Once these current QBs who are well past 30 yrs old start retiring, Luck will move up the top QB chart pretty fast.
How high up? Pretty high if you ask me.
Have you seen the current crop of young QBs around Luck's age out there?
What QB Luck's age would you take over him right now?
Maybe RW? I could see that possibility.
Any other QB around Luck's age?
Quote:So you agree that there is a difference and that passing numbers are more inflated now than they were 15 years ago? Yet you want to compare their numbers apples to apples? I thought you were a pretty respectable poster, but now I'm getting that troll vibe.
How is this for apples to apples? In both their second years Manning attempted 571 passes and Luck attempted 570. Pretty good start for comparison.
Manning was playing in a much less pass-happy league. Passing stats these days are inflated and you agree with that statement.
Quote:Manning was playing in a much less pass-happy league. Passing stats these days are inflated and you agree with that statement.
Sigh. Peyton is the reason. His arrival in the league is why it is more pass happy. He and the Colts were pass happy long before it became a league wide game plan. Look at 98 his rookie season they were pass happy as could be.
Pedestrian numbers in today's game would be all-pro numbers back in 2000. It use to be impressive to throw for 4,000 yards. Now, guys like Matt Schaub and Josh Freeman are throwing for 4,000 yards. This is because it is much easier to pass now than it was back 10-15 years ago. Stats confirm that.
In 2001, Manning and Warner were the only 2 QBs to throw for 4,000+ yards.
Heck, in 2002, the NFL Passing TD leader (Tom Brady) threw 28 TD passes. 28.
I've really never heard anyone try to claim that passing now is equally as difficult as it was 10-15 years ago, so I'm finding it hard to believe you are being serious.
Quote:Just this season the NFL adjusted how they want pass interference called and how db's will be called for defensive holding and PI more harshly.
The Brady rule back in 09
And that rule change that was already mentioned back in 04-05, where they made the first adjustments to defensive holding. Which have been enforced much more strictly due to the decision by the competition committee.
That's 3 there and that's just off the top of my head.
No, no. Ex-Indy says that passing back in 2000 was equally as difficult as it is in today's game. Guys like Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton re putting up Brett Favre numbers but it has nothing to do with it being easier to pass in today's game that 10-15 years ago.
edit: You can also add in the strict enforcement of helmet-to-helmet and defenseless receivers rules.
Quote:Pedestrian numbers in today's game would be all-pro numbers back in 2000. It use to be impressive to throw for 4,000 yards. Now, guys like Matt Schaub and Josh Freeman are throwing for 4,000 yards. This is because it is much easier to pass now than it was back 10-15 years ago. Stats confirm that.
In 2001, Manning and Warner were the only 2 QBs to throw for 4,000+ yards.
Heck, in 2002, the NFL Passing TD leader (Tom Brady) threw 28 TD passes. 28.
I've really never heard anyone try to claim that passing now is equally as difficult as it was 10-15 years ago, so I'm finding it hard to believe you are being serious.
And this is my main gripe with the Andrew Luck crew. They will say ANYTHING to make it sound like Luck is the best.
I never disputed he wasn't a good player and I agree with whoever said that when the older guys retire he will be top 3 in the league.
Now what remains to be seen is, will there be in say... 3 years, more QBs that come in and jump him? or will him being there make him the upper echelon of the NFL QBs? Either choice is obviously possible.
My personal opinion is if Andrew Luck is in the top 3 of the NFL QBs in 3 years, then the quality of QB play in the NFL is really down from where it has been recently.
Quote:No, no. Ex-Indy says that passing back in 2000 was equally as difficult as it is in today's game. Guys like Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton re putting up Brett Favre numbers but it has nothing to do with it being easier to pass in today's game that 10-15 years ago.
I am talking about 1 QB. Only one. Not Dalton, not Ryan. Just Manning. Manning was throwing equal amounts to what Luck is throwing now. I said the league is more pass happy now. I believe that Manning is the cause of that shift.
Quote:No, no. Ex-Indy says that passing back in 2000 was equally as difficult as it is in today's game. Guys like Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton re putting up Brett Favre numbers but it has nothing to do with it being easier to pass in today's game that 10-15 years ago.
edit: You can also add in the strict enforcement of helmet-to-helmet and defenseless receivers rules.
very true. imagine if guys like dan marino played in the NFL this year or kurt warner in his prime... they would be throwing for 5 hundo a game....
Quote:I am talking about 1 QB. Only one. Not Dalton, not Ryan. Just Manning. Manning was throwing equal amounts to what Luck is throwing now. I said the league is more pass happy now. I believe that Manning is the cause of that shift.
it has nothing to do with the frequency of the passing. it has to do with the rules making it easier for the receiver to get open, harder for the defender to do anything, harder for the defense to disrupt the passer....
Quote:it has nothing to do with the frequency of the passing. it has to do with the rules making it easier for the receiver to get open, harder for the defender to do anything, harder for the defense to disrupt the passer....
Exactly. If you take the 2001 Colts and put them in the 2014 NFL, Manning probably throws for 500-1,000 more yards and 10-15 more TDs.
Back on topic.
One GM who helped build a 3 time super bowl champion has called Luck the best QB in nearly 40 years. But Achilles say's that isn't so because he said so.
I think that Luck is great. I've said as much several times in this thread. That wasn't my point.
Quote:I think that Luck is great. I've said as much several times in this thread. That wasn't my point.
There is no point. Regardless of the past means nothing to me. Unitas is to Manning is to Luck. Elite quarterbacks. And one thing no rule change is wins.
Quote:I think that Luck is great. I've said as much several times in this thread. That wasn't my point.
There is no point. Regardless of the past means nothing to me. Unitas is to Manning is to Luck. Elite quarterbacks. And one thing no rule change is wins.
The point is that you can't compare stats from now and 10-15 years ago because of changes within the game. It's obvious to anyone that isn't an idiot.
Quote:0% chance Colts would trade Luck for Rodgers.
If Packers right now called Grigson and said "We'll trade you Aaron Rodgers for Andrew Luck straight up" Grigson would laugh and hang up the phone.
Grigson should never laugh at anyone when it comes to trades. Be great to see how bad Richardson would be on our team
Quote:Oh your the Denard Robinson is a great player guy...
Nope. Never even said Denard Robinson was good. You're a liar.
Meanwhile,
you sad Jordan Todman was twice the player. lol...
Quote:Nope. Never even said Denard Robinson was good. You're a liar.
Meanwhile, you sad Jordan Todman was twice the player. lol...
Which would be correct.
Its not that I think Todman is anymore than mediocre.
Quote:i just said you cant compare the two.... mannings rookie year was 99? iirc, thats 15 years ago. the game is totally different. everything right now is made to help the QB and the offense.
Still impressive regardless.