Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:People wanted him replaced almost from the start.  However, he was given time to develop, and he started to hit his stride toward the end of his third year.  That was after playing at least 15 games each year.  Nobody is willing to give Joeckel anything close to the same level of patience in allowing him to develop despite the fact that he hasn't started nearly as many games as Monroe had by this point in his career.  So, if Monroe sucked for the first few years in the eyes of the armchair GMs on this board, but eventually developed into a decent upper third of the league starting LT, who is to say Joeckel can't do the same thing with the same amount of playing time? 

 

I'm sure all you experts can pass along this mass amount of wisdom you have about how Joeckel won't develop vs. Monroe since you clearly saw the potential in Eugene and weren't calling for his head, right?

 

I was on the Monroe bandwagon at the beginning, I had him as the top prospect in the 2009 draft. After two seasons I was disappointed in his play, as were most people. He did improve after that. I was never calling for Monroe to be cut; I blamed Andy Heck for the OL woes which were more than just Monroe. I haven't called for Joeckel to be cut either. I think drafting Joeckel was a mistake, and I've been consistent about that. I thought it was a mistake even when I expected him to live up to his draft slot. But he's the Jags starting LT and not as bad as some people make him out to be.


 

I think Joeckel will improve this season (easier than getting worse when you start near the bottom), but I think the odds are poor that he will end up as good as the 2012 Monroe. Nonetheless, I'm still hopeful, especially with good OL coaching. Sometimes the long odds come in.

Quote:That's certainly a bit of revisionist history right there. 

 

Monroe was never recognized as a "darn good LT" by the majority on this board until after he was traded.  Prior to that, they were looking for his replacement as well.  If you think the only dig on Monroe was that he wasn't making pro bowls, you really must have been MIA during his tenure.

 

 

I don't recall anyone looking for his replacement, and if several posters were than it wouldn't have come as such a shock to all of us when he was traded. The only poster who I recall being somewhat negative about Monroe was the Mad Dog, but virtually the entire board fought him over that opinion. The rest of the complaints came down to nitpicking that he wasn't an elite guy. At worst it was nowhere near as bad as the typical poster commentary regarding Joekel.

Quote:I couldn't quite get a good enough look at Pasztor and Young to judge them, but I do like how Morris had plenty of time to throw with him only taking one sack early on.

i thought Pasztor played better on the left side

Quote:Will a mod please remove the comparison of a human to garbage from this thread title. It's just tacky. Discuss his skills all you want. Thank you.

 

 

I'm thinking the term is pretty well understood around here, but what do you suggest?

Quote:I'm thinking the term is pretty well understood around here, but what do you suggest?

Understood or not, tacky as hell.

 

How about The great big Joekel thread.

 

edit: Thanks.

So Joeckel was cut with the rest of the garbage, right?

 

Along with Morris, Tebow, and others around the league?

 

#eggonface

Quote:Monroe was not a player this board and the fans considered a problem. He was one of the only players that were young and solid. He was NOT a problem for us and we were NOT looking for his replacement actively.


Anything else is "revisionist history"

 

 

Precisely.


 

I'm sure several hear remember the draft conversation that year. The two OTs were at the top of all player rankings, but most everyone was of the opinion that if anything we only needed a RT because we were set at LT for years to come. What we should have done was drafted Lane Johnson and just plugged him in at RT like the Eagles did, but that was not an attractive option for the second overall pick because he was facing a four-game suspension to start the season.

Quote:Monroe was not a player this board and the fans considered a problem. He was one of the only players that were young and solid. He was NOT a problem for us and we were NOT looking for his replacement actively.


Anything else is "revisionist history"

 

Not true. There were plenty of people on this board that thought he was a bust. Those people were wrong, but they definitely existed.

Quote:i thought Pasztor played better on the left side

He didn't.

Quote:i thought Pasztor played better on the left side

 

 

Quote:He didn't.

 

Just finished watching the first half. Pasztor gave up one sack and a few pressures. He also threw two nice blocks on Grant's 40 yard TD. He looked worse than Joeckel has and he's playing against backups and guys who might have been cut.


 

Young isn't any better. If we go with one backup OT it's a toss up.

I wish this thread would die. The horse has been beaten to glue.


Joeckel is average. I think we all agree on this. He has the potential to become better than average. I think we all agree on this too. This year is his make or break year to make the leap from average to above average or better. If not we'll be looking for his replacement next offseason.


Agreed?


Now let it die....

Quote:Just finished watching the first half. Pasztor gave up one sack and a few pressures. He also threw two nice blocks on Grant's 40 yard TD. He looked worse than Joeckel has and he's playing against backups and guys who might have been cut.


 

Young isn't any better. If we go with one backup OT it's a toss up.

 

 

There was only one sack allowed in the game which tells me Young didn't give up any.

Quote:I wish this thread would die. The horse has been beaten to glue.


Joeckel is average. I think we all agree on this. He has the potential to become better than average. I think we all agree on this too. This year is his make or break year to make the leap from average to above average or better. If not we'll be looking for his replacement next offseason.


Agreed?


Now let it die....

 

 

I'd say the term "average" is stretching it for Joekel as far as starting LTs go.

Quote:I don't recall anyone looking for his replacement, and if several posters were than it wouldn't have come as such a shock to all of us when he was traded. The only poster who I recall being somewhat negative about Monroe was the Mad Dog, but virtually the entire board fought him over that opinion. The rest of the complaints came down to nitpicking that he wasn't an elite guy. At worst it was nowhere near as bad as the typical poster commentary regarding Joekel.

Actually, TMD wasn't that down on him. He went ballistic because he thought Monroe was more valuable than what we got in compensation.

Quote:Not true. There were plenty of people on this board that thought he was a bust. Those people were wrong, but they definitely existed.

In his rookie year and into his 2nd season.

Nobody worth mentioning thought he was a bust in 2013.

At the time the trade was made, at the time Gus and Dave took over, he was one of our only good, solid players. Not a bust. He was one of those gene smith picks that most people were OK with at the time Gus took over.

Quote:In his rookie year and into his 2nd season.

Nobody worth mentioning thought he was a bust in 2013.

At the time the trade was made, at the time Gus and Dave took over, he was one of our only good, solid players. Not a bust. Try again.

 

I feel like you skipped over last part of my post.

If anyone would have called Eugene a bust, he'd have been run off the board as an idiot.

Quote:Precisely.


 

I'm sure several hear remember the draft conversation that year. The two OTs were at the top of all player rankings, but most everyone was of the opinion that if anything we only needed a RT because we were set at LT for years to come. What we should have done was drafted Lane Johnson and just plugged him in at RT like the Eagles did, but that was not an attractive option for the second overall pick because he was facing a four-game suspension to start the season.

 

Um... No he wasn't.  He played all 16 games as a rookie.  He got suspended last year for the first 4 games.

 

Joeckel and Fisher were pretty well the consensus top 2 picks.  Unfortunately for us, it was just a terrible draft.  I suppose Ansah would have been the better pick, but he was incredibly raw coming out.

Quote:I'd say the term "average" is stretching it for Joekel as far as starting LTs go.

Use whatever term you choose. He's not that good right now but he's the best we're going to get until the offseason. Let him sink or swim.

Quote:Um... No he wasn't.  He played all 16 games as a rookie.  He got suspended last year for the first 4 games.

 

Joeckel and Fisher were pretty well the consensus top 2 picks.  Unfortunately for us, it was just a terrible draft.  I suppose Ansah would have been the better pick, but he was incredibly raw coming out.

 

 

My bad... thanks for the correction.


 

So then Caldwell simply flat out whiffed on Lane Johnson and chose to go with the concensus opinion.