Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Wow ... it's a witch hunt already.

 

Give the guy his second full season as an LT before we start lighting torches.

 

It's tough sometimes to argue with the armchair GM's when their Madden game says otherwise.

It's his second season as an LT in the NFL.

 

...... unless we would like to fabricate some story about how seeing games from the bench counts as experience.

Quote:It's his second season as an LT in the NFL.

 

...... unless we would like to fabricate some story about how seeing games from the bench counts as experience.

He played 5 games in that season and got injured. He was still able to study the game and work on getting stronger. You don't just throw away that season and act like he couldn't do ANYTHING. 

Quote:How are live, regular season football games able to be " thrown out" as experience?


Caldwell moved LJ when he felt he was ready to play LT. What do you think made him ready for that?

 

Perhaps because they thought that he was ready?  Was it Caldewell or the Head Coach that made the decision (perhaps both)?  When the move(s) took place, did they expect to actually win or was it to gain some experience?

Quote:Just because you are critical of a player doesn't mean you want to see him fail. If LJ played like Joe Thomas all this season, id be first in line to buy his jersey.


I looked back at the top olineman of the draft 2010-present. Russel Okung, Trent Williams, Tyron Smith, Matt Khalil, Lane Johnson and Jake Matthews all had either hit stride, made a probowl, or showed huge potential by the end of year 3. LJ Doesn't come close to any of them, nor has he shown flashes of being able to be good as them. Russel Okoung missed the same amount of games as LJ his rookie year btw, and missed even more his following season.


The only two I left out were Fisher and Joekel. I've seen people on this board absolutely dump on Fisher, when he's played just as good/bad as LJ.


Btw... That bullrush he gave up last game counted as a "hurry". The dude fell into Bortles knee after destroying LJ. If Bortles wasn't atheltic or in a bad position, you would be singing a diff tune about these hurries.

Naw every an gets hit. That's just part of the game. I can tell you Tyron Smith, Matthews, Williams and Johnson were all looked at as scrubs entering their third and fourth years. I distinctly remember the Cowboys have what was considered one of the worst O-lines in football. Smith was seen a huge disappointment prior to 2013 dominant performance and that was his third year.


I don't have an issue with being critical of a player. Ill be the first to say LJ needs to step it up but I'm not seeing the qb get hit every play. I'm not seeing Blake flushed from the pocket every play. I'm seeing Blake have time to make throws and read the defense. I'll take that. I'm in the camp that says I'm glad to see improvement in that a sack isn't surrendered at least once every possession. That to me is improvement I can see.


If him needed to play like Joe Thomas is what's need to not be scrutinized then prepare to be upset because guys like that don't materialize very often. And hey he just might be better because he is only 23.


Looking for that level of play is a fools task. But if you are seeking improvement then you have to agree that it is there.

Quote:Injuries happen, it doesn't give you a free pass or stop the criticism. You can still study and get the rest of your body stronger. He's protecting our QBs blind-side and is struggling against vanilla defense. The only well known pass rusher he went up against was James Harrison, and he got destroyed by him. The Giants don't have JPP or Tuck anymore, and the Lions had their entire starting line sit out. Yet he still looks shaky, and that's an issue. After a decade of sucking, you need to open your eyes and stop feeling sorry or giving these players a pass. He's going to have the most challenging year because of our schedule, and he's not starting good.

 

It's the preseason, and he's now in his second new offense since entering the league, with an entirely new coaching staff working with the position group.  If he looks shaky in the preseason, that's fine.  As long as he continues to show progression, that's what it's all about.  He's done that.  If you can't see improvement over where he was at last season compared to where he's at right now, you're blind.  Simple as that.

 

BTW, one bad play vs. Harrison wouldn't necessarily be defined as getting destroyed, but if you're pushing an agenda, I guess that's how you must label it.  We'll just ignore the fact that Harrison did the exact same thing the following week against Green Bay because this is about Joeckel sucking and not the fact that maybe Harrison still has some juice.

 

Nobody here is giving anyone a pass.  I guess if your goal is to crucify a single player because you have to have someone to complain about, it might seem that way, but that's actually not the case.  Joeckel is in a prove it year.  Whether he does so or not isn't determined in a couple of preseason games by anyone but wannabe GMs who work their magic in a video game.  Joeckel has a lot to prove this year.  He either does it, or he doesn't.  If he fails, he won't have a job for very much longer in Jacksonville.

Quote:Perhaps because they thought that he was ready? Was it Caldewell or the Head Coach that made the decision (perhaps both)? When the move(s) took place, did they expect to actually win or was it to gain some experience?

So... They got him ready for LT... By playing RT... which is so different for LT that all previous games at RT should be thrown out...


Gotcha.

Quote:Naw every an gets hit. That's just part of the game. I can tell you Tyron Smith, Matthews, Williams and Johnson were all looked at as scrubs entering their third and fourth years. I distinctly remember the Cowboys have what was considered one of the worst O-lines in football. Smith was seen a huge disappointment prior to 2013 dominant performance and that was his third year.

I don't have an issue with being critical of a player. Ill be the first to say LJ needs to step it up but I'm not seeing the qb get hit every play. I'm not seeing Blake flushed from the pocket every play. I'm seeing Blake have time to make throws and read the defense. I'll take that. I'm in the camp that says I'm glad to see improvement in that a sack isn't surrendered at least once every possession. That to me is improvement I can see.


If him needed to play like Joe Thomas is what's need to not be scrutinized then prepare to be upset because guys like that don't materialize very often. And hey he just might be better because he is only 23.


Looking for that level of play is a fools task. But if you are seeking improvement then you have to agree that it is there.

 

But Harrison ran right by him and he got bull rushed into a seated position last week (granted the QB was still upright, but that has to count for something, right?)!!!!

Quote:So... They got him ready for LT... By playing RT... which is so different for LT that all previous games at RT should be thrown out...


Gotcha.

I think the trade deal was more about someone offering the Jaguars some value for Monroe, and them feeling that it was going to be a rough year anyway, so they might as well take the deal and plug the rookie in where he was expected to make a career. 

 

Nobody expected Joeckel to last 1/2 a game before going on the IR.

 

It's amazing how Monroe became this epic legend at LT all of a sudden. The same people who have brought up how bad that trade was were also making the same kind of criticisms of Monroe prior to the trade.  He was another guy who didn't live up to the standards set by Boselli, and he was another guy we "reached" for in the draft.  He didn't live up to his draft status with the armchair GMs until such time as the Jags traded him away.  Funny how that works.

 

The bottom line here is that Joeckel is in a make or break year.  Nobody is saying otherwise.  This is his opportunity to solidify himself as the starting LT for the long term here.  It would also solidify him as one of the few successes to come out of the first round of that draft.  I don't think he's a lost cause yet.  I have seen improvement and my hope is that he continues to progress.  If he doesn't, the armchair GMs can howl for his head, and when he's gone, tell us how great he is as they shred the new guy.  It's a never ending cycle of misery for some folks.

Quote:Naw every an gets hit. That's just part of the game. I can tell you Tyron Smith, Matthews, Williams and Johnson were all looked at as scrubs entering their third and fourth years. I distinctly remember the Cowboys have what was considered one of the worst O-lines in football. Smith was seen a huge disappointment prior to 2013 dominant performance and that was his third year.


I don't have an issue with being critical of a player. Ill be the first to say LJ needs to step it up but I'm not seeing the qb get hit every play. I'm not seeing Blake flushed from the pocket every play. I'm seeing Blake have time to make throws and read the defense. I'll take that. I'm in the camp that says I'm glad to see improvement in that a sack isn't surrendered at least once every possession. That to me is improvement I can see.


If him needed to play like Joe Thomas is what's need to not be scrutinized then prepare to be upset because guys like that don't materialize very often. And hey he just might be better because he is only 23.


Looking for that level of play is a fools task. But if you are seeking improvement then you have to agree that it is there.

Tyron Smith made the probowl his third year. Does LJ look like a pro bowl tackle to you? If he turns into one this season, great, I'll throw a "LJ is the man" party.


But he's not. He's playing pretty bad.


Btw, FBT and JagIBelieve, Tyron Smith played his whole rookie year at RT.

Quote:I think the trade deal was more about someone offering the Jaguars some value for Monroe, and them feeling that it was going to be a rough year anyway, so they might as well take the deal and plug the rookie in where he was expected to make a career.


Nobody expected Joeckel to last 1/2 a game before going on the IR.


It's amazing how Monroe became this epic legend at LT all of a sudden. The same people who have brought up how bad that trade was were also making the same kind of criticisms of Monroe prior to the trade. He was another guy who didn't live up to the standards set by Boselli, and he was another guy we "reached" for in the draft. He didn't live up to his draft status with the armchair GMs until such time as the Jags traded him away. Funny how that works.

Who brought up Monroe? If by quoting me, you're saying I didn't support the trade then you're making things up.

Quote:Right, because the 5 games he played as a rookie, including 1 half of a game at LT is a perfect representation of a full season of experience.

It represents a short regular season and an off-season of getting reps at both positions... Don't act like he never got LT reps in practice.

Quote:Tyron Smith made the probowl his third year. Does LJ look like a pro bowl tackle to you?


Btw, FBT and JagIBelieve, Tyron Smith played his whole rookie year at RT.

The only reason they have to act like he didn't learn anything his rookie year is because of his current poor performance they refuse to admit.


If he was playing well, the whole "this is his 2nd year" thing wouldn't exist.

Quote:It represents a short regular season and an off-season of getting reps at both positions... Don't act like he never got LT reps in practice.

 

This is almost comical, but I know you're being serious here.  By short regular season, you mean shortened by 2/3.  And if we're looking at his experience at LT, we're down to 2 quarters of 1 game.  Wow.  That should be ample time to qualify for the hall of fame. 

 

It's funny how reps in practice matter when you're trying to trash a player.  The reality is, reps in practice are good for developing technique.  Actual game reps is where a player develops.  Joeckel spent his rookie season practicing at RT until the week leading up to his first start at LT which lasted all of half a game.  Are you honestly trying to imply that this should be adequate enough to qualify as a season?  If so, it's pointless discussing this with you because you haven't a clue.

Quote:The only reason they have to act like he didn't learn anything his rookie year is because of his current poor performance they refuse to admit.


If he was playing well, the whole "this is his 2nd year" thing wouldn't exist.

 

That's crap.  He spent almost 3/4 of his rookie season recovering from surgery and rehabbing an injury.  That absolutely set back his career..  Those who disagree are just walking around with their heads up their posterior. 

Quote:Who brought up Monroe? If by quoting me, you're saying I didn't support the trade then you're making things up.

 

I'm not saying you brought up Monroe.  i was simply making a point while responding to your post.  Don't get your panties in a twist.

Quote:Tyron Smith made the probowl his third year. Does LJ look like a pro bowl tackle to you? If he turns into one this season, great, I'll throw a "LJ is the man" party.


But he's not. He's playing pretty bad.


Btw, FBT and JagIBelieve, Tyron Smith played his whole rookie year at RT.

 

First off, does the pro bowl really matter?  Is that the measure to judge a player?  Really?

 

Did Luke Joeckel play his entire rookie year?

Quote:This is almost comical, but I know you're being serious here. By short regular season, you mean shortened by 2/3. And if we're looking at his experience at LT, we're down to 2 quarters of 1 game. Wow. That should be ample time to qualify for the hall of fame.


It's funny how reps in practice matter when you're trying to trash a player. The reality is, reps in practice are good for developing technique. Actual game reps is where a player develops. Joeckel spent his rookie season practicing at RT until the week leading up to his first start at LT which lasted all of half a game. Are you honestly trying to imply that this should be adequate enough to qualify as a season? If so, it's pointless discussing this with you because you haven't a clue.

What qualifies as a season in your eyes is irrelevant. Facts are facts. Its his third year. Sorry.


You can tell who is having to shovel the most bull crap here by how much explaining they have to do to qualify their statements.

Quote:That's crap. He spent almost 3/4 of his rookie season recovering from surgery and rehabbing an injury. That absolutely set back his career.. Those who disagree are just walking around with their heads up their posterior.

We are all well aware of the injury. Yes, a set back. Its still his third year. Deal with it.

HAHA, this thread is still alive?  Can I answer the question?  YES, he sucks.  We are just going to suck until next year at LT.  I can promise Caldwell will address this in the next off season.