Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:you cant be this stupid

 

I've played the position.

 

And you?

 

You don't have the stones.

Quote:Man, I have so much hope that Joeckel will get it together. He definitely has faced adversity since being drafted, but I do expect him to improve this upcoming season and there is no excuse for showing no improvement. Unfortunately, he needs to work out the kinks now before week 1. The first 7 games of the season are going to be tough. We play Carolina, Miami, new england, Houston, Buffalo, and Tampa bay. All have strong defensive lines. If Joeckel struggles, our offense will struggle significantly. Optimistic jaguars fan holding out hope here.

I hope he will get it together.

 

I have my doubts, and I championed his selection back in 2013.

Quote:I can remember running half/three quarter drills where we (linemen) where simply stepping through our assignment - no hands. Just footwoork.


The DL would step through their techniques and finish at the dummy.


Mental reps vs opponents rather than all bags practice. Ripping and swimming dummies is different than practicing those moves on people who come off the ball when it's snapped.


It's basically practicing with real people without killing each other like it's a real game at full speed.

Could likely be this, as he really didn't seem to be trying.


Or... Davis just flat out beat him. Which he's done go most of the OL through camp.

Quote:Please tell me what "technique" was being worked on in the clip, besides Luke getting his [BAD WORD REMOVED] whipped. 

 

You've clearly never been to a practice or played the game.  It's pointless trying to explain something to you when you don't have a clue. 

Quote:I can remember running half/three quarter drills where we (linemen) where simply stepping through our assignment - no hands.  Just footwoork.

 

The DL would step through their techniques and finish at the dummy.

 

Mental reps vs opponents rather than all bags practice.  Ripping and swimming dummies is different than practicing those moves on people who come off the ball when it's snapped.

 

It's basically practicing with real people without killing each other like it's a real game at full speed.

What is this "technique" thing you're speaking of?

Quote:I hope he will get it together.


I have my doubts, and I championed his selection back in 2013.

He was the best player available, so I can't really blame Caldwell For drafting him. Ultimately, if he doesn't develop into a top 10 LT, then it's on the coaching staff.

Quote:I hope he will get it together.

 

I have my doubts, and I championed his selection back in 2013.

It's frustrating, and he may very well not pan out.  It happens.  2013 was just not a good one for the top of the draft. 

 

He'll sink or swim this year.  They've upgraded the rest of the line.  It's on him this year to prove he's ready to take the next step.

Quote:I've played the position.

 

And you?

 

You don't have the stones.

 

but that was back when they had leather helmets.  hardly relevant.

Quote:It's frustrating, and he may very well not pan out.  It happens.  2013 was just not a good one for the top of the draft. 

 

He'll sink or swim this year.  They've upgraded the rest of the line.  It's on him this year to prove he's ready to take the next step.

Agreed that his performance is frustrating and that the top of the 2013 draft was horrible.

 

I sincerely hope the rest of the OL was upgraded.  It appeared to have been, but the early part of the scrimmage left me with doubts.  Still, it's very early in the process, and it's going to take time for the guys to gel.  I think as a group, the unit will improve.  But I'm still concerned about Joeckel.

Quote:You've clearly never been to a practice or played the game. It's pointless trying to explain something to you when you don't have a clue.

Haha yeah luke showed great technique on those plays.


Keep living in denial.

Quote:He was the best player available, so I can't really blame Caldwell For drafting him. Ultimately, if he doesn't develop into a top 10 LT, then it's on the coaching staff.

How much is on the coaching staff and how much is on the player?

 

Just because the consensus had him as the best player, it doesn't mean the consensus was right.

 

Sometimes in evaluating a player, 2+2 turns out to be 3, as players who look like they have all of the tools don't perform to expectations for whatever reasons.

 

But if he bombs, I can't completely absolve the coaching staff for not developing him.

he's one of the weakest LTs against a bull rush I've seen in quite some time

Quote:he's one of the weakest LTs against a bull rush I've seen in quite some time

 

the drill was designed for him to walk backwards. stop judging.

Quote:So what's Mike Kaye's agenda?

 

If Joeckel has been performing well-both in games and this practice-to what purpose would posting these videos serve?

 

Obviously the agenda is that "Luke Joeckel is bad" based on a drill in practice.  Let's see how he does on Friday and beyond before we make judgments regarding him.  Look at it from the other perspective.  What if he dominated every single defensive pass rusher during the drill?  Would people be so up in arms saying that the defensive player is "garbage"?

 

As I heard many times in the Navy (and still do in my current job) THIS IS ONLY A DRILL.

Quote:I'm not saying he had an advantage over other LTs.  All I am saying is he was not entirely foreign to the position when he entered the league.  In fact, he was a 3 year starter at Texas A & M.

 

That said, I'm sure there have been better performing NFL LTs that did not have the benefit of three years starting experience.

 

Jason Peters didn't play T at all in college.  He was a college TE and he has performed better at LT than Joeckel.

Did they also have the benefit of being put on IR 1/4 the way through their rookie season?

 

There have been better players with less college experience, but there have been hundreds of times more players who have had three or more years of college experience that were never good enough to ever even make an NFL roster. That is why your whole college experience argument has little merit. College experience does not necessarily translate to NFL experience. If it did, everyone who played 4 years in college would be NFL superstars and no one would declare early for the draft.

 

In the "3 years" that Joeckel has been here, he has had one full season of play. Compared to other players who have been in the league for that same time frame uninjured and who have also played college ball, that is a disadvantage. In fact, compared to every player that was able to participate fully over that period of time he is at a disadvantage.

 

Saying he has played 1 full season isn't making light of his experience in the NFL, It's a fact, and portrays his experience in the league a heck of a lot more accurately than saying he has been on the team "3 years".

Quote:Did they also have the benefit of being put on IR 1/4 the way through their rookie season?

 

There have been better players with less college experience, but there have been hundreds of times more players who have had three or more years of college experience that were never good enough to ever even make an NFL roster. That is why your whole college experience argument has little merit. College experience does not necessarily translate to NFL experience. If it did, everyone who played 4 years in college would be NFL superstars and no one would declare early for the draft.

 

In the "3 years" that Joeckel has been here, he has had one full season of play. Compared to other players who have been in the league for that same time frame uninjured and who have also played college ball, that is a disadvantage. In fact, compared to every player that was able to participate fully over that period of time he is at a disadvantage.

 

Saying he has played 1 full season isn't making light of his experience in the NFL, It's a fact, and portrays his experience in the league a heck of a lot more accurately than saying he has been on the team "3 years".

 

saying he has played 1 full season is about as honest as saying he's been in the league for 3 years.  

He played 1 full year and 4 games in his rookie season.  He is entering his 3rd year, where players need to make a significant jump if they haven't established themselves as good players already.

 

He's entering year 3.  No excuses - either perform and be at least a solid building block, or Dave will be looking at finding his replacement midway through this year.

Quote:Obviously the agenda is that "Luke Joeckel is bad" based on a drill in practice.  Let's see how he does on Friday and beyond before we make judgments regarding him.  Look at it from the other perspective.  What if he dominated every single defensive pass rusher during the drill?  Would people be so up in arms saying that the defensive player is "garbage"?

 

As I heard many times in the Navy (and still do in my current job) THIS IS ONLY A DRILL.

 

the context that you left out is that he has been bad or injured his first 2 years here.  It's not like one drill where he looks bad is the entire basis of the argument.

Lol wow.


If you put that clip up of Taylor Lewan, people on here would be dying laughing of how bad he got beat.


But since his name is Luke Joeckel, they must be doing some kind of (fake) pass rushing drill where the o-lineman is SUPPOSED to look like an idiot.


Gotcha.

Quote:Agreed that his performance is frustrating and that the top of the 2013 draft was horrible.

 

I sincerely hope the rest of the OL was upgraded.  It appeared to have been, but the early part of the scrimmage left me with doubts.  Still, it's very early in the process, and it's going to take time for the guys to gel.  I think as a group, the unit will improve.  But I'm still concerned about Joeckel.

 

Could it be argued that Joeckel is the second best LT from the 2013 draft?

 

Fisher played RT his first year (and stunk it up).  

Lane Johnson is a RT

Fluker is RT,([url=http://espn.go.com/blog/san-diego-chargers/post/_/id/12021/d-j-fluker-remains-at-right-tackle-on-depth-chart-for-now)%C2][/url]

Pugh got moved to guard but has played well

Armstead is likely the best LT of the group.

David Bakhtiari played 16 games in his rookie season and beat out Bulaga last year to stay at LT (strong candidate as a 4th round pick)

 

Only 4 tackles from the entire 2013 draft seem like they'll be starting at left tackle this season.  

Quote:saying he has played 1 full season is about as honest as saying he's been in the league for 3 years.  

He played 1 full year and 4 games in his rookie season.  He is entering his 3rd year, where players need to make a significant jump if they haven't established themselves as good players already.

 

He's entering year 3.  No excuses - either perform and be at least a solid building block, or Dave will be looking at finding his replacement midway through this year.

No it's not. Joeckel playing 1 full season in the NFL is a fact. 3 years ago Joeckel was preparing to play his last season for Texas A&M.