(12-13-2021, 01:51 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 01:47 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. It’s almost as if they are game planning to purposefully sabotage Trevor; which, I might be on to something. Trevor did talk with urban about having Robinson in the game more.
So maybe six carries only (!) was Urban and bevell being petty and punishing Trevor for daring to ask for help.
You [YouMadThough] ask where is the QB who elevates those around him. He. Is. A. Rookie. 95 percent of rookies, even those who went on to have legendary careers don’t “elevate” those around them their first year. Go look at first year records for HoF or recent very good QBs. Manning, Aikman, Montana, bradshaw, Kelly, Young, Fouts, Brees, Allen, Burrow, and more, they all posted .500 or below their rookie years. For every Wilson and Mahomes, there’s a dozen who didn’t walk into a stacked team and had a bad first year. And even Mahomes has looked mortal when, surprise! Earlier in the year. Teams have game planned his weapons away and the defense played horrific. His obituaries were being written. But look at his staff. They adjusted. They circled the wagons. This staff has done none of that and has been petty by purposefully taking weapons away from Trevor then lying to shift blame. Not only is this team not stacked, urban and co. had a ungodly amount of cap space and picks to improve the roster and somehow made it worse. That’s impossible for ANY rookie to overcome.
Mac Jones, who everyone here slobbers over, isn’t “elevating” his team. He’s not throwing for 5000 yards and 40 touchdowns. For gods sake he just won a game where he threw twice! What’s happening is he has a staff that is building around him and scheming his strengths to give him that time to develop (or eventually sink; I’m not completely sold on him; eventually teams will counter and try to amplify his weaknesses).
Many of the “fans” (not caldrac) here are being “contrary” and refuse to see the big picture. You build straw men to knock down, saying that we think Trevor is great, when in fact we’re not making judgement calls, but advocating to give the kid some god dang help because it’s impossible to evaluate him given he has to try and overcome massive hurdles, and has to do this while learning in the pros and taking his rookie lumps. You literally get gleeful when he doesn’t succeed. Get the heck out of here and don’t let the door hit you on the way out
Context is everything right? Mahomes took over a team that won 11 games the year before and they have a HOF coach.
Wilson joined one of the most talented rosters in the NFL and a defense that basically won games for him. Neither player was drafted 1st overall to the worst team in the league.
It's all crazy. No one is saying Lawrence is lighting it up at all. He hasn't played great. He has missed some throws and he has made some bad decisions. However, he is far from the biggest issue on the offense.
Yep. To put it this way, it’s like trying to evaluate a new pilot fresh out of school, but give him a plane with one wing missing, an understaffed flight crew, no help from ATC, and a copilot who refuses to cooperate, then blame the rookie pilot when the plane doesn’t make it off the runway for not elevating the plane and crew . It’s nuts.
There is no way to make a proper call on Trevor (and that’s both ways, leaning for good or bad) in this circus. I think there is talent of course, but again I can’t say that with 100 percent certainty given the situation he’s put in to make an “evaluation” of.
Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
(12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
This is seriously the hill you're gonna die on?
You do realize that MANY teams don't allow inexperienced QBs to make calls at the line, right? Bortles was never responsible for it--Linder was.
You really need to know what you're talking about before you engage in a discussion.
(12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
A rookie QB doesn't do those things. Show me one play from last nights Bears vs Packers game where Justin Fields did any of those things. I thought Fields played well but the Bears have a much better team in a much tougher division. I have no doubt that Lawrence is disappointed in his play this year and will look to work harder there is no reason to race to the bottom when the real problems are obvious.
(12-13-2021, 03:07 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
A rookie QB doesn't do those things. Show me one play from last nights Bears vs Packers game where Justin Fields did any of those things. I thought Fields played well but the Bears have a much better team in a much tougher division. I have no doubt that Lawrence is disappointed in his play this year and will look to work harder there is no reason to race to the bottom when the real problems are obvious.
1. Whatabout isn't a response. If Fields sucks as well that doesn't make TL any better.
2. Mac Jones adjusts players and calls the defense in week 12. Burrows did it last year. I agree that rookies don't do it at the beginning of the year. Rookies who are going to make it do it by the end of the year, however. TL needs more coaching. He needs more development time. His game management skills have not improved one smidge this season.
3. Those four INTs remain jokes. The only positive about them is that they weren't as sad as the week before.
Get TL a new QB coach. He needs to learn the pro game today. Fast. His time is running out and he'll soon be a professional backup.
(12-13-2021, 03:07 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
A rookie QB doesn't do those things. Show me one play from last nights Bears vs Packers game where Justin Fields did any of those things. I thought Fields played well but the Bears have a much better team in a much tougher division. I have no doubt that Lawrence is disappointed in his play this year and will look to work harder there is no reason to race to the bottom when the real problems are obvious.
We also don’t know how much leeway, if at all these coaches give him to make those changes. And if urban said that they in fact do, do we really trust anything that snake says at this point? Or that they even have coached him properly on when to make adjustments?
(12-13-2021, 03:26 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:07 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]A rookie QB doesn't do those things. Show me one play from last nights Bears vs Packers game where Justin Fields did any of those things. I thought Fields played well but the Bears have a much better team in a much tougher division. I have no doubt that Lawrence is disappointed in his play this year and will look to work harder there is no reason to race to the bottom when the real problems are obvious.
1. Whatabout isn't a response. If Fields sucks as well that doesn't make TL any better.
2. Mac Jones adjusts players and calls the defense in week 12. Burrows did it last year. I agree that rookies don't do it at the beginning of the year. Rookies who are going to make it do it by the end of the year, however. TL needs more coaching. He needs more development time. His game management skills have not improved one smidge this season.
3. Those four INTs remain jokes. The only positive about them is that they weren't as sad as the week before.
Get TL a new QB coach. He needs to learn the pro game today. Fast. His time is running out and he'll soon be a professional backup.
Hahahahaha
"His time is running out after 13 games!"
Get lost.
I don't think anyone would argue Lawrence has played as well as hoped. But we all see flashes of what he could be. He has the arm, mobility, the right personality, etc.... he just needs to learn the game.
But I think any reasonable person would agree the situation is awful. Terrible coaching, surrounding talent isn't helping, etc ... worst case scenario for rookie qb. To write him off is insane. It's pure trolling and nothing more.
We just need to start fresh next year. And Lawrence does more than anyone. This season can't end fast enough.
Lawrence is in a really bad situation. Put Mac Jones or Justin Fields here, and they'd be struggling as much if not more. Our team is coached really poorly, and on top of it he's a rookie Quarterback. If you watch him play, you can see the flashes you want to see in a QB. Maybe he ultimately won't make it, but giving up on him already is foolish.
An overhall of the coaching staff has been the only consistent recuring thing the whole season lol
(12-13-2021, 04:12 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence is in a really bad situation. Put Mac Jones or Justin Fields here, and they'd be struggling as much if not more. Our team is coached really poorly, and on top of it he's a rookie Quarterback. If you watch him play, you can see the flashes you want to see in a QB. Maybe he ultimately won't make it, but giving up on him already is foolish.
Another year with Meyer as his head coach and Lawrence will be damaged beyond repair.
Urban was instructing Lawrence to throw those INT's right into the the defenders chest.
(12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
Wait....weren't you the one that said we need to pass eleventy billion times a game because that's the only way he's going to develop?
(12-13-2021, 03:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:26 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]1. Whatabout isn't a response. If Fields sucks as well that doesn't make TL any better.
2. Mac Jones adjusts players and calls the defense in week 12. Burrows did it last year. I agree that rookies don't do it at the beginning of the year. Rookies who are going to make it do it by the end of the year, however. TL needs more coaching. He needs more development time. His game management skills have not improved one smidge this season.
3. Those four INTs remain jokes. The only positive about them is that they weren't as sad as the week before.
Get TL a new QB coach. He needs to learn the pro game today. Fast. His time is running out and he'll soon be a professional backup.
Hahahahaha
"His time is running out after 13 games!"
Get lost.
Point to ONE good thing TL has done to lift this team. Cannot be done.
He has regressed this season. Fact. He is more inaccurate now than at the start. Fact. His throwing these last two games is the worst we've seen from him. Fact.
He is a zero progress player at this point. Does that mean he's lost? No. But it does mean the odds of him turning out to be the megastar we hoped have faded to almost zero. He doesn't know what to do out there. He does not have the skills to lead a team. And those skills are game management skills. Does. Not. Have. Them. He needs coaching and schooling badly. Get him a new QB coach and see what can be done to save him. And that doesn't mean his QB coach is garbage, but it hasn't worked. Something new must be tried.
(12-13-2021, 06:19 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
Wait....weren't you the one that said we need to pass eleventy billion times a game because that's the only way he's going to develop?
Yes. I said that was the only way he could get better at passing, which has has really sucked at the last two week. Really sucked. So now I've concluded he isn't going to get better. At least he isn't going to do it playing because he's getting worse. So it's time for that last roll of the dice with this guy. A new QB coach/mentor that can help him understand how to play the pro game. Start the off-season early and get this guy to school. Bench him. He's failed.
(12-13-2021, 06:49 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Hahahahaha
"His time is running out after 13 games!"
Get lost.
Point to ONE good thing TL has done to lift this team. Cannot be done.
He has regressed this season. Fact. He is more inaccurate now than at the start. Fact. His throwing these last two games is the worst we've seen from him. Fact.
He is a zero progress player at this point. Does that mean he's lost? No. But it does mean the odds of him turning out to be the megastar we hoped have faded to almost zero. He doesn't know what to do out there. He does not have the skills to lead a team. And those skills are game management skills. Does. Not. Have. Them. He needs coaching and schooling badly. Get him a new QB coach and see what can be done to save him. And that doesn't mean his QB coach is garbage, but it hasn't worked. Something new must be tried.
(12-13-2021, 06:19 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Wait....weren't you the one that said we need to pass eleventy billion times a game because that's the only way he's going to develop?
Yes. I said that was the only way he could get better at passing, which has has really sucked at the last two week. Really sucked. So now I've concluded he isn't going to get better. At least he isn't going to do it playing because he's getting worse. So it's time for that last roll of the dice with this guy. A new QB coach/mentor that can help him understand how to play the pro game. Start the off-season early and get this guy to school. Bench him. He's failed.
I already addressed that point with a fairly lengthy post that points out rookies more often then not, fail to “elevate” their team but of course you ignored that cause it doesn’t fit your vendetta
(12-13-2021, 03:07 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:01 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]Go through the film and show me a single play where TL called the blocking assignment. Show me one play where TL changed player positions while at the line. Just one. Go ahead. I'll wait.
TL cannot run pro offenses. He needs more development. His poor management skills are affecting his physical skills, The INTs yesterday were jokes. Poor decisions and poor skills every single one. You wanna save this guy? Then bench him.
This is seriously the hill you're gonna die on?
You do realize that MANY teams don't allow inexperienced QBs to make calls at the line, right? Bortles was never responsible for it--Linder was.
You really need to know what you're talking about before you engage in a discussion.
Rookie franchise QB's in the past have had the option to call thier own plays, IF ALLOWED. And that is the real question: is he allowed to? and if not, why? is it just not part of the offensive philopsophy by Bevell, or is he not ready? It'd be interesting to know at what point Wilson was calling his own plays in Seattle.
(12-13-2021, 07:17 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 03:07 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ]This is seriously the hill you're gonna die on?
You do realize that MANY teams don't allow inexperienced QBs to make calls at the line, right? Bortles was never responsible for it--Linder was.
You really need to know what you're talking about before you engage in a discussion.
Rookie franchise QB's in the past have had the option to call thier own plays, IF ALLOWED. And that is the real question: is he allowed to? and if not, why? is it just not part of the offensive philopsophy by Bevell, or is he not ready? It'd be interesting to know at what point Wilson was calling his own plays in Seattle.
Unfortunately unless Trevor comes out and gives an answer, we may never know, with Urban being clueless and or outright dishonest at times
(12-13-2021, 07:13 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I already addressed that point with a fairly lengthy post that points out rookies more often then not, fail to “elevate” their team but of course you ignored that cause it doesn’t fit your vendetta
I saw your lengthy post. I ignored it because the time for excuse making is done. You're right. Most rookies don't elevate. They bust. TL is one of the busts. You ignore that because it's much easier to pretend that every other single thing is wrong with this team but TL.
Will this place become as ragingly anti-TL as it was anti-Tebow after you all toss him under the bus? What you fail to recognize, @samsusaranx, is that I haven't given up on TL. I actually support a remedy. And that remedy is a new QB coach and time on the bench. See if he can be salvaged. Because he isn't learning squat from playing. This kid cannot swim in the deep end without lessons, apparently. So get him a new teacher.
(12-13-2021, 07:20 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 07:13 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I already addressed that point with a fairly lengthy post that points out rookies more often then not, fail to “elevate” their team but of course you ignored that cause it doesn’t fit your vendetta
I saw your lengthy post. I ignored it because the time for excuse making is done. You're right. Most rookies don't elevate. They bust. TL is one of the busts. You ignore that because it's much easier to pretend that every other single thing is wrong with this team but TL.
Will this place become as ragingly anti-TL as it was anti-Tebow after you all toss him under the bus? What you fail to recognize, @samsusaranx, is that I haven't given up on TL. I actually support a remedy. And that remedy is a new QB coach and time on the bench. See if he can be salvaged. Because he isn't learning squat from playing. This kid cannot swim in the deep end without lessons, apparently. So get him a new teacher.
You obviously did not read it because every rookie I listed that failed in that task went on to have successful careers; they did not bust. . I.e. it is way too early to make judgement calls for good or for bad, especially when I would argue he has faced one of the worst situations in NFL history for a rookie QB to be in. It’s basically impossible to evaluate. This is not an excuse. This is a objective fact to most people and observers. How can you evaluate a player when said player has all but been set up to fail?
You also contradict yourself. You say you haven’t given up on him, but in the prior paragraph you say TL is one of the busts. So which is it? Is he a bust? Or is he a struggling rookie in a bad system who still can go on to be “fixed” and be our QB?
(12-13-2021, 07:26 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 07:20 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]I saw your lengthy post. I ignored it because the time for excuse making is done. You're right. Most rookies don't elevate. They bust. TL is one of the busts. You ignore that because it's much easier to pretend that every other single thing is wrong with this team but TL.
Will this place become as ragingly anti-TL as it was anti-Tebow after you all toss him under the bus? What you fail to recognize, @samsusaranx, is that I haven't given up on TL. I actually support a remedy. And that remedy is a new QB coach and time on the bench. See if he can be salvaged. Because he isn't learning squat from playing. This kid cannot swim in the deep end without lessons, apparently. So get him a new teacher.
You obviously did not read it because every rookie I listed that failed in that task went on to have successful careers; they did not bust. . I.e. it is way too early to make judgement calls for good or for bad, especially when I would argue he has faced one of the worst situations in NFL history for a rookie QB to be in. It’s basically impossible to evaluate. This is not an excuse. This is a objective fact to most people and observers. How can you evaluate a player when said player has all but been set up to fail?
You also contradict yourself. You say you haven’t given up on him, but in the prior paragraph you say TL is one of the busts. So which is it? Is he a bust? Or is he a struggling rookie in a bad system who still can go on to be “fixed” and be our QB?
He's a bust. But I support giving him another shot with another QB coach to see if the turd can be polished. It is beyond clear at this point and after the last two weeks that playing time and his current QB coach cannot turn him into a pro player. So try something else. Bench him and a new coach. See what can be salvaged.