Quote:What's the ironic part?
Are you saying Parnell is worse than Joeckel?
There is medication for what u have.
LOL, oh my... This has to be a joke. No way they think Joeckel is better than Parnell. They don't watch the games if they think that's true.
Quote:LOL, oh my... This has to be a joke. No way they think Joeckel is better than Parnell. They don't watch the games if they think that's true.
You can always tell people don't know what they're talking about once they reference PFT grades.
Dead giveaway.
Quote:While you didn't answer my questions, I think I can at least infer the answer to the Monroe one. You wouldn't have traded Monroe, but you would take that deal in a heartbeat for Joeckel, is that right?
Stating you don't care how Monroe is now doesn't really seem to me to be building your credibility. Also, can you refer to the post here that says Monroe is 'playing fine'? Seems to me most folks have noticed that he has had lapses, including a few flat out ugly plays. Just out of curiosity based on some of what you said above, how did you think Beadles is doing so far? How do you think he did last year?
I'm not the GM, and I don't know who/what we could actually get if we traded Joeckel. It's a risky move because there might be someone even worse that takes his spot. Will Corbin? Don't even know him. I guess we could throw versatile Bowanko over there and see if he sticks? Hahah. If there was a good deal and an average veteran LT on the market, then yes, I would. I didn't like the decision with letting go of Monroe, I thought he was good. Now he is struggling too, but that could be numerous reasons. He might not fit the system, injured, or he's just washed up, I don't know. Beadles is doing a lot better and I've actually seen noticeable improvement. Unlike Joeckel, when Joeckel wins it looks ugly and he won by the skin of his teeth. Beadles is on his way to becoming above average if he keeps it up.
Quote:I would for a 5th and 7th. I wanted to keep Monroe. I thought Joke would be at RT, but you know how Caldwell loves draft picks. The problem with me is 2 things: 1. He's getting absolutely man handled in the PRE-SEASON, and 2. He plays with zero passion/toughness against people who just bull rush him. Everytime he's given up a pressure or sack, they bull rush him. They don't have to use spin/swim moves on him, they just have to be mean. I'm sure Boselli is thinking he is a wussy. It's not someone I would want to protect my young upcoming QB. He already almost took out Bortles knee, and then what are we left with? CHENNE...
OK, just trying to get a feel for where you stand. I don't agree, but appreciate the info. From what I have seen he got absolutely manhandled twice in preseason, once by Harrison, and once on that scary play where he landed near Bortles' knee. Those were flat out ugly plays. But there is a reason places like PFF look at every snap, to get context for the way someone is playing overall. Hence the Vine posts regarding Monroe. When you say passion/toughness, I don't think he lacks in those, but that might just be semantics. I call it playing with a nasty streak. Boselli had it in spades, Joeckel doesn't seem to right now. Personally, I think he lacks confidence, but I don't really care to play armchair sports psychologist, Either he gets it together this season or not. So I trade you a 5th and 7th, who are you starting week one?
Quote:I'm not the GM, and I don't know who we could actually get if we traded Joeckel. It's a risky move because there might be someone even worse that takes his spot. Will Corbin? Don't even know him. I guess we could throw versatile Linder over there and see if he sticks? Hahah. If there was a good deal and an average veteran LT, then yes, I would. I didn't like the decision with letting go of Monroe, I thought he was good. Now he is struggling too, but that could be numerous reasons. He might not fit the system, injured, or he's just washed up, I don't know. Beadles is doing a lot better and I've actually seen noticeable improvement. Unlike Joeckel, when Joeckel wins it looks ugly and he won by the skin of his teeth. Beadles is on his way to becoming above average if he keeps it up.
OK, well that doesn't really clear things up for me. No offense but I hear you saying if we could get an upgrade at the position and also get draft picks, you would trade.... Well, duh? The reason I ask about Monroe is if he can change that much in a year, why can't Joeckel? I thought Beadles stunk last year, he looks much better that he did last year. Why can't Joeckel do the same? From what I have seen most folks say, Joeckel has not looked really good so far this preseason. Some think he has looked mediocre with a few terrible plays, others think he is horrid. I ask who do you replace him with. And if you don't make the trade, then all I hear is mewling kittens or 'I want a pony!'.
Quote:OK, just trying to get a feel for where you stand. I don't agree, but appreciate the info. From what I have seen he got absolutely manhandled twice in preseason, once by Harrison, and once on that scary play where he landed near Bortles' knee. Those were flat out ugly plays. But there is a reason places like PFF look at every snap, to get context for the way someone is playing overall. Hence the Vine posts regarding Monroe. When you say passion/toughness, I don't think he lacks in those, but that might just be semantics. I call it playing with a nasty streak. Boselli had it in spades, Joeckel doesn't seem to right now. Personally, I think he lacks confidence, but I don't really care to play armchair sports psychologist, Either he gets it together this season or not. So I trade you a 5th and 7th, who are you starting week one?
If I had to make this decision right now, as a fan, I'd switch Parnell to LT, and put Pasztor at RT if Luke Joekel were traded. I think Bradley/Caldwell are trying to give him all the chances in the world like they did with Gabbert. They let Gabbert crash and burn as long as possible, then saw there was no way he could lead this team. Make or break year for Joke this year, that's for sure.
Quote: OK, well that doesn't really clear things up for me. No offense but I hear you saying if we could get an upgrade at the position and also get draft picks, you would trade.... Well, duh? The reason I ask about Monroe is if he can change that much in a year, why can't Joeckel? I thought Beadles stunk last year, he looks much better that he did last year. Why can't Joeckel do the same? From what I have seen most folks say, Joeckel has not looked really good so far this preseason. Some think he has looked mediocre with a few terrible plays, others think he is horrid. I ask who do you replace him with. And if you don't make the trade, then all I hear is mewling kittens or 'I want a pony!'.
If it's "well duh?" Why are you even asking? Why would you ask me if I would get rid of the LT for nothing and risk getting someone even more terrible. If there was a for sure FA on the market that was better than Joeckel (not hard to be), then I would trade him and grab the FA. Monroe left at the end of 2012. So no, that's not the span of one year. The entire line was playing in a different blocking scheme, guess that goes to show how little you know about the team if you had to ask this question. The entire line was atrocious, it wasn't just Beadles. Linder was the only bright spot. And I think Joeckel is a trash-can at the moment. He's going to have to play like a franchise Tackle like Parnell for me to make me change my mind. And all you'll hear is me saying how delusional and idiotic you all sound. You can't sit here and say he is good, and everything is fine. He isn't playing like a franchise LT and we'll have to address the issue once again in the draft next year. Wow, drafting another lineman in the 1st round... How exciting. My problem is with the people that defend him and say everything is fine, give him more time. We don't have more time, this is it. This is the year he makes or breaks.
To clarify: Trade Joeckel for draft picks if there is a FA available, but wouldn't trade him if there isn't a FA. I don't think a 6th or 7th is worth it if we can't get a player as well. We need help THIS season.
Quote:If I had to make this decision right now, as a fan, I'd switch Parnell to LT, and put Pasztor at RT if Luke Joekel were traded. I think Bradley/Caldwell are trying to give him all the chances in the world like they did with Gabbert. They let Gabbert crash and burn as long as possible, then saw there was no way he could lead this team. Make or break year for Joke this year, that's for sure.
OK, We agree on the last part, at least. I am not a real big fan of Pasztor, but guess I could see him as a possibility. Guess we will see in the upcoming months how Joeckel turns out. While I am not nearly as down on him as you are, I do agree that his current play is not nearly enough to think of him as the long term solution to the position.
Quote:OK, We agree on the last part, at least. I am not a real big fan of Pasztor, but guess I could see him as a possibility. Guess we will see in the upcoming months how Joeckel turns out. While I am not nearly as down on him as you are, I do agree that his current play is not nearly enough to think of him as the long term solution to the position.
I don't think anyone is saying that LJ cant turn things around. Eugene Monroe, no matter what he is doing now, stepped up his game alot from year 2 to year 3.
Criticism for his play is warranted, we all agree that he wont have his spot for long if he keeps playing like this.
Quote:If it's "well duh?" Why are you even asking? Why would you ask me if I would get rid of the LT for nothing and risk getting someone even more terrible. If there was a for sure FA on the market that was better than Joeckel (not hard to be), then I would trade him and grab the FA. Monroe left at the end of 2012. So no, that's not the span of one year. The entire line was playing in a different blocking scheme, guess that goes to show how little you know about the team if you had to ask this question. The entire line was atrocious, it wasn't just Beadles. Linder was the only bright spot. And I think Joeckel is a trash-can at the moment. He's going to have to play like a franchise Tackle like Parnell for me to make me change my mind. And all you'll hear is me saying how delusional and idiotic you all sound. You can't sit here and say he is good, and everything is fine. He isn't playing like a franchise LT and we'll have to address the issue once again in the draft next year. Wow, drafting another lineman in the 1st round... How exciting. My problem is with the people that defend him and say everything is fine, give him more time. We don't have more time, this is it. This is the year he makes or breaks.
You could have answered like CSO14 in the post immediately above yours. Instead of offering what your solution would be, you piss and moan. and then say I am delusional for saying everything is fine (which I have repeatedly not done, indeed even asked for a reference to ANYONE who has done so in this thread). CSO14 I understand, and though I disagree, I get where he is coming from. You, however, still just sound like you are mewling away. We at least agree on the last sentence in your post. But of course, I said the same a while back.
And if Beadles improved so much in a year (clearly implied by you saying it wasn't 'just' Beadles last year, that he has markedly improved, and that Monroe could have gone downhill in 0-20 something games [your quibbling notwithstanding - end of 2012, really?], you are still dodging the question. But that's OK, keep wishing for that pony.
Quote:I don't think anyone is saying that LJ cant turn things around. Eugene Monroe, no matter what he is doing now, stepped up his game alot from year 2 to year 3.
Criticism for his play is warranted, we all agree that he wont have his spot for long if he keeps playing like this.
I am certainly not saying his play has been exemplary, and figure he will have his spot for only so long as there is no better alternative the staff sees. However, it seems to me that by taking a 5th and a 7th for him, CSO14 is saying exactly that he doesn't think he can turn it around. That's fine, though I disagree, I respect his opinion. What I don't respect nearly as much is folks who are just whining without any suggestions as to what realistically they would do. It is the same type of wishful thinking as when people cherry-pick draft selections a few years down the road, or ignore other realities of who is out there and whether they are really better alternatives.
Quote:But Harrison ran right by him and he got bull rushed into a seated position last week (granted the QB was still upright, but that has to count for something, right?)!!!!
Of course it counts. *Slams fist* it's the only thing that counts
Quote:You could have answered like CSO14 in the post immediately above yours. Instead of offering what your solution would be, you [BAD WORD REMOVED] and moan. and then say I am delusional for saying everything is fine (which I have repeatedly not done, indeed even asked for a reference to ANYONE who has done so in this thread). CSO14 I understand, and though I disagree, I get where he is coming from. You, however, still just sound like you are mewling away. We at least agree on the last sentence in your post. But of course, I said the same a while back.
And if Beadles improved so much in a year (clearly implied by you saying it wasn't 'just' Beadles last year, that he has markedly improved, and that Monroe could have gone downhill in 0-20 something games [your quibbling notwithstanding - end of 2012, really?], you are still dodging the question. But that's OK, keep wishing for that pony.
You're giving me questions like I'm in an interview. I said he sucks, that's all there is to it. I don't care how Beadles, Monroe or anyone performs. I'm talking about JOECKEL. And I did say what I would do, somehow you don't understand it... Oh well, not my problem :teehee:
Quote:Of course it counts. *Slams fist* it's the only thing that counts
I mean, its fine that he got beat by a 37 year old pass rusher. God help him if there were designed blitzes and they weren't running a vanilla defense. We'd be seeing similar sacks like last year. It's okay. Myself, CSO14, Joe, and Badger see the train coming. And it's not going to be pretty with the way he's playing. I wonder if you apologist will still be getting pissy about us criticizing him in December.
And lets not forget the main question here. Does Joeckel suck at this very moment? The answer is yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... Yes.
Quote:I mean, its fine that he got beat by a 37 year old pass rusher. God help him if there were designed blitzes and they weren't running a vanilla defense. We'd be seeing similar sacks like last year. It's okay. Myself, CSO14, Joe, and Badger see the train coming. And it's not going to be pretty with the way he's playing. I wonder if you apologist will still be getting pissy about us criticizing him in December.
And lets not forget the main question here. Does Joeckel suck at this very moment? The answer is yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... Yes.
We will just have to disagree about that. I think he is decent with up side. I watch all kinds of games where the tackle is just muscled around. What matters to me is the overall outcome. Are we giving up 10 sacks a game... No. Does Blake have to run out of the pocket every play.... No. Does he have time to survey the field... Yes.
That tells me he is doing his job. Has he gotten beat on a play here or there... Yes. Does he get pushed back... Yes. But Blake has time to operate. That's what I require of my left tackle. I don't care how you get it done just get it done.
Quote:I mean, its fine that he got beat by a 37 year old pass rusher. God help him if there were designed blitzes and they weren't running a vanilla defense. We'd be seeing similar sacks like last year. It's okay. Myself, CSO14, Joe, and Badger see the train coming. And it's not going to be pretty with the way he's playing. I wonder if you apologist will still be getting pissy about us criticizing him in December.
And lets not forget the main question here. Does Joeckel suck at this very moment? The answer is yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes... Yes.
Hahahaha. Sosa, you know they will be justifying the play in December if he continues to stink up the joint. I just hope Bortles isn't caught in the crossfire.
PFF did not rate Joeckel better than Parnell.
Joeckel has a cumulative grade of -3.9 (-3.4 pass blocking) this preseason,
while Parnell has a grade of -1.4 (+0.6 pass blocking)
Quote:PFF did not rate Joeckel better than Parnell.
Joeckel has a cumulative grade of -3.9 (-3.4 pass blocking) this preseason,
while Parnell has a grade of -1.4 (+0.6 pass blocking)
Think he was talking about the first PFF grade when we played against the Steelers or Giants. Joeckel had a higher PFF grade at one point.
Quote:Think he was talking about the first PFF grade when we played against the Steelers or Giants. Joeckel had a higher PFF grade at one point.
Joeckel has not graded higher in any game. They tied with a -1.7 the first week.