(09-29-2023, 06:33 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2023, 06:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/5AYcSMsIA1w?si=xGMc14LGr_8-TAI-
Whats crazy to me is PFF has him as the 92nd out of 104 edge defenders against the run. That was supposed to be one of his strengths. Man I hope something clicks for him in London in a good way.
The Jaguars' 2022 draft looks to be on the same level as the Jaguars' 2008 draft.
It's [BLEEP].
And I'm not getting any warm fuzzy feelings from the '23 draft so far, either.
Its very depressing. I really hope we can pull off a win Sunday. This team needs some type of confidence.
(09-29-2023, 01:40 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine if the Jets didn't beat the Rams in 2020. There's a good chance the Jags would have ended up with Zach Wilson and Travon Walker in back to back years.
We'd have had Fields. There was no other team but the Jets that had Wilson rated that highly and would have even touched him in the top 10 imho. The niners were high on Lance, and with Urban in charge of the show and his Ohio State background i'm convinced we would've taken Justin Fields at #2 overall. Now I really believe destination and coaching matters, the Bears are a dumpster fire in that respect and Fields would be better here than he is in Chicago but with that said I don't think we'd be a playoff team, probably 7-10 record assuming we still end up with Pederson.
(09-29-2023, 06:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2023, 06:33 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The Jaguars' 2022 draft looks to be on the same level as the Jaguars' 2008 draft.
It's [BLEEP].
And I'm not getting any warm fuzzy feelings from the '23 draft so far, either.
Its very depressing. I really hope we can pull off a win Sunday. This team needs some type of confidence.
Hell, we all need some type of confidence.
Traighvaun may not pan out to be as aggressive as Hutchinson, but I think the team will find a productive spot for him. He's big, he's strong and he seems durable. Walker can forge a legacy here.
Walker sucks. I hate seeing local coverage guys or independent coverage guys try to justify his development or selection now.
He was the wrong player. Period. And that pains me as a Bulldogs fan. He has time to get these things corrected but he's flashed so little as a pass rusher that it's hard to be positive.
Jordan de Lugo in particular is at least honest. He's a good disruptor in terms of negative plays forced offensively. However, he's simply not an impact pass rusher.
Which is why it made no sense then like it clearly makes no sense now that they took him over Hutchinson.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...BShTw&s=19
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Jordan de Lugo's last comment in that post is hilarious. It's the adult equivalent of saying, "Hey, you're not a complete failure, but, you sure as [BLEEP] leave us with little hope for success".
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
(09-30-2023, 06:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Walker sucks. I hate seeing local coverage guys or independent coverage guys try to justify his development or selection now.
He was the wrong player. Period. And that pains me as a Bulldogs fan. He has time to get these things corrected but he's flashed so little as a pass rusher that it's hard to be positive.
Jordan de Lugo in particular is at least honest. He's a good disruptor in terms of negative plays forced offensively. However, he's simply not an impact pass rusher.
Which is why it made no sense then like it clearly makes no sense now that they took him over Hutchinson.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...BShTw&s=19
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Jordan de Lugo's last comment in that post is hilarious. It's the adult equivalent of saying, "Hey, you're not a complete failure, but, you sure as [BLEEP] leave us with little hope for success".
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
He has his splash plays but to be good you have to be more consistent. PFF also has Walker as the 92nd out of 104 edge defenders against the run
(09-30-2023, 06:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Walker sucks. I hate seeing local coverage guys or independent coverage guys try to justify his development or selection now.
He was the wrong player. Period. And that pains me as a Bulldogs fan. He has time to get these things corrected but he's flashed so little as a pass rusher that it's hard to be positive.
Jordan de Lugo in particular is at least honest. He's a good disruptor in terms of negative plays forced offensively. However, he's simply not an impact pass rusher.
Which is why it made no sense then like it clearly makes no sense now that they took him over Hutchinson.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...BShTw&s=19
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Jordan de Lugo's last comment in that post is hilarious. It's the adult equivalent of saying, "Hey, you're not a complete failure, but, you sure as [BLEEP] leave us with little hope for success".
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
He's also got a decent number of TFL's at 4 to go with his 1 sack. In that regard he's getting 1.66 tackles in the backfield per game so far. He does get in the back field, he just needs to do it more often on passing plays as Jordan mentions. TFL's aren't as sexy as sacks, but the net result is the same. If he winds up with a combined 28+ for TFL's/Sacks for the year, no matter how you slice the two you'd have to regard that as a very good year.
Also, the .5 sack they awarded Hutch on Thursday night was weak sauce. He was the 3rd guy to get hands on the QB from what I saw and the QB was already being tackled. It seemed very generous to award a .5 sack there, but he is much more of a media darling than Travon so perhaps that's one of the perks.
dudes a traffic cone out there
(09-30-2023, 07:05 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 06:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Walker sucks. I hate seeing local coverage guys or independent coverage guys try to justify his development or selection now.
He was the wrong player. Period. And that pains me as a Bulldogs fan. He has time to get these things corrected but he's flashed so little as a pass rusher that it's hard to be positive.
Jordan de Lugo in particular is at least honest. He's a good disruptor in terms of negative plays forced offensively. However, he's simply not an impact pass rusher.
Which is why it made no sense then like it clearly makes no sense now that they took him over Hutchinson.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...BShTw&s=19
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Jordan de Lugo's last comment in that post is hilarious. It's the adult equivalent of saying, "Hey, you're not a complete failure, but, you sure as [BLEEP] leave us with little hope for success".
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
He has his splash plays but to be good you have to be more consistent. PFF also has Walker as the 92nd out of 104 edge defenders against the run
Hmmm....isnt this touted as his strength?
Honestly, i didnt follow the draft evaluation of these two back in 2022, but this is looking like another 1st round miss. Its so true....high picks should be game ready, lower picks are development projects.
(09-30-2023, 09:42 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 07:05 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He has his splash plays but to be good you have to be more consistent. PFF also has Walker as the 92nd out of 104 edge defenders against the run
Hmmm....isnt this touted as his strength?
Honestly, i didnt follow the draft evaluation of these two back in 2022, but this is looking like another 1st round miss. Its so true....high picks should be game ready, lower picks are development projects.
It is, and I though last year he was very good against the run. This year not so much 3 weeks in. Look at this play from last week. I remember watching this live and couldn't believe the TE was doing Walker like this, he looked lost and was just getting pushed around the whole play. It's at 6:55. With Walker's athleticism and strength he should be mauling TEs and throwing them out of the way if he gets a 1 on 1 but he's been very disappointing early in year 2
https://youtu.be/5AYcSMsIA1w?si=yrs_HgVInQ3C32aL
(09-30-2023, 09:42 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 07:05 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]He has his splash plays but to be good you have to be more consistent. PFF also has Walker as the 92nd out of 104 edge defenders against the run
Hmmm....isnt this touted as his strength?
Honestly, i didnt follow the draft evaluation of these two back in 2022, but this is looking like another 1st round miss. Its so true....high picks should be game ready, lower picks are development projects.
This bit is indeed kinda weird.
They credit him with plays in the backfield in every game vs the run but overall grade his run defense very badly.
Last season they graded his run defense top ten among outside pass rushers IIRC.
There will always be a bit of an enigma surrounding PFF's methods of arriving at numbers, but I guess I need to sort through a game's all22 just focusing on his reps vs the run.
(09-30-2023, 10:02 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 09:42 AM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmm....isnt this touted as his strength?
Honestly, i didnt follow the draft evaluation of these two back in 2022, but this is looking like another 1st round miss. Its so true....high picks should be game ready, lower picks are development projects.
This bit is indeed kinda weird.
They credit him with plays in the backfield in every game vs the run but overall grade his run defense very badly.
Last season they graded his run defense top ten among outside pass rushers IIRC.
There will always be a bit of an enigma surrounding PFF's methods of arriving at numbers, but I guess I need to sort through a game's all22 just focusing on his reps vs the run.
It's because he's not consistent enough. Even that guy breaking down the Texans game mentions it. He has the good splash plays every now and then so they stick and people remember those couple plays but you have to be consistently good to get a good grade. I haven't watched every play for all 104 edge defenders but I think he is better than 92nd. With that said he just hasn't been very good outside of the few splash plays he makes every now and then
He's got another year. The concern is that he isn't getting better. It reminds me of Josh Allen. Both these dudes are physical beasts. They are monsters on the field compared to the sloppy line men they go against. And yet, they are always stoned by slower, fatter, less athletic linemen.
Walker and Allen are just dudes. It's too bad they aren't getting better year to year. Especially with Allen, he had so much potential. And he looks so lacksidasical out there. Just going through the motions. You'd think a dude on a contract year would ball out. And yet, maybe he just loves Jacksonville and wants to stay here, so he's loafing to get an easy contract. The Who Douglas approach. I kinda respect that. Go half speed, still get paid tens of millions of dollars. Get washed out 3 years later after making 20 million. And you did it all while not really getting hurt because you never really went all out.
At least Walker is pushing hard, but he's doing the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe the coaches are worthless and don't know how to teach him?? Maybe he just doesn't listen to coaching? Maybe he's just not a good football player? Either way, Walker is the same player this year as he was his rookie year over 3 games. Maybe Josh Allen has poisoned him from really going all in. All while the coaches are not really inspiring passion.
I guess we'll see over the next few weeks.
Who makes the decision to stick Walker at LDE or RDE versus OLB? Is that a Doug, Caldwell, or Baalke decision? All three? I just don't know why they don't try "something", given that he really is a garbage 3-4 OLB.
(09-30-2023, 08:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]He's got another year. The concern is that he isn't getting better. It reminds me of Josh Allen. Both these dudes are physical beasts. They are monsters on the field compared to the sloppy line men they go against. And yet, they are always stoned by slower, fatter, less athletic linemen.
Walker and Allen are just dudes. It's too bad they aren't getting better year to year. Especially with Allen, he had so much potential. And he looks so lacksidasical out there. Just going through the motions. You'd think a dude on a contract year would ball out. And yet, maybe he just loves Jacksonville and wants to stay here, so he's loafing to get an easy contract. The Who Douglas approach. I kinda respect that. Go half speed, still get paid tens of millions of dollars. Get washed out 3 years later after making 20 million. And you did it all while not really getting hurt because you never really went all out.
At least Walker is pushing hard, but he's doing the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe the coaches are worthless and don't know how to teach him?? Maybe he just doesn't listen to coaching? Maybe he's just not a good football player? Either way, Walker is the same player this year as he was his rookie year over 3 games. Maybe Josh Allen has poisoned him from really going all in. All while the coaches are not really inspiring passion.
I guess we'll see over the next few weeks.
Josh Allen has been much better than Walker through their respective careers, and it's not even close.
Walker seems like Ridley, a guy that wants to be in the NFL and make money, but not a guy that wants to be great.
(09-29-2023, 09:45 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ] (09-29-2023, 01:40 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine if the Jets didn't beat the Rams in 2020. There's a good chance the Jags would have ended up with Zach Wilson and Travon Walker in back to back years.
We'd have had Fields. There was no other team but the Jets that had Wilson rated that highly and would have even touched him in the top 10 imho. The niners were high on Lance, and with Urban in charge of the show and his Ohio State background i'm convinced we would've taken Justin Fields at #2 overall. Now I really believe destination and coaching matters, the Bears are a dumpster fire in that respect and Fields would be better here than he is in Chicago but with that said I don't think we'd be a playoff team, probably 7-10 record assuming we still end up with Pederson.
NGL I was terrified we were gonna take Fields anyway at 1 because of Urbans Ohio connection, just like he claimed he wanted Kadarius Toney where we took ETN.. dudes stupid.
(10-01-2023, 07:47 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (09-30-2023, 08:01 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]He's got another year. The concern is that he isn't getting better. It reminds me of Josh Allen. Both these dudes are physical beasts. They are monsters on the field compared to the sloppy line men they go against. And yet, they are always stoned by slower, fatter, less athletic linemen.
Walker and Allen are just dudes. It's too bad they aren't getting better year to year. Especially with Allen, he had so much potential. And he looks so lacksidasical out there. Just going through the motions. You'd think a dude on a contract year would ball out. And yet, maybe he just loves Jacksonville and wants to stay here, so he's loafing to get an easy contract. The Who Douglas approach. I kinda respect that. Go half speed, still get paid tens of millions of dollars. Get washed out 3 years later after making 20 million. And you did it all while not really getting hurt because you never really went all out.
At least Walker is pushing hard, but he's doing the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe the coaches are worthless and don't know how to teach him?? Maybe he just doesn't listen to coaching? Maybe he's just not a good football player? Either way, Walker is the same player this year as he was his rookie year over 3 games. Maybe Josh Allen has poisoned him from really going all in. All while the coaches are not really inspiring passion.
I guess we'll see over the next few weeks.
Josh Allen has been much better than Walker through their respective careers, and it's not even close.
Walker seems like Ridley, a guy that wants to be in the NFL and make money, but not a guy that wants to be great.
If Ridley feels that way - then he looked at a camera 17 times this offseason and lied through his teeth about it.
I didn't pick up on an ounce of insincerity from the man.
I think your assessment is bad.
My greater concern (above this lack of desire to improve/perform you suggest) is the way in which neither Allen nor Walker are developing an arsenal of moves/technique to shed or evade blocks. (rips,spins,push/pull,clubs,Vaders,spill/pry etc)
This could be an indictment on their personal abilities to assimilate and implement instruction or it may mean that this OLB coach isn't getting it done. Or a bit of both.
Allen is in a contract year - there is zero doubt as to how badly he wants to put big performances on tape. I can only speculate about Walker's motivation. He's not as easy to nail down.
Personally I think he's a bit of a slow learner when it comes to technique because his whole career to this point he was able to win matchups easily by just being bigger and stronger than whomever they lined him up against.
Not so in the NFL - so he has to learn all that stuff he hasn't learned yet.
Our braintrust decided they thought he could pick it up quickly enough to be worth the 1st pick. So far - they are being disappointed, but he still has time to redeem.
I really like Travon as a person but would like to see more production on the field. He has not had the bone headed mental errors that he had last year, but seems to be playing with less edge out there. It looks like he is thinking too much out there.
He has a real opportunity today in a game that should play to his strengths.
(10-01-2023, 08:00 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 07:47 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen has been much better than Walker through their respective careers, and it's not even close.
Walker seems like Ridley, a guy that wants to be in the NFL and make money, but not a guy that wants to be great.
If Ridley feels that way - then he looked at a camera 17 times this offseason and lied through his teeth about it.
I didn't pick up on an ounce of insincerity from the man.
I think your assessment is bad.
My greater concern (above this lack of desire to improve/perform you suggest) is the way in which neither Allen nor Walker are developing an arsenal of moves/technique to shed or evade blocks. (rips,spins,push/pull,clubs,Vaders,spill/pry etc)
This could be an indictment on their personal abilities to assimilate and implement instruction or it may mean that this OLB coach isn't getting it done. Or a bit of both.
Allen is in a contract year - there is zero doubt as to how badly he wants to put big performances on tape. I can only speculate about Walker's motivation. He's not as easy to nail down.
Personally I think he's a bit of a slow learner when it comes to technique because his whole career to this point he was able to win matchups easily by just being bigger and stronger than whomever they lined him up against.
Not so in the NFL - so he has to learn all that stuff he hasn't learned yet.
Our braintrust decided they thought he could pick it up quickly enough to be worth the 1st pick. So far - they are being disappointed, but he still has time to redeem.
Believe what you want, but his body language looks like a guy that's not interested in more than the paycheck.
He's in a contract year, this is as good as his play is going to get.
The Jaguars should not give him a big contract, if they give him any contract moving forward at all.
Disappointed he has not flashed much today. I overheard the commentator say the coaching staff mentioned he has a vocal say in picking and choosing who he wants to attack along the line.
Like that matters. LOL.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk