Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Define better arm!

Stronger and more accurate.

Quote:Stronger and more accurate.

So what evidence of a stronger arm can you provide? At the moment I would say that accuracy has pulle up to a draw. What i see from Russell is a guy who gives up on plays and takes off. A guy his size needs to be more like Drew Brees and less Randall Cunningham.

Quote:Ummm luck has thrown the ball 260 times to RW's 139.


RW has a very strong arm. He's incredibly accurate. Smart. Mobile. Very good passer on the move as well.


I would venture to say that RW has a better arm than luck and throws a nicer ball.


Based on their first years already in the league I'd take Dalton, based on physical ability and a 5 year projection just based on the chance that luck hasn't peaked, I'd take luck.


I also think I just convinced myself that I'd take RW over luck as well.

Yes, Luck has thrown more because that's the team's strength. What does that tell you about RW? Marshawn Lynch is their offensive focus.

 

Let's look at RW's numbers by themselves. Again, he's only thrown for 978 yards in 5 games. He's averaging less than 200 yards per game. Never mind how that compares to Luck's numbers. Is that what you want from the "best young QB" in the league? 

 

Wilson's success so far is fairly easy to define. The Seahawks have one of the best run games in the league, without including RW's rushing stats. He's had the best defense in the league, and they're still a very good defense this year. And their special team's is one of the best.

 

Why have the Colts won so much? 11-5 both of Luck's first 2 years with NO running game, one of the worst O-lines in the league the past two years, and a defense that's ranked in the bottom third the past two year's. Is it because Andrew Luck has contributed significantly to those wins? An easy schedule?--with wins against the Packers, Lions, Chiefs, Texans (AFC South Champs in 2012) Vikings, Forty Niners, Broncos, Seahawks, and Ravens.

Quote:So what evidence of a stronger arm can you provide? At the moment I would say that accuracy has pulle up to a draw. What i see from Russell is a guy who gives up on plays and takes off. A guy his size needs to be more like Drew Brees and less Randall Cunningham.

Besides watching them play there isn't really a measure of arm strength but you can clearly see RW sticks a lot more passes on the money and throws a tighter ball than luck.


In terms of accuracy, its no question. RW is at 64% for his career and luck is at 58.something.


Russell Wilson is a smart player and looks to pass first. He takes off running when he needs to. You're really trying to criticize how he plays?


You're pretty much the only person I've ever seen try to do that.

Quote:Yes, Luck has thrown more because that's the team's strength. What does that tell you about RW? Marshawn Lynch is their offensive focus.


Let's look at RW's numbers by themselves. Again, he's only thrown for 978 yards in 5 games. He's averaging less than 200 yards per game. Never mind how that compares to Luck's numbers. Is that what you want from the "best young QB" in the league?


Wilson's success so far is fairly easy to define. The Seahawks have one of the best run games in the league, without including RW's rushing stats. He's had the best defense in the league, and they're still a very good defense this year. And their special team's is one of the best.


Why have the Colts won so much? 11-5 both of Luck's first 2 years with NO running game, one of the worst O-lines in the league the past two years, and a defense that's ranked in the bottom third the past two year's. Is it because Andrew Luck has contributed significantly to those wins? An easy schedule?--with wins against the Packers, Lions, Chiefs, Texans (AFC South Champs in 2012) Vikings, Forty Niners, Broncos, Seahawks, and Ravens.

With that said this year his OLine isn't terrible, Bradshaw can run, and the defense is good enough to be termed good. He needs to make noise in the playoffs now.

Quote:Yes, Luck has thrown more because that's the team's strength. What does that tell you about RW? Marshawn Lynch is their offensive focus.


Let's look at RW's numbers by themselves. Again, he's only thrown for 978 yards in 5 games. He's averaging less than 200 yards per game. Never mind how that compares to Luck's numbers. Is that what you want from the "best young QB" in the league?


Wilson's success so far is fairly easy to define. The Seahawks have one of the best run games in the league, without including RW's rushing stats. He's had the best defense in the league, and they're still a very good defense this year. And their special team's is one of the best.


Why have the Colts won so much? 11-5 both of Luck's first 2 years with NO running game, one of the worst O-lines in the league the past two years, and a defense that's ranked in the bottom third the past two year's. Is it because Andrew Luck has contributed significantly to those wins? An easy schedule?--with wins against the Packers, Lions, Chiefs, Texans (AFC South Champs in 2012) Vikings, Forty Niners, Broncos, Seahawks, and Ravens.

Just because he doesn't have to throw that much doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to successfully.


RW throws for more YPA than luck and completes more of his passes. Yeah, they have the better overall team but if you put luck on the colts and he had to throw the ball more, he would be putting up better numbers than luck, in my opinion.


He already won a Superbowl in his second year and he seems to get better every single game he plays.


Luck looks pretty much the same every game.

Quote:Just because he doesn't have to throw that much doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to successfully.

RW throws for more YPA than luck and completes more of his passes. Yeah, they have the better overall team but if you put luck on the colts and he had to throw the ball more, he would be putting up better numbers than luck, in my opinion.

He already won a Superbowl in his second year and he seems to get better every single game he plays.

Luck looks pretty much the same every game.

You are the only person who hasnt seen the improvement Luck has made.

Quote:Yes, Luck has thrown more because that's the team's strength. What does that tell you about RW? Marshawn Lynch is their offensive focus.

 

Let's look at RW's numbers by themselves. Again, he's only thrown for 978 yards in 5 games. He's averaging less than 200 yards per game. Never mind how that compares to Luck's numbers. Is that what you want from the "best young QB" in the league? 

 

Wilson's success so far is fairly easy to define. The Seahawks have one of the best run games in the league, without including RW's rushing stats. He's had the best defense in the league, and they're still a very good defense this year. And their special team's is one of the best.

 

Why have the Colts won so much? 11-5 both of Luck's first 2 years with NO running game, one of the worst O-lines in the league the past two years, and a defense that's ranked in the bottom third the past two year's. Is it because Andrew Luck has contributed significantly to those wins? An easy schedule?--with wins against the Packers, Lions, Chiefs, Texans (AFC South Champs in 2012) Vikings, Forty Niners, Broncos, Seahawks, and Ravens.

RW has a stronger arm than Manning and throws a nicer ball. You and I know that arm strength and a pretty spiral doesn't mean much. Look at Gabbert as a perfect example.

 

Quote:With that said this year bis OLine isnt terrible, Bradshaw can run, and tne defense is good enough to be termed good. He needs to make noise in the playoffs now.

Yes, and what has that translated to?  Luck is #1 in passing yards, fist downs, and TDs. What Colts fans have been saying since he entered the league is that he is very special and given a good team, like Wilson, he will easily separate himself. We can't deny that now since he is leading the league in these categories and has the same passer rating as RW, 99.7.

 

Quote:Just because he doesn't have to throw that much doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to successfully.


RW throws for more YPA than luck and completes more of his passes. Yeah, they have the better overall team but if you put luck on the colts and he had to throw the ball more, he would be putting up better numbers than luck, in my opinion.


He already won a Superbowl in his second year and he seems to get better every single game he plays.


Luck looks pretty much the same every game.

A. You can't prove that Wilson will be just as successful throwing as much as luck since he's never done it.

B. If RW does throw as much as Luck, then defensive game plans will drastically change. His success would absolutely decrease throwing as much as Luck, and most football fans would agree.

 

He throws for more YPA than Luck. Per Greg Cossell, the Seahawks offense is based on deception, more than any other offense in the league. This is done to compensate for RW's play style, allowing for easier passes. If you have watched the Seahawks, he throws the ball in opportune moments. This translates to easier passes and a higher YPA. If you look at RGIII's stats when he ran an offense based on misdirection, his YPA was very high too. But when asked to throw from the pocket as a traditional drop back passer, he was poor. RW is a better passer than RGIII, but the same would happen if asked to play in the Colt's offense.

 

Luck looks the same every game- His completion percentage has gone from 54% to 60% to 66% this year. He's gotten better every year in this regard. As mentioned earlier, so far he's leading the league in passing yards and TDS, and first downs. He's clearly improving and not recognizing that is intellectually dishonest.

Quote:RW has a stronger arm than Manning and throws a nicer ball. You and I know that arm strength and a pretty spiral doesn't mean much. Look at Gabbert as a perfect example.


Yes, and what has that translated to? Luck is #1 in passing yards, fist downs, and TDs. What Colts fans have been saying since he entered the league is that he is very special and given a good team, like Wilson, he will easily separate himself. We can't deny that now since he is leading the league in these categories and has the same passer rating as RW, 99.7.


A. You can't prove that Wilson will be just as successful throwing as much as luck since he's never done it.

B. If RW does throw as much as Luck, then defensive game plans will drastically change. His success would absolutely decrease throwing as much as Luck, and most football fans would agree.


He throws for more YPA than Luck. Per Greg Cossell, the Seahawks offense is based on deception, more than any other offense in the league. This is done to compensate for RW's play style, allowing for easier passes. If you have watched the Seahawks, he throws the ball in opportune moments. This translates to easier passes and a higher YPA. If you look at RGIII's stats when he ran an offense based on misdirection, his YPA was very high too. But when asked to throw from the pocket as a traditional drop back passer, he was poor. RW is a better passer than RGIII, but the same would happen if asked to play in the Colt's offense.


Luck looks the same every game- His completion percentage has gone from 54% to 60% to 66% this year. He's gotten better every year in this regard. As mentioned earlier, so far he's leading the league in passing yards and TDS, and first downs. He's clearly improving and not recognizing that is intellectually dishonest.

I agree that I can't prove that but then you go ahead and try to disprove it? That doesn't make sense.


I've seen RW march the seahawks down the field passing the ball plenty, little to no running involved a lot.


Either way the point was I say RW has a better arm and I believe that is a generally accepted statement

Quote:I agree that I can't prove that but then you go ahead and try to disprove it? That doesn't make sense.


I've seen RW march the seahawks down the field passing the ball plenty, little to no running involved a lot.


Either way the point was I say RW has a better arm and I believe that is a generally accepted statement

Thanks, Achilles, for the discussion. I will head out-- leaving work now and may check in from time to time.

Tighter spirals does not equal better arm strength.


When are these clowns going to learn that?

this is the first game i can say that luck really looked good against a good defense. impressive performance.

Haven't seen any. But looking at the score we should be asking who the hell this Indy Defence is? 

Lastonealine....

 

Still think Todman > Denard Robinson? LOL.

Quote:Lastonealine....

 

Still think Todman > Denard Robinson? LOL.

 

 

Yes I do.

 

Hopefully DRob is improving though. He's still not a starting RB.

 

Hey i hope he becomes the superstar you think he is.

Quote:Yes I do.

 

Hopefully DRob is improving though. He's still not a starting RB.

 

Hey i hope he becomes the superstar you think he is.

 

I've never said he was a superstar, so quit lying. Lying is for pathetic fools who can't admit they were wrong.

 

Denard Robinson >>> Todman. That much is obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot.

Quote:I've never said he was a superstar, so quit lying. Lying is for pathetic fools who can't admit they were wrong.

 

Denard Robinson >>> Todman. That much is obvious to anyone who isn't an idiot.

 

 

Yeah one guy who averages 3.5 yards is better than the other by so much is must be clear.

 

If you don't think Denard Robinson is a great player, and I don't think Todman is anything more than mediocre, why are you bumping an Andrew Luck thread to try and prove me wrong? I have never started a Jordan Todman is great thread.

 

I obviously have you mistaken with someone else and neither of us think either of these players are good players...So what's the big deal?

Quote:Lastonealine....

 

Still think Todman > Denard Robinson? LOL.

 

kirk cousins making me look like a fool....

Luck is answering the question in my OP right now.  

Luck is playing very well.


His play was overrated the first 2 years but now he's starting to look like a top qb. Looks like I was wrong when I thought he had plateaued.


The Colts D is looking like a top unit as well.