to go after Manning when you let him go, but knew he probably would have never gone for that even if we were as competitive or attractive to him as Denver at the time.  I can't say the same about Luck and Bortles.  I feel our future at the position is just as bright.

This is a good question, "is that fair?"  I would contend that it's not fair.

 

Are we comparing Super Bowl winning, multiple times MVP winner, Manning to a relatively new comer in Luck? Or  are we comparing a relatively hyped QB (Manning) coming out of  college and struggling, (3-13 in year 1, 26TDs and 28 INTs), gets his head coach fired, (Mora) Manning? Because I would contend that those are two different players. Manning in his first 3 years was an up and comer and not considered elite, yet -- much like Luck is now, despite the difference in generations and difference in the league. The point is that Manning through years 1-3 was not elite but eventually went on to be. We're not giving Luck the time to become elite, and prematurely judging him, which we are not doing with Manning now.

 

I think that Luck has shown enough in his first 3 years, to think that there is no reason to think he cannot be elite, given time, either. Heck, he already led the league in TDs, in just year 3 and was third in passing yards with a 97 QB rating. If he hasn't shown to be special yet, I would agree with you, but clearly he has shown that he is special and that he has gotten better every year.

Quote:I literally said that.  Just ask coltswarriors.  He's the master of pretend conversations with himself.

 

If the reality doesn't fit the agenda, create your own reality, I suppose.

You actually did say that, without saying it.


Go back and read what you said. You said Luck should have ringS right now. Multiple rings. In his 3rd season. I cannot stop laughing.

Quote:Pirkster there is no point arguing. If you don't call a Colts player elite you are saying they suck in his world.

Lastonealive giving tips to pirkster?


This is tumbling downhill fast.

There is really only one question you need to ask yourself about Luck.

 

Do you think he has what it takes to lead his team to the Super Bowl?

 

Isn't that the ultimate question about every QB anyway?

 

The pre-draft/post-draft hype really doesn't matter. That's what all the talking heads are for, and talk they do.

 

All Luck can do is play, it's not his fault that a lot of talking heads are anointing him the next this or that.

 

It might get annoying at times, but that's not Lucks fault, all he can do is play.

Quote:There is really only one question you need to ask yourself about Luck.

 

Do you think he has what it takes to lead his team to the Super Bowl?

 

Isn't that the ultimate question about every QB anyway?

 

The pre-draft/post-draft hype really doesn't matter. That's what all the talking heads are for, and talk they do.

 

All Luck can do is play, it's not his fault that a lot of talking heads are anointing him the next this or that.

 

It might get annoying at times, but that's not Lucks fault, all he can do is play.

 

A Jaguars fan that gets it. Thank you.

Luck could very well be Jordan before Pippen and Grant, but if the clots don't improve their defense and learn how to run the ball then it won't matter how good Luck is. Even Brady when he was trowing 45 TDs a year didn't win the Super Bowl again until they built the defense back up to the early 2000s level.

To be fair plenty of qbs can take themselves to the super bowl with the right surrounding cast.


Luck was hyped to be Brady/Manning so far he's more Carson Palmer

Quote:To be fair plenty of qbs can take themselves to the super bowl with the right surrounding cast.


Luck was hyped to be Brady/Manning so far he's more Carson Palmer

 

Carson Palmer:

 

Playoff games started: 2.

Playoff games won: 0.

Years in the league: 12.

 

Andrew Luck:

 

Playoff games started: 6.

Playoff games won: 3.

Years in the league: 3

 

 

Yeah.... I definitely see the playoff resemblance....  :wacko:

Quote:Carson Palmer:

 

Playoff games started: 2.

Playoff games won: 0.

Years in the league: 12.

 

Andrew Luck:

 

Playoff games started: 6.

Playoff games won: 3.

Years in the league: 3

 

 

Yeah.... I definitely see the playoff resemblance....  :wacko:

 

Not sure what Playoff wins has to do with anything. Luck wouldn't have made the playoffs if playing in the AFC north in that era on the Bengals

 

Palmer actually had a very good 3rd season (He led league in passing td's too and made the pro bowl) He was a very talented player coming out, he made plenty of great plays but was always a turnover machine particularly against better teams. I see a similar player in Luck so far in his career.

 

Actually i'm probably being kind to Luck. Carson Palmer's 3rd season was much better than Luck's this year in an era when stats at QB weren't as inflated as now

Quote:Not sure what Playoff wins has to do with anything. Luck wouldn't have made the playoffs if playing in the AFC north in that era on the Bengals

 

Well considering you were talking about taking teams to the Super Bowl... figured you would need to win some playoff games to get there...

Quote:Well considering you were talking about taking teams to the Super Bowl... figured you would need to win some playoff games to get there...

 

If you read my point I said with the right surrounding cast plenty can make the superbowl.

 

Colin Kaepernick has plenty of playoff wins I wouldn't rate him at the top of Qb's. 

Or Luck could just be Manning: lots of regular season wins with corresponding playoff gag jobs.

I think we have a really good idea of who Luck is.

 

A turnover machine.

 

"luck, not Luck"

Favre 2.0

People don't seem to understand, football is not a one man game.  I don't care how good a QB is, he isn't going anywhere without a good supporting cast.   From what I've seen of Luck, he is an elite QB with a garbage offensive line in front of him.   They have one guy, the LT, and everyone else has been a rotating cast of nobodies.  I think they've had 9 different starting LGs in the 3 years he's been there. 

 

Even these professional commentators don't seem to understand the importance of the five guys up front on offense.   I don't care if you have Tom Brady back there, if you have a garbage offensive line, you will have a lot of problems on offense. 

Nice bump...  LOL

Quote:Nice bump...  LOL

 

Who doesn't love a good bump once in a while?

Jay Mohr was killing Andrew Luck last night on his radio show, going on record to say he is the most overrated quarterback in the NFL.

Quote:Jay Mohr was killing Andrew Luck last night on his radio show, going on record to say he is the most overrated quarterback in the NFL.

That's an example of what I said earlier, that a lot of people don't seem to realize that there are 11 guys out there, and if you have a garbage offensive line, all the skill players are going to look bad, including the QB.