Hutch plays in a 4-3 as a DE
Walker plays in a 3-4 as a Edge Linebacker.
they play different positions. Hutch doesn't have to drop into coverage or doi anything other than rush the passer.
i know for fact 3 of Hutchs sacks the QB fell backwards into him while he was on the ground. not exactly explosive playing. but stats are stats. and Walker is the only rookie passrusher with both a Int and Strip Sack.
watching both play ive seen a few det. games i prefer walker, i just think we need to keep his hand in the dirt for pass rushing he generates more power off the edge that way.
(12-14-2022, 10:27 AM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]Hutch plays in a 4-3 as a DE
Walker plays in a 3-4 as a Edge Linebacker.
they play different positions. Hutch doesn't have to drop into coverage or doi anything other than rush the passer.
i know for fact 3 of Hutchs sacks the QB fell backwards into him while he was on the ground. not exactly explosive playing. but stats are stats. and Walker is the only rookie passrusher with both a Int and Strip Sack.
watching both play ive seen a few det. games i prefer walker, i just think we need to keep his hand in the dirt for pass rushing he generates more power off the edge that way.
Hutch the specialist with a high floor and low ceiling...
Walker the jack of all trades with a low floor but potential to the moon...
It's tough to gamble on a guy like Walker. But if you have a great coaching staff, you can get the best out of a guy like Walker. Meanwhile, Hutch is gonna be a very good player in the NFL and you don't have to worry about it. But let's face it, Hutch isn't a JJ Watt type player.
For me, I appreciate taking the gamble on Trayvon and assuming that you have coaching that can build the player up. But let's face it. Coaching matters. Caldwell needs to prove he can cultivate the talent, because we have talent. The next 4 games, to me are HUGE for the defense and the future of the Caldwell. I hope that he's figured it out...
I'm just excited to see how the kid develops.
My expectations this year was 6 or 7 wins and missing the postseason - so I'm not tripping about rookie development. He's flashing some good stuff, but the jags initial approach with leaving him on the edge seems to have been sort of a slow boat to China - if you will.
Walker would seem to have the higher upside between these two and we just have to hope the staff in Jax is able to help him get there. More 4-3 looks with Walker's hand in the ground would be good with me and I hope they lean that way for a while.
flsg mentioned putting Allen at SAM in another thread - and that might be a way to get more from both of these guys.
Lloyd at WILL could potentially save yet another struggling player. Just spitballing, but I really do wonder what we may see happen in the summer of 23 with this defense. I think we'll see some changes.
Hutch has more sack, Walker has more tackles. Similar turnover, similar tackles for loss. Can't argue that Hutchinson is having a better season, as offenses aren't double teaming him as often as Walker. Heck, they don't even cover him at all at tines...... That's where most of his sacks came from. Walker has had to actually work for his sacks.
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Yeah I feel like Walker is on his way. That titans game was a big moment for him. Also hope coaching staff can keep developing him and Lloyd to their potential. That is a key part of making sure draft picks pan out.
(12-14-2022, 08:10 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, all the people calling for Sauce seem vindicated based on his rookie season play. However, I think Walker and Hutch will always be compared, due to their draft and field positions being so similar. That monster hit against Tanehill this past weekend reignited my excitement over what Walker can be. I don’t think any of Hutch’s plays have had that kind of wow factor to them.
I knew we wouldn't do it but I wanted it. I know position values blah blah but I just firmly believe you take the elite talent over the project when the position is still valuable enough like CB. Pass rush is obviously important but it dosen't matter if it's not blatantly obvious that they will translate. It feels like every year when the #1 pick is debatable between multiple guys, usually at least one of them fails if not both. Much like in 2013 when it was "Luke Joeckel is the clear cut #1.. oh wait maybe eric fisher?" and we know how that turned out.
(12-14-2022, 10:42 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just excited to see how the kid develops.
My expectations this year was 6 or 7 wins and missing the postseason - so I'm not tripping about rookie development. He's flashing some good stuff, but the jags initial approach with leaving him on the edge seems to have been sort of a slow boat to China - if you will.
Walker would seem to have the higher upside between these two and we just have to hope the staff in Jax is able to help him get there. More 4-3 looks with Walker's hand in the ground would be good with me and I hope they lean that way for a while.
flsg mentioned putting Allen at SAM in another thread - and that might be a way to get more from both of these guys.
Lloyd at WILL could potentially save yet another struggling player. Just spitballing, but I really do wonder what we may see happen in the summer of 23 with this defense. I think we'll see some changes.
Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing him on the inside, the dude has snaps in college at pretty much every posistion on the defense outside of Safety so might aswell movem about and see what sticks.
(12-14-2022, 10:22 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2022, 11:41 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I know I keep bringing up Gardner when we talk about walker/hutch but man, imagine this secondary with Tyson and Sauce. Would be like Ramsey and Bouyee all over again.
No CB has ever gone #1 and I don't think anyone has big enough balls to be the first unless the dude is the consensus best player at his position ever lol
I know that's what I mean, it feels like GMs have collectively decided that the #1 pick has to be either QB, DE or LT. And that's fine if their is a guy worthy of the pick, but I'd rather have a more talented guy at DB than a project at DE.
Hope Walker turns out to be a good player but it just sucks to think how different our DBs would be with Tyson and Sauce.
(12-14-2022, 10:42 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just excited to see how the kid develops.
My expectations this year was 6 or 7 wins and missing the postseason - so I'm not tripping about rookie development. He's flashing some good stuff, but the jags initial approach with leaving him on the edge seems to have been sort of a slow boat to China - if you will.
Walker would seem to have the higher upside between these two and we just have to hope the staff in Jax is able to help him get there. More 4-3 looks with Walker's hand in the ground would be good with me and I hope they lean that way for a while.
flsg mentioned putting Allen at SAM in another thread - and that might be a way to get more from both of these guys.
Lloyd at WILL could potentially save yet another struggling player. Just spitballing, but I really do wonder what we may see happen in the summer of 23 with this defense. I think we'll see some changes.
I think we should approach the off-season by getting another outside LB and having Travon mostly at the 3 tech and the 5 tech. I think he would thrive there.
(12-14-2022, 10:07 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2022, 09:45 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/PFF_Moo/status/1603056002055692291
So that's a weird graph where it appears being on the left side is better than being on the right. Thought for a second that Allen was doing better than we were able to tell from the eye test.
Nick Bosa is on the right.
I think it's more about being above the 0.0 line. Left to right seems to have something to do with difficulty.
I always find those graphs confusing. And I think our pass rushers are actually good. They disappear when teams do a more quick passing attack against weak coverage because outside of Campbell our CBs are not good and someone is always open it seems.
When Tannehill had to hold the ball longer for long distance or when coverage held, the pass rush got home often.
I'm just wondering if we don't get enough interior push and that is working against our OLBs who I think might be better as 43 DLs
Yeah not sure if someone can interpret that graph for me with regard to how walker is sticking up. Around average?
I really don't care about another team's player. Walker is on our team and I'm happy with his work as a first-year player.
(12-15-2022, 10:27 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I really don't care about another team's player. Walker is on our team and I'm happy with his work as a first-year player.
Same. I don't think it's a question or issue of talent with him. I think it's a question as to whether or not this current coaching staff is using him effectively and it doesn't appear to be that way. He makes more of an impact playing with his hands in the dirt than he does standing up on the outside.
That tomahawk chop on Tannehill was a thing of beauty. Reminded me of Brackens for a minute growing up. He can do more of that if they would just let the big man play at his more natural position that he played in college.
(12-21-2022, 11:51 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/austingayle_/status/...5298457600
This appears to confirm what people thought pre draft.
Hutch is a good player but physically more limited and at NFL level will win with motor and effort.
Travon and Kayvon are better athletes/more naturally gifted pass rushers so win earlier.
I know which I would rather have.
(12-22-2022, 03:18 AM)WYjagsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-21-2022, 11:51 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/austingayle_/status/...5298457600
This appears to confirm what people thought pre draft.
Hutch is a good player but physically more limited and at NFL level will win with motor and effort.
Travon and Kayvon are better athletes/more naturally gifted pass rushers so win earlier.
I know which I would rather have.
Sauce?
Hutchinson has 7.5 sacks and 3 interceptions. He is miles better than Walker. Travon should not have been a top 10 pick.
(01-01-2023, 05:45 PM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]Hutchinson has 7.5 sacks and 3 interceptions. He is miles better than Walker. Travon should not have been a top 10 pick.
While I agree with you, as of now, let’s give it another year to play out. A lot can happen.
(01-01-2023, 05:45 PM)Preach Wrote: [ -> ]Hutchinson has 7.5 sacks and 3 interceptions. He is miles better than Walker. Travon should not have been a top 10 pick.
Miles better? No, Hutchinson was more ready to play out of the box and Walker is actually playing out of position. Walker has more upside and I say this as someone who thought they should have drafted Hutch.