I would suggest waiting 2 more days to at least get some game tape on Joekel. I don't think Joekel will ever be a pro-bowl left tackle, but perhaps in his third year and on he can at least get to JAG. If he gets blown up throughout the 1st qtr so be it, but two snaps (as ugly as they were) out of all the training camp practices does seem a little premature.
I never liked the pick. I was devastated when we took that guy. (Same when we took Bottles).
If I was GM of the Jags it's would've been
2013-Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU (Lions)
2014-Teddy Bridgewater QB UL (Vikings)
Quote:Crazy as this may sound, but each of us has the ability to ruin our day, day after day, when we only focus on the negative.
We can be mindful of the downside, but to focus on the negative does not allow the positive much room to change our mind and thus our state of being.
Who truly enjoys being in the presence of negative people other than negative people?
Thus negativity is kind of like a cancer that can spread from person to person.
In fact, negativity is the one means by which people are controlled, because it is so easy for people to turn negative.
And like war, one has to question what is it good for?
As far as I can tell, "absolutely nothing."
Quote:WOW
^What he said
Quote:I never liked the pick. I was devastated when we took that guy. (Same when we took Bottles).
If I was GM of the Jags it's would've been
2013-Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU (Lions)
2014-Teddy Bridgewater QB UL (Vikings)
For what it's worth, I believe the Lions were the only team that would have drafted Ezekiel Ansah in the top 5 of the draft. The Lions coaching staff coached him at the Senior Bowl. Without that opportunity, Ansah's very limited football background would have been difficult for G.M.'s around the NFL to pull the trigger.
Even with the Senior Bowl opportunity for the Lions, it was a gutsy decision by G.M. Martin Mayhew to take him at # 5. A decision, along with an overall 2013 Draft and UDRFA crop that likely saved Mayhew's job after the decision was made to fire Jim Schwartz following the 2013 season.
Quote: For what it's worth, I believe the Lions were the only team that would have drafted Ezekiel Ansah in the top 5 of the draft. The Lions coaching staff coached him at the Senior Bowl. Without that opportunity, Ansah's very limited football background would have been difficult for G.M.'s around the NFL to pull the trigger.
Even with the Senior Bowl opportunity for the Lions, it was a gutsy decision by G.M. Martin Mayhew to take him at # 5. A decision, along with an overall 2013 Draft and UDRFA crop that likely saved Mayhew's job after the decision was made to fire Jim Schwartz following the 2013 season.
In addition to what you've said, there is no guarantee that Ezekiel would have been so production in another situation. The Lions have had a stacked DL since 2013 which definitely helps a raw guy like Ansah develop favorably.
I thought and still think Joeckel was the best pick we could have made at #2 without a trade down. It was an awful draft at the top and hindsight is less relevant than usual looking back at how poorly all those top picks are doing at the moment.
Six of the top eleven picks in the 2013 draft were offensive linemen and only a couple of them have worked out. The vast majority of professional scouts were dead wrong that year.
Quote:David Bakhitarri has clearly played better than his 4th Round pick slot. Yet, I wonder to what extent Bakhitarri has benefited from having Aaron Rodgers in most of the games he has played LT?
One thing I do recall is when Aaron Rodgers was injured for much of the 2013 season, the Packers Offensive Line collectively didn't look as good as they normally do.
I took into account that Bakhitarri plays with arguably the best QB in the league.
Either way, I still think he has played a lot better than Joeckel.
We also have to take into account that Rodgers does like to hold onto to the ball, so that makes it even harder for a Left Tackle.
When we have to rely on excuses to why someone isn't performing well is usually a good indicator that they're just not as good as we'd hoped. The problem I keep hearing with Joeckel is no technique, but strength. Is 10-15 extra pounds going to make him strong enough this year? That's the question. If not, then I'd say we need to find us a new tackle going forward.
Quote:When we have to rely on excuses to why someone isn't performing well is usually a good indicator that they're just not as good as we'd hoped. The problem I keep hearing with Joeckel is no technique, but strength. Is 10-15 extra pounds going to make him strong enough this year? That's the question. If not, then I'd say we need to find us a new tackle going forward.
Yes, because injuries and the ability to condition properly to resume playing LT last year are really just excuses, right?
I always enjoy the "excuses" crowd when something legitimate has an impact on a player they don't particularly like. It's amazing how the tune changes when it's someone they do.
Joeckel had an entire off season in the conditioning program, and he has bulked up as a result. He didn't just put on weight. He reportedly got stronger as a result of the training regimen. We'll see soon enough. If the improvement isn't there, I have little doubt his replacement will be on the roster a year from now.
Quote:In addition to what you've said, there is no guarantee that Ezekiel would have been so production in another situation. The Lions have had a stacked DL since 2013 which definitely helps a raw guy like Ansah develop favorably.
I thought and still think Joeckel was the best pick we could have made at #2 without a trade down. It was an awful draft at the top and hindsight is less relevant than usual looking back at how poorly all those top picks are doing at the moment.
Six of the top eleven picks in the 2013 draft were offensive linemen and only a couple of them have worked out. The vast majority of professional scouts were dead wrong that year.
Good point about the Lions Defensive Line situation in Ezekiel Ansah's first two seasons in the NFL.
This season, the potential for Ansah to see many more double teams is real because of the FA loss of Ndamukong Suh. On the bright side, unlike the 2014 off-season in which Ansah was sidelined because he was coming off two surgeries, he was able to participate in all of the practices in the 2015 off-season. I think Ansah is ready to take his game to a higher level this season but the challenge w/o Suh is certainly concerning on this end.
For what it's worth, Martin Mayhew rated Ansah as the Lions 3rd highest player on the Lions 2013 draft board. Hence, at least one of the Offensive Tackles had to be rated higher than Ansah. Probably two were. While I'm not writing Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher, or any of the other Offensive Lineman off by any means, if the draft was to be done over, Mayhew likely would put Ansah at the top of his draft board. Though the Ansah pick worked out for Mayhew in part because of what happened in the top 4 picks that year, Mayhew took the blame for the mistakes he made in the 2011 Draft which the Lions now have nothing to show for another than an expected Compensatory Pick for Nick Fairley. So much of what goes into being a successful G.M. over the long run is to learn from your mistakes.
Quote:I took into account that Bakhitarri plays with arguably the best QB in the league.
Either way, I still think he has played a lot better than Joeckel.
We also have to take into account that Rodgers does like to hold onto to the ball, so that makes it even harder for a Left Tackle.
Though Aaron Rodgers keeps plays alive longer than most QB's, the biggest improvement I believe he has made since 2008 and 2009 after taking over for Brett Favre is he doesn't hold on to the ball to the point that he puts his team in bad situations frequently. Rodgers instincts have improved so much since the early part of the time he was a starting NFL QB.
i think it's fair to say that David Bakhitarri has played much better than Luke Joeckel through this point in time. But there's no question that the stability of the Packers situation has put Bakhitarri in a much better situation. Joeckel needs to step up noticeably from a Jaguars perspective but I think another full season of evaluation is needed to determine what to expect from him over the long term. The fact that Blake Bortles is no longer a rookie helps Joeckel and the other Jaguars O-Lineman.
I hate thread titles like these.. A number of the regulars around here like to toss out insults at me because I am an aggressive critic at times, but this is just unsportsmanlike. The guy is a human being... and besides, it doesn't help the team. The ONLY way Jax will climb out of loser-dom is as a TEAM..
Quote:Crazy as this may sound, but each of us has the ability to ruin our day, day after day, when we only focus on the negative.
We can be mindful of the downside, but to focus on the negative does not allow the positive much room to change our mind and thus our state of being.
Who truly enjoys being in the presence of negative people other than negative people?
Thus negativity is kind of like a cancer that can spread from person to person.
In fact, negativity is the one means by which people are controlled, because it is so easy for people to turn negative.
And like war, one has to question what is it good for?
As far as I can tell, "absolutely nothing."
Well, we have won only, what, 12 games over the last 3 years? If we had been to the playoffs the last 3 seasons, I don't think there would be as much pessimism. But, I'm getting pretty tired of picking in the top ten just like everyone else. I even miss the Garrard days, as sad as that is, because atleast we looked like an nfl team back then.
I am staying optimistic, but keeping my expectations very low (5-6 win). Joeckel, and Cyprien on the other side of the ball, need to step it up this season. Joeckel plays one of the most important positions in football, so it is very key that he shows us something this season and gives our potential franchise qb some time in the pocket. As of right now, I view him as the weak link of the line.
Quote:That is ridiculous Luke isnt garbage he's a human being, but yeah he sucks at LT.
Well....If he stinks and has to get picked up once a week by a few guys, maybe, just maybe...
But I'll let this year be the judge.
I know a players name has nothing to do with their ability, but if a guy was named Luke Bust... would you still take him 1st after having so many 1st round busts?
Quote:I never liked the pick. I was devastated when we took that guy. (Same when we took Bottles).
If I was GM of the Jags it's would've been
2013-Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU (Lions)
2014-Teddy Bridgewater QB UL (Vikings)
I don't mind watching a game with Bottles around.
In fact, Bottles can make the game even more enjoyable, assuming you don't overindulge.
It has been pretty bad around here the last few seasons, especially if you are going without Bottles.
To Bottles, "here here".
Quote:In addition to what you've said, there is no guarantee that Ezekiel would have been so production in another situation. The Lions have had a stacked DL since 2013 which definitely helps a raw guy like Ansah develop favorably.
I agree. Ansah definitely benefited from the focus being on Suh.
Booger McFarland (TB) who was considered a top defensive lineman at 1 point in time practically disappeared after Warren Sapp left for the Raiders.
Quote:Interesting non-argument. Is it not fair to want your 2nd overall pick to play halfway decent? Are we being unreasonable?
That's not unreasonable at all. How about we wait until he's actually in a game situation before we make any declarations? Is that being unreasonable? Or, should we hang everything on 2 vines posted despite the fact people have no idea what's actually happening in the drill, but it must be Joeckel screwing up, right? Of course, they don't talk about the vine where he's walking the DE away from the QB that was also posted in this thread because, well, that wouldn't serve the agenda.
Quote:That's not unreasonable at all. How about we wait until he's actually in a game situation before we make any declarations? Is that being unreasonable? Or, should we hang everything on 2 vines posted despite the fact people have no idea what's actually happening in the drill, but it must be Joeckel screwing up, right? Of course, they don't talk about the vine where he's walking the DE away from the QB that was also posted in this thread because, well, that wouldn't serve the agenda.
I think you know I am not hanging everything on two vines, and that actually I have had a pretty gloomy outlook on our LT for a long while now and the vines (and scrimmage) only help to support my opinion.
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