(11-22-2021, 12:52 PM)JeepJag Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be an issue with coaching and play calling. They’ve clearly pushed him to limit mistakes and not take chances, rather than learning what he is or isn’t capable of at this level and progressing as an NFL QB.
I’d rather have 3 ints and 2 tds a week trying to make plays, rather than 0 and 0 while playing dump down and not pressing.
They had him pressing and looking deep for several games and it didn't work.
The short stuff isn't working either.
Would you rather have him throw short stuff that isn't open and not get killed, or throw deep stuff that isn't open and get pummeled all day by the pass rush?
(11-22-2021, 01:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 12:52 PM)JeepJag Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be an issue with coaching and play calling. They’ve clearly pushed him to limit mistakes and not take chances, rather than learning what he is or isn’t capable of at this level and progressing as an NFL QB.
I’d rather have 3 ints and 2 tds a week trying to make plays, rather than 0 and 0 while playing dump down and not pressing.
They had him pressing and looking deep and it didn't work.
The short stuff isn't working either.
Would you rather have him throw short stuff that isn't open and not get killed, or throw deep stuff that isn't open and get pummeled all day by the pass rush?
Just run the ball and throw screens until next year.
At this point I don't trust shot and Bev to develop TLaw... Or the wideouts to get open. And I don't want TLaw getting hurt. INTs or not INTs it doesn't matter at this point
(11-22-2021, 01:49 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 01:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They had him pressing and looking deep and it didn't work.
The short stuff isn't working either.
Would you rather have him throw short stuff that isn't open and not get killed, or throw deep stuff that isn't open and get pummeled all day by the pass rush?
Just run the ball and throw screens until next year.
At this point I don't trust shot and Bev to develop TLaw... Or the wideouts to get open. And I don't want TLaw getting hurt. INTs or not INTs it doesn't matter at this point
Yeah. That plus installing a handful of new rub-routes and quick hitters is all they can really do.
Getting O'Shaughnessy back might help a tiny bit, but I wouldn't be looking deep but 2 or 3 times per game.
And I'd only do that off of play action whenever you string together a few decent runs.
I'm good with runs and dink and dunking them to death the rest of the way.
Hell, Brady took a bad group of receivers to the super bowl that way not too long ago.
(11-22-2021, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 01:49 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]
Just run the ball and throw screens until next year.
At this point I don't trust shot and Bev to develop TLaw... Or the wideouts to get open. And I don't want TLaw getting hurt. INTs or not INTs it doesn't matter at this point
Yeah. That plus installing a handful of new rub-routes and quick hitters is all they can really do.
Getting O'Shaughnessy back might help a tiny bit, but I wouldn't be looking deep but 2 or 3 times per game.
And I'd only do that off of play action whenever you string together a few decent runs.
I'm good with runs and dink and dunking them to death the rest of the way.
Hell, Brady took a bad group of receivers to the super bowl that way not too long ago.
Usually rub routes are for getting open against man to man coverage, and apparently teams are mostly playing zone against the Jaguars. I don't know the solution, but running more rub routes will probably only help a little.
Frankly what I'd like to see is more motion during the snap. Stress the defense in its ability to diagnose which gap they're guarding and run more.
I'd also like to see more play from under center. Even if it's tough for Lawrence it's something he needs to get used to. The big advantage to being under center is he can watch the defense the whole time, so he can see where defenders are moving at the snap instead of having to look at the shotgun snap first (and not see what the defense does at the snap).
This season needs to be about developing Lawrence to the greatest extent possible, because clearly that's all we can get it of it.
So more motion and less shotgun.
They aren't developing Lawrence. This is survival mode. This is so so embarrassing. Been waiting for bottom so we can start moving up.
(11-22-2021, 10:41 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]8 TD in 10 games, 3 completions over 20 yards in the last 5 games, sub 5 YPA last 5 games. Surely it can't get worse than this...
You watch your mouth! Every time someone says it can't get worse, it dang sure gets worse!!! And stop calling me Shirley!
(11-22-2021, 01:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I was at the game yesterday, and I didn't see any open WRs out there for TL to throw to.
I was at the game too, and I barely remember them running any plays at all.
(11-22-2021, 10:41 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]8 TD in 10 games, 3 completions over 20 yards in the last 5 games, sub 5 YPA last 5 games. Surely it can't get worse than this...
I doubt it improves much at all this year.
At the end of the day my topic stands. He is the worst starting Qb in the league right now. One can always blame x, y, and z but facts are facts.
Lawrence and this offense is terrible
(11-22-2021, 03:13 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 10:41 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]8 TD in 10 games, 3 completions over 20 yards in the last 5 games, sub 5 YPA last 5 games. Surely it can't get worse than this...
You watch your mouth! Every time someone says it can't get worse, it dang sure gets worse!!! And stop calling me Shirley!
(11-22-2021, 01:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I was at the game yesterday, and I didn't see any open WRs out there for TL to throw to.
I was at the game too, and I barely remember them running any plays at all.
That is true. I think we ran our 5th offensive play sometime in the middle of the second quarter. I thought we might set some sort of record for fewest offensive plays in a game.
(11-21-2021, 09:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is from last week but the point stands. This is what Lawrence has to deal with every week. Poor play design and zero separation. Would be hard for any QB to flourish in this situation.
https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS/status/146...3094887427
TLaw should have hit Arnold at the 25 second mark, having realised the Colts were sending five. Not only was Arnold open at that point but he was running into the coverage gap left by the blitz. Instead TL takes a five step drop, having already started in the shotgun, and doesn't look for an option until the 34 second mark. Additionally, he actually takes 5 1/2 steps on his drop back from shot gun as his first step is a hop which doesn't change his foot position but does mean he's unable to throw the immediate quick slant as his feet are far from set.
There are a number of issues here and they are all TLaw experience problems. There are mechanics problems as well (like hopping instead of stepping) but the judgement issues are overwhelming.
The number one attribute of top tier NFL QBs is that they are able to pick their best odds while at the line. Before the ball is snapped. Lawrence is still waiting for play to develop before he chooses his actions. It's too late then. He needs someone who can teach him to anticipate and adjust before play starts. If he can develop that judgement. Great physical attributes are simple table stakes in the pros.
(11-22-2021, 03:43 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2021, 09:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is from last week but the point stands. This is what Lawrence has to deal with every week. Poor play design and zero separation. Would be hard for any QB to flourish in this situation.
https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS/status/146...3094887427
TLaw should have hit Arnold at the 25 second mark, having realised the Colts were sending five.
...
That is not the play design. That isn't Trevor's fault.
They should have more plays designed with 3 step drops and quick hits - but that play wasn't designed to hit Arnold there.
Trevor can't just throw the ball in the middle of his drop because someone is open for a split second in a place nowhere near where his route and break are designed.
Get real.
(11-22-2021, 01:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I was at the game yesterday, and I didn't see any open WRs out there for TL to throw to.
I'm not sure the chips agree with your assessment, this week at least. This is the best this chart has looked all season.
![[Image: FEwjxY4XwAANiNd?format=jpg&name=900x900]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEwjxY4XwAANiNd?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(11-22-2021, 03:43 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2021, 09:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]This is from last week but the point stands. This is what Lawrence has to deal with every week. Poor play design and zero separation. Would be hard for any QB to flourish in this situation.
https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS/status/146...3094887427
TLaw should have hit Arnold at the 25 second mark, having realised the Colts were sending five. Not only was Arnold open at that point but he was running into the coverage gap left by the blitz.
Arnold didn't even look back for the ball until the 36 second mark, if TLaw had thrown that pass at the 25 second mark the best possible outcome for that play would have been an incomplete pass. Worst case scenario he either gets Arnold killed by the defender or the defender picks off the pass since he is actually looking towards the ball.
(11-22-2021, 05:27 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 01:02 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I was at the game yesterday, and I didn't see any open WRs out there for TL to throw to.
I'm not sure the chips agree with your assessment, this week at least. This is the best this chart has looked all season.
Yea because they were playing prevent Defense all 4th quarter lol
(11-22-2021, 10:03 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2021, 12:55 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jagua...m=news_tab
Rather then start a new thread thought I would put that here.
Infighting already going on which to me partially explains why we see such inconsistencies with TL’s development
the more things change, the more they stay the same!
We've done this with like every coach/QB since JDR's days, constant churn and redesign of the playbook means nobody ever develops expertise and fluency. We will continually be rebuilding to fit schemes and remain a perennial punching bag for opposing defenses.
I think this was adequately expressed by a Mr. Pete Townshend roughly 50 yrs ago when he sang "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
Won't get fooled again, right....
U cant blame TL.... he is being dragged down to a horrible level by the coaching staff and rest of the team
(11-22-2021, 05:30 PM)empty Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2021, 03:43 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]TLaw should have hit Arnold at the 25 second mark, having realised the Colts were sending five. Not only was Arnold open at that point but he was running into the coverage gap left by the blitz.
Arnold didn't even look back for the ball until the 36 second mark, if TLaw had thrown that pass at the 25 second mark the best possible outcome for that play would have been an incomplete pass. Worst case scenario he either gets Arnold killed by the defender or the defender picks off the pass since he is actually looking towards the ball.
That's what the calls at the line are for. The QB is changing routes/looks based on his read of the defense. If he's not under centre then he can't make those changes.
(11-22-2021, 08:01 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]U cant blame TL.... he is being dragged down to a horrible level by the coaching staff and rest of the team
To be clear, I am not "blaming" TL. I can't speak for others but I am highlighting that he has significant development still to go and that development is all in game management.
He's been hindered, to be sure, by joining a shambles of a squad. But that's they way it is and always was going to be. If I blame anyone, I blame the QB coach. TL needs to improve faster and better and the QB coach doesn't seem to be getting the job done. Get us a new QB coach because that's the only variable that can change the situation quickly. We can't change his teammates. We can't change the game play other than to dumb it down to Clemson's offense and that isn't going to happen. TL needs to get better at reading and leading NFL level games, and fast.
The panic, so to speak, is setting in now because he doesn't seem to picking up those game management skills. He's shotgunning more than he did to start the season. He's not reading defenses any better than he did at the beginning of the season. He's not improving his blitz performance. All those things that we expect a rookie to suck at in the begining are sucking just as hard as they did at the beginning. We've got a star pupil who I personally reckon will be a mega-star. But he's not improving in any meaningful way. Time to shoot the tutor and get him a new one.
Here is the issue. I and many others bought into the draft Hype with Lawrence. Some people/media, had Lawrence as their highest graded prospect ever. The whole second coming of Andrew Luck was thrown around a lot as well. The media was wrong and or lied and over hyped Lawrence. Here are issues that I and many others did not expect to see from this prospect coming out of school:
1. Short and medium accuracy issues. Inconsistent and sometimes misses the easy stuff too often. Often times makes receivers work harder than they should for short catches. AT times throws beautiful pinpoint passes to throw duds the next. As I said inconsistent accuracy. I didn't expect to see this with a prospect hyped as much as Lawrence.
2. Trouble Readying Zone Defense: I understand Rookies have a massive learning curve but I thought he would be way ahead of the curve. He is just like every other rookie coming out and it's going to take a year or two. Again the hype was built up but didn't live up to it.
3. We thought the offense would be at least decent. This offense is probably the worst in the NFL. I surely can't put on the blame on Lawrence but he isn't playing any kind of special either. Lawrence has been putting up Minshew numbers as of late without the TD's.
Lawrence is going to be a 2-3 year project to know if he can be the man. I am not 100% sold he can yet but I am more of a show me guy. Lawrence was hyped as a Generational talent that is immediately going to improve a team. Time will tell but not what most was expecting at all when we drafted this "can't miss" prospect. He has the guts, Has the Arm, and looks like he has the Leadership. He has to be much more consistent on the field.
(11-22-2021, 10:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the issue. I and many others bought into the draft Hype with Lawrence. Some people/media, had Lawrence as their highest graded prospect ever. The whole second coming of Andrew Luck was thrown around a lot as well. The media was wrong and or lied and over hyped Lawrence. Here are issues that I and many others did not expect to see from this prospect coming out of school:
1. Short and medium accuracy issues. Inconsistent and sometimes misses the easy stuff too often. Often times makes receivers work harder than they should for short catches. AT times throws beautiful pinpoint passes to throw duds the next. As I said inconsistent accuracy. I didn't expect to see this with a prospect hyped as much as Lawrence.
2. Trouble Readying Zone Defense: I understand Rookies have a massive learning curve but I thought he would be way ahead of the curve. He is just like every other rookie coming out and it's going to take a year or two. Again the hype was built up but didn't live up to it.
3. We thought the offense would be at least decent. This offense is probably the worst in the NFL. I surely can't put on the blame on Lawrence but he isn't playing any kind of special either. Lawrence has been putting up Minshew numbers as of late without the TD's.
Lawrence is going to be a 2-3 year project to know if he can be the man. I am not 100% sold he can yet but I am more of a show me guy. Lawrence was hyped as a Generational talent that is immediately going to improve a team. Time will tell but not what most was expecting at all when we drafted this "can't miss" prospect. He has the guts, Has the Arm, and looks like he has the Leadership. He has to be much more consistent on the field.
You could see hints of some of what you descriibe above in the Natl Championship game against LSU. Most people shrugged it off as a one-off, but that was a game against quality competition against a lot of future NFL starters.
Rookie QB looks like a rookie QB while saddled with the worst offensive cast in the league.
What a [BLEEP] shocker.
Yawn