Quote:Once again, this is his 3rd year. I don't care if he was hurt. This is not his 2nd year in. I gave him the benefit of the doubt last year, and now he rolls into year 3 looking terrible. He is not the answer at LT. We should have kept Monroe. Once again, this is by no means Caldwell's fault. The 2013 draft was horrid, and he had no choice, but to pick the Joke.
And I don't care that you don't care :teehee: . He has played 16.5 games at left tackle. Obviously the two of us disagree as to the comparative value of sitting in the position room watching film vs. playing real games. That's fine. The world would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything. We also disagree on whether he is the answer at LT. I think we will know much more by the end of the season, whereas you seem ready to cut bait now. Just a few questions. If we could get the same value we did for Monroe, would you take it? Also, what did you think about the Vine posts showing Monroe as a Raven?
Quote:And I don't care that you don't care :teehee: . He has played 16.5 games at left tackle. Obviously the two of us disagree as to the comparative value of sitting in the position room watching film vs. playing real games. That's fine. The world would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything. We also disagree on whether he is the answer at LT. I think we will know much more by the end of the season, whereas you seem ready to cut bait now. Just a few questions. If we could get the same value we did for Monroe, would you take it? Also, what did you think about the Vine posts showing Monroe as a Raven?
No one is saying we should cut bait now. The problem is the perspective people have on him, and how they want to make excuses for the guy. He has been in the league for THREE years, I don't care if he got hurt or what he played, if he doesn't perform this season and plays like a weenie, he's done. Can you imagine the state of Joke in an AFC Championship game? I can just see it now. Crumbling under pressure, falling over, giving up 10 sacks and getting Bortles paralyzed for the rest of his life. That's all you have to do really. Picture the players we have on the team and think about which one would do good in a game like that. Playing decently and then completely whiffing blocks against PRE-SEASON teams is not GOOD. You know who's good? Parnell. That man is a MAN, and I can see him choke slamming JJ Watt.
Quote:No one is saying we should cut bait now. The problem is the perspective people have on him, and how they want to make excuses for the guy. He has been in the league for THREE years, I don't care if he got hurt or what he played, if he doesn't perform this season and plays like a weenie, he's done. Can you imagine the state of Joke in an AFC Championship game? I can just see it now. Crumbling under pressure, falling over, giving up 10 sacks and getting Bortles paralyzed for the rest of his life. That's all you have to do really. Picture the players we have on the team and think about which one would do good in a game like that. Playing decently and then completely whiffing blocks against PRE-SEASON teams is not GOOD. You know who's good? Parnell. That man is a MAN, and I can see him choke slamming JJ Watt.
Parnell is awesome.
Wait, he's a seven year vet that just recently started playing RT...
How many seasons is that in FBT seasons?
Quote:Parnell is awesome.
Wait, he's a seven year vet that just recently started playing RT...
How many seasons is that in FBT seasons?
It doesn't matter how long he has played to FBT. If you switch your position, you're instantly a rookie and you have a decade to improve! If things so South, well, there's always next year and we can sing Kumbaya until then! :teehee:
Bortles has bailed out LJ a lot this preseason.
I am sure the coaches after Luke got put on his [BLEEP] go great job Luke atleast he didnt hit the QB.
Quote:No one is saying we should cut bait now. The problem is the perspective people have on him, and how they want to make excuses for the guy. He has been in the league for THREE years, I don't care if he got hurt or what he played, if he doesn't perform this season and plays like a weenie, he's done. Can you imagine the state of Joke in an AFC Championship game? I can just see it now. Crumbling under pressure, falling over, giving up 10 sacks and getting Bortles paralyzed for the rest of his life. That's all you have to do really. Picture the players we have on the team and think about which one would do good in a game like that. Playing decently and then completely whiffing blocks against PRE-SEASON teams is not GOOD. You know who's good? Parnell. That man is a MAN, and I can see him choke slamming JJ Watt.
Exactly what I was thinking when posting to this thread. +1
Parnell is seen as a stud, and Joeckel is seen as having been playing "poorly."
Yet Joeckel has graded better in performances.
Seems like perception is poorer than Joeckel's play.
Irony being, some are wrong while being desperate to be "right" about a guy.
Quote:No one is saying we should cut bait now. The problem is the perspective people have on him, and how they want to make excuses for the guy. He has been in the league for THREE years, I don't care if he got hurt or what he played, if he doesn't perform this season and plays like a weenie, he's done. Can you imagine the state of Joke in an AFC Championship game? I can just see it now. Crumbling under pressure, falling over, giving up 10 sacks and getting Bortles paralyzed for the rest of his life. That's all you have to do really. Picture the players we have on the team and think about which one would do good in a game like that. Playing decently and then completely whiffing blocks against PRE-SEASON teams is not GOOD. You know who's good? Parnell. That man is a MAN, and I can see him choke slamming JJ Watt.
Again, I don't care if you (or CSO14, or anyone else) don't care that he got hurt. It is not an excuse to state he has played 16.5 games at LT, it is a fact( unless my math is off? If so, please correct me). And if he doesn't perform, I agree, he is done. I stated as much in a post earlier today. It seems obvious, why would we exercise the option? Have you seen anyone claim differently? Paralyzed for life? You are making the drama queen comment I made earlier seem conservative. And the same questions to CSO14 I ask of you. Would you trade him for the deal we got for Monroe? Did you see the Vine posts of Monroe? What do you have to say about them?
Quote:Parnell is seen as a stud, and Joeckel is seen as having been playing "poorly."
Yet Joeckel has graded better in performances.
Seems like perception is poorer than Joeckel's play.
Irony being, some are wrong while being desperate to be "right" about a guy.
If you cant tell the difference in play between Parnell and Joeckel, you are blind and have no buisness talking about offensive line play.
I couldnt care less what garbage PFT grades you read. Those things literally mean nothing.
Quote:Again, I don't care if you (or CSO14, or anyone else) don't care that he got hurt. It is not an excuse to state he has played 16.5 games at LT, it is a fact( unless my math is off? If so, please correct me). And if he doesn't perform, I agree, he is done. I stated as much in a post earlier today. It seems obvious, why would we exercise the option? Have you seen anyone claim differently? Paralyzed for life? You are making the drama queen comment I made earlier seem conservative. And the same questions to CSO14 I ask of you. Would you trade him for the deal we got for Monroe? Did you see the Vine posts of Monroe? What do you have to say about them?
Monroe was good when he was here, I don't care how he is now. I think it was the wrong decision to get rid of him based on how well he played for us. And you can take the "paralyze" comment as a joke, because it is, but it could be a harsh reality. Joeckel's job is to protect Blake's blind side, and Blake isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Defenders WILL hit him hard and try to get him rattled. I'm just saying it gets annoying when people sit here and act like the Joeckel is playing fine. We could have an elite offensive line if he got it together, but no, he's struggling in pre-season. That's my entire point. No one should be lenient with the guy.
Quote:Again, I don't care if you (or CSO14, or anyone else) don't care that he got hurt. It is not an excuse to state he has played 16.5 games at LT, it is a fact( unless my math is off? If so, please correct me). And if he doesn't perform, I agree, he is done. I stated as much in a post earlier today. It seems obvious, why would we exercise the option? Have you seen anyone claim differently? Paralyzed for life? You are making the drama queen comment I made earlier seem conservative. And the same questions to CSO14 I ask of you. Would you trade him for the deal we got for Monroe? Did you see the Vine posts of Monroe? What do you have to say about them?
Absolutely I'd make the same trade as Monroe. Once this season is over, Caldwell would be lucky enough to get a ham sandwich. What did we get a 5th and 7th?
As far as your 2nd question, I'm not sure what you are referencing. Please provide more detail.
Quote:Monroe was good when he was here, I don't care how he is now. I think it was the wrong decision to get rid of him based on how well he played for us. And you can take the "paralyze" comment as a joke, because it is, but it could be a harsh reality. Joeckel's job is to protect Blake's blind side, and Blake isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Defenders WILL hit him hard and try to get him rattled. I'm just saying it gets annoying when people sit here and act like the Joeckel is playing fine. We could have an elite offensive line if he got it together, but no, he's struggling in pre-season. That's my entire point. No one should be lenient with the guy.
No matter what, his mind is already made up. People want to think there is hope vs reality.
Quote:Parnell is seen as a stud, and Joeckel is seen as having been playing "poorly."
Yet Joeckel has graded better in performances.
Seems like perception is poorer than Joeckel's play.
Irony being, some are wrong while being desperate to be "right" about a guy.
PFF grades are a joke. Parnell received many of the blitzes from his side and sent multiple people flying into the dirt. His grade was impacted because of how many pressures his side received. Meanwhile, we have Joeckel over here fiddling with his thumbs, falling over, getting beat by 2nd/3rd string solo rushers. Sure, he did well on some plays, but then he'd completely whiff a block and look lost when it was just a 1 on 1. Parnell was going against 2-3 guys.
Quote:Absolutely I'd make the same trade as Monroe. Once this season is over, Caldwell would be lucky enough to get a ham sandwich. What did we get a 5th and 7th?
As far as your 2nd question, I'm not sure what you are referencing. Please provide more detail.
OK, good to know. For me, I wouldn't make that trade now, but probably would if it was an option at the end of the season if he didn't markedly improve.
Regarding the Vine stuff, see post #564, on page 29.
And the fact that you would 'absolutely' make the trade now, definitely says that you would cut bait, just as we did with Monroe. To me difference is that we have another year before we even need to decide about exercising the option for a 5th year. Much more flexibility and time to evaluate. But the way I read it, you are convinced that there is no need to evaluate further, that he will not improve.
Some of you guys will say "well, he's technically only a 5th year vet because he lost his rookie season to injury" when Luke is a 6 year vet.
Stop with the excuses.
Quote:Oh, the irony.
Talk about excuses...
Please explain how this is an excuse. Please tell me. I'd love to see your viewpoint on it, because that's exactly how PFF gives grades. Parnell received many of the blitzes from his side and they were labeled as pressures, so of course his grade won't be as good as Joeckels. All Joeckel had to do was sit there and defend a 1 on 1, but somehow still managed to lose here and there. Did you watch the game? Or are you just going to be an apologist for Joeckel as well? Good god you guys are delusional.
Quote:OK, good to know. For me, I wouldn't make that trade now, but probably would if it was an option at the end of the season if he didn't markedly improve.
Regarding the Vine stuff, see post #564, on page 29.
And the fact that you would 'absolutely' make the trade now, definitely says that you would cut bait, just as we did with Monroe. To me difference is that we have another year before we even need to decide about exercising the option for a 5th year. Much more flexibility and time to evaluate. But the way I read it, you are convinced that there is no need to evaluate further, that he will not improve.
I would for a 5th and 7th. I wanted to keep Monroe. I thought Joke would be at RT, but you know how Caldwell loves draft picks. The problem with me is 2 things: 1. He's getting absolutely man handled in the PRE-SEASON, and 2. He plays with zero passion/toughness against people who just bull rush him. Everytime he's given up a pressure or sack, they bull rush him. They don't have to use spin/swim moves on him, they just have to be mean. I'm sure Boselli is thinking he is a wussy. It's not someone I would want to protect my young upcoming QB. He already almost took out Bortles knee, and then what are we left with? CHENNE...
Quote:Oh, the irony.
Talk about excuses...
What's the ironic part?
Are you saying Parnell is worse than Joeckel?
There is medication for what u have.
Quote:Monroe was good when he was here, I don't care how he is now. I think it was the wrong decision to get rid of him based on how well he played for us. And you can take the "paralyze" comment as a joke, because it is, but it could be a harsh reality. Joeckel's job is to protect Blake's blind side, and Blake isn't Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Defenders WILL hit him hard and try to get him rattled. I'm just saying it gets annoying when people sit here and act like the Joeckel is playing fine. We could have an elite offensive line if he got it together, but no, he's struggling in pre-season. That's my entire point. No one should be lenient with the guy.
While you didn't answer my questions, I think I can at least infer the answer to the Monroe one. You wouldn't have traded Monroe, but you would take that deal in a heartbeat for Joeckel, is that right?
Stating you don't care how Monroe is now doesn't really seem to me to be building your credibility. Also, can you refer to the post here that says Monroe is 'playing fine'? Seems to me most folks have noticed that he has had lapses, including a few flat out ugly plays. Just out of curiosity based on some of what you said above, how did you think Beadles is doing so far? How do you think he did last year?