(12-26-2021, 06:55 PM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The mass delusion on this thread is to the point of absurd. The kid has shown exactly zero this whole season and objectively is playing at a "career backup" level. The excuses are fast and furious as the evidence just keeps mounting.
The best part was when Minshew went in cold off the bench in Philly and went 20/25 for 245 and two TDs and every throw was lazer accurate. Lawrence couldn't duplicate that game if you gave him 50 tries.
Keep wishing and believing that he'll magically develop accuracy, poise, and an ability to read defenses at an even passable level. My bet is that Elf Boy sinks this franchise over the couple years so far that he can get it moved to London. He's that bad and when the fans turn on him, it'll be ugliness mixed with empty seats and Khan already wants an excuse to become Mr. International...
But you guys continue keeping those eyes securely closed and tell yourselves what can be plainly seen on the field is not real and keep praising the Emporer's New Clothes.
Hey Man stop speaking truth. Lawrence is the golden boy and can't do any wrong. Every bad throw and bad decision is coaching or anybody else's fault. Get on the bandwagon and be a blind rah rah boy!
I want Lawrence to be great but he is so far from that right now. Again with an average QB we win today, easily!
Trevor had some dang good throws today and very nearly pulled off the comeback. His defense and special teams let him down big time.
The facts are of course that he still a rookie and learning, while in a cesspool of a roster. I will refer back to bullseyes post as he hit the nail on the head as to why the trolls in this thread are so off base it’s not even amusing.
(12-22-2021, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2021, 04:53 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ](Emphasis added)
I have largely avoided this thread, because no matter the circumstances, the impatience never changes. It's exhausting, especially given the abundance of NFL history from which to draw.
Franchise QBs are often not microwaveable products. They need adequate time, adequate coaching, and adequate surrounding talent.
Think about some of the best QBs in the league now and in recent years...Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Brees.
These guys all rode the bench for most of their rookie years because better coaches than UM felt these guys weren't ready to play initially. When Brees finally got the chance to play, it took him a while to be competent. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...eeDr00.htm
Buffalo's Josh Allen had the reputation of being inaccurate coming out of Wyoming. His first two seasons, he didn't break a 60% completion rate. But by his third year, Buffalo was confident they were right in their evaluations and they had a franchise signal caller.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...tm#passing
So the question is, if none of these guys were any good their rookie years, how did THEY get better?
For starters, they weren't dismissed as busts after their rookie seasons for the most part. They were given adequate time to develop.
Besides time, coaching plays a huge role in the development of QBs.
Troy Aikman struggled his first two years in the league under offensive coordinator Mike Shula. But in year three, the coaboys fired Shula and hired Norv Turner to be Dallas' offensive coordinator. The Dallas offense began to flourish, and wound up going to the playoffs in his first year (Aikman's 3rd year) as OC, and won the Super Bowl the next season.
Steve Yong was not a great QB when he first came into the NFL. Even though he had pro experience from his time in the USFL, he did not achieve success in the NFL when he was with Tampa. Tampa gave up on him after a couple of seasons and traded him to the 49ers, coached by Bill Walsh, who had Mike Holmgren on his staff. Eventually, Young got his chance to play and he wound up winning several MVP awards, won a Super Bowl MVP, and wound up in the Hall of Fame.
Brett Favre did nothing much his first year under Jerry Glanville in Atlanta. Glanville did not run a very disciplined program. After his rookie season, Glanville traded Favre to the Packers, coached by Mike Holmgren-the same one on Bill Walsh's 49ers staff that coached Joe Montana and Steve Young. With Holmgren's guidance, Favre went on to have a Hall of Fame career.
Without the proper coaching to develop their talents, none of these guys would have had the careers they had.
Finally, QBs need adequate surrounding talent to succeed.
Aikman was drafted first overall in 1989 by a Dallas team that finished 3-13 in 1988. Aikman finished 0-11 his rookie year on a team that went 1-15. But in the aftermath of the Herschel Walker and Steve Walsh trades, Dallas added the likes of Emmitt Smith, Jay Novacek, Alvin Harper, Erik Williams, Larry Allen, got guys like Michael Irvin healthy, developed guys like Nate Newton and Mark Stepnoski, and added defensive stalwarts like Leonn Lett, Darren Woodson, Kevin Smith, Tony Tolbert, etc. and won three Super Bowls in four years.
To suggest surrounding talent does not play a role in QB success-as you do when you dismiss surrounding talent as an excuse-you essentially say there's no difference between Steve Young's mid 1980s Tampa Bay teams and his early 1990s 49ers teams featuring Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, John Taylor, Roger Craig, Ricky Watters, Harris Barton, Et al. That's a laughable proposition to anyone who has followed football for any length of time.
There is a reason teams spend millions on scouting instead of pocketing the money and randomly selecting fans out of the stands to run routes, block, etc. Talent matters.
In Allen's case, it took a couple of full seasons of experience, some good coaching, and adding in pieces around him lie Stephon Diggs and Knox.
It took Brees experience, good health, and getting to Sean Payton to develop into the HOF QB we saw with the Saints.
Think about the guys to whom TL was compared as a rookie QB prospect: Elway, Manning and Luck.
Elway only had six (6) seasons where he eclipsed 20 YDs in a season, most of which did not happen until Make Shanahan became his coach in 1994 and put Elway in a WCO (11 years into his career). His 3rd year was the first of those seasons, but even then he threw more INTs (23) than TDs (22) that year.
Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs his first year despite having a father who was an NFL QB, a Hall of Fame caliber RB in marshall Faulk, a Hall of Fame caliber WR in marvin Harrison, and a stud LT in Tarik Glenn all in their primes. How did HE improve?
Andrew Luck had success out of the box, but he had Reggie Wayne and TY Hilton as WRs amd a ,uch better OL than TL has now.
You dismiss a lack of experience, poor coaching, and a lack of surrounding talent as excuses, but history is replete with franchise signal callers who struggled early in their careers for those very reasons.
All you see is TL struggling and automatically assume he's a bust. You want him to perform like the guys listed above, but won't give him the time, coaching and surrounding talent they received.
Is TL guaranteed to be great? No. But he's not guaranteed to be a bust either.
Let things play out.
![[Image: giphy-downsized-large.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/QVVTZutFRf3GuvWB7D/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Requoting as not one of these single trolls and idiots has come even close to mounting a cogent argument to counter this post, or even overcome the simple fact that Trevor is a god dang rookie
(12-26-2021, 07:40 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor had some dang good throws today and very nearly pulled off the comeback. His defense and special teams let him down big time.
The facts are of course that he still a rookie and learning, while in a cesspool of a roster. I will refer back to bullseyes post as he hit the nail on the head as to why the trolls in this thread are so off base it’s not even amusing.
(12-22-2021, 01:57 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]
Requoting as not one of these single trolls and idiots has come even close to mounting a cogent argument to counter this post, or even overcome the simple fact that Trevor is a god dang rookie
Dude you are a serious Lawrence Jock rider. You come off as a total blind fanboy and fail to see the product on the field.
In the last 2 weeks alone he should of had 3 passing TD's but he flat out misses receivers. Yes he is a rookie but with a rookie you want to see growth. All I see is regression. He looked mediocre against a bad jets team missing lots of starters. There is a lot more evidence that supports my argument he is an overated player who may not be a good QB vs your everything wrong is a rookie excuse agenda. Open your eyes!
I know I sure did hate when Lawrence gave up that 52 yard TD run to Wilson, as well as that 102 yard kick off return TD... What the hell was he thinking?
(12-26-2021, 07:47 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I sure did hate when Lawrence gave up that 52 yard TD run to Wilson, as well as that 102 yard kick off return TD... What the hell was he thinking?
He was too busy missing open receivers in the endzone (the announcers were calling him out on it) or running backwards and fumbling the fall deep in his own territory. Aside the fumble he lost in the redzone that our player luckily fell on or the should of been pick 6 he threw towards the end of the game.
Lawrence makes many more bad plays then good ones. It's not even close.
(12-26-2021, 06:55 PM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The mass delusion on this thread is to the point of absurd. The kid has shown exactly zero this whole season and objectively is playing at a "career backup" level. The excuses are fast and furious as the evidence just keeps mounting.
The best part was when Minshew went in cold off the bench in Philly and went 20/25 for 245 and two TDs and every throw was lazer accurate. Lawrence couldn't duplicate that game if you gave him 50 tries.
Keep wishing and believing that he'll magically develop accuracy, poise, and an ability to read defenses at an even passable level. My bet is that Elf Boy sinks this franchise over the couple years so far that he can get it moved to London. He's that bad and when the fans turn on him, it'll be ugliness mixed with empty seats and Khan already wants an excuse to become Mr. International...
But you guys continue keeping those eyes securely closed and tell yourselves what can be plainly seen on the field is not real and keep praising the Emporer's New Clothes.
This has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read, and man, there are some doozies to be had on this thread
First and goal on the five and can't punch it in to win the game. Pretty sad.
(12-26-2021, 07:50 PM)NewJagsCity Wrote: [ -> ]First and goal on the five and can't punch it in to win the game. Pretty sad.
Not only that, he literally threw it into a jets defenders hand but the bum dropped it. Lawrence has a mountain to climb this off-season to be a good QB. We shall see if he can do it.
(12-26-2021, 07:46 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:40 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Trevor had some dang good throws today and very nearly pulled off the comeback. His defense and special teams let him down big time.
The facts are of course that he still a rookie and learning, while in a cesspool of a roster. I will refer back to bullseyes post as he hit the nail on the head as to why the trolls in this thread are so off base it’s not even amusing.
Requoting as not one of these single trolls and idiots has come even close to mounting a cogent argument to counter this post, or even overcome the simple fact that Trevor is a god dang rookie
Dude you are a serious Lawrence Jock rider. You come off as a total blind fanboy and fail to see the product on the field.
In the last 2 weeks alone he should of had 3 passing TD's but he flat out misses receivers. Yes he is a rookie but with a rookie you want to see growth. All I see is regression. He looked mediocre against a bad jets team missing lots of starters. There is a lot more evidence that supports my argument he is an overated player who may not be a good QB vs your everything wrong is a rookie excuse agenda. Open your eyes!
He threw a 40 yard TD that was dropped in the end zone today bruh. Open yours.
(12-26-2021, 07:52 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:46 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Dude you are a serious Lawrence Jock rider. You come off as a total blind fanboy and fail to see the product on the field.
In the last 2 weeks alone he should of had 3 passing TD's but he flat out misses receivers. Yes he is a rookie but with a rookie you want to see growth. All I see is regression. He looked mediocre against a bad jets team missing lots of starters. There is a lot more evidence that supports my argument he is an overated player who may not be a good QB vs your everything wrong is a rookie excuse agenda. Open your eyes!
He threw a 40 yard TD that was dropped in the end zone today bruh. Open yours.
He under threw it. The receiver had to wait on the ball for a split second and was enough for the defender to get there.
You want and insane stat!
Lawrence may not break 10 passing TD's in a 17 game season. Simply outrageous this is a possibility in week 16
(12-26-2021, 07:50 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:47 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I know I sure did hate when Lawrence gave up that 52 yard TD run to Wilson, as well as that 102 yard kick off return TD... What the hell was he thinking?
He was too busy missing open receivers in the endzone (the announcers were calling him out on it) or running backwards and fumbling the fall deep in his own territory. Aside the fumble he lost in the redzone that our player luckily fell on or the should of been pick 6 he threw towards the end of the game.
Lawrence makes many more bad plays then good ones. It's not even close.
Entirely false, but you keep doing you bud.
Lawrence could have made more of an effort to score on his long run. I'm personally glad he didn't, but he could have. Bortles would have given his body up.
(12-26-2021, 07:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:50 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]He was too busy missing open receivers in the endzone (the announcers were calling him out on it) or running backwards and fumbling the fall deep in his own territory. Aside the fumble he lost in the redzone that our player luckily fell on or the should of been pick 6 he threw towards the end of the game.
Lawrence makes many more bad plays then good ones. It's not even close.
Entirely false, but you keep doing you bud.
He has 9 passing TD's on the year vs all his fumbles and ints. Lets not count the bad completion percentage or how often he misses easy throws.
If keep doing me means speaking the truth, I will do that buddy. Good luck with your blind homerism!
Going to take a herculean effort to fix this [BLEEP] show. Cap space helps. But, only if you're aggressive enough and good enough to get players to join in.
Lawrence, much like the grand majority of this team, has been up and down, and then, down some more, a little up, then majorly down, etc.
I expected it to be bad with even mediocre talent and average coaching in 2021. The team ended up with abysmal talent, riddled with injuries, then it was further compounded with an unconventional, out of touch, lame [BLEEP] duck of a coach instead.
2021 has to be THE bottom for this franchise. Next staff in two and a half months time better come out the [BLEEP] gates swinging. Leave no doubt that it was Meyer and lack of talent all along in 2022.
If Lawrence stinks it up next year they need to be looking for a bargain deal in 2023.
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(12-26-2021, 07:55 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence could have made more of an effort to score on his long run. I'm personally glad he didn't, but he could have. Bortles would have given his body up.
Agreed.
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(12-26-2021, 07:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ].
If Lawrence stinks it up next year they need to be looking for a bargain deal in 2023.
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Thats the million dollar question. Many have blind loyalty to Lawrence and just assume he is going to be the franchise QB. I am getting serious Joe Flacco vibes from Lawrence. This pass off-season is going to be a huge crossroads for Lawrence. Just like meyer, if he continues to struggle to hit easy passes it's time to admit the mistake and cur our losses just like Meyer. It would not be the first time the media hyped up a "can't miss" prospect only for him to fail in the NFL.
My Jaguar motto: Hope for the best but expect the worst. It's words to live by as a Jags fan.
(12-26-2021, 08:05 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ].
If Lawrence stinks it up next year they need to be looking for a bargain deal in 2023.
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Thats the million dollar question. Many have blind loyalty to Lawrence and just assume he is going to be the franchise QB. I am getting serious Joe Flacco vibes from Lawrence. This pass off-season is going to be a huge crossroads for Lawrence. Just like meyer, if he continues to struggle to hit easy passes it's time to admit the mistake and cur our losses just like Meyer. It would not be the first time the media hyped up a "can't miss" prospect only for him to fail in the NFL.
My Jaguar motto: Hope for the best but expect the worst. It's words to live by as a Jags fan.
So really all you see is what you expect to see. Pity.
(12-26-2021, 07:57 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Entirely false, but you keep doing you bud.
He has 9 passing TD's on the year vs all his fumbles and ints. Lets not count the bad completion percentage or how often he misses easy throws.
If keep doing me means speaking the truth, I will do that buddy. Good luck with your blind homerism!
Cool, Josh Allen had 10 TD and 20 Turnovers his rookie year, I really couldn't careless.
You really gotta stop looking at the box score and look at the full situation, but I know that doesn't fit your narrative when it comes to Lawrence, so you just ignore everything else going on around him.
There's no homerism here. Lawrence has a footwork issue at times that he needs to correct this off season. Too many times he isn't getting his feet set before he throws and that's why there's accuracy issues at times. He also needs to quit doing that stupid turn and run backwards [BLEEP]. That might have worked in college, but you aren't out running those guys in the NFL.
The bigger issues are the lack of talent he has to work with and the amount of drops this team has had this season. But I know you just love to dwell on the handful of rookie mistakes Lawrence makes every game, while ignoring (his good plays) the rest of the [BLEEP] show that's going on around him.
Lawrence isn't perfect and has things to correct, but he has had all but absolutely zero help around him and nobody can deny that.
(12-26-2021, 08:05 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ].
If Lawrence stinks it up next year they need to be looking for a bargain deal in 2023.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Thats the million dollar question. Many have blind loyalty to Lawrence and just assume he is going to be the franchise QB. I am getting serious Joe Flacco vibes from Lawrence. This pass off-season is going to be a huge crossroads for Lawrence. Just like meyer, if he continues to struggle to hit easy passes it's time to admit the mistake and cur our losses just like Meyer. It would not be the first time the media hyped up a "can't miss" prospect only for him to fail in the NFL.
My Jaguar motto: Hope for the best but expect the worst. It's words to live by as a Jags fan.
I think it depends on the staff and general manager. If Caldwell, McDaniels or Pederson can't fix him then nobody can. This year he got fed to the wolves and he was not prepared thanks to the lack of support from his coach and the controveries and drama circulating him.
Year two with him I expect to see consistency between getting rid of the ball timely, not running backwards when a play breaks down and better accuracy in the short passing game. The deep ball accuracy should improve with an actual deep threat.
I think he's a fan of the TE's in the passing game. He liked Arnold before he got hurt. O'Shaughnessy was getting a ton of looks already when he got back.
I think my patience with QBs is boiled down to two and a half years now. Can't let a guy hold you back and pass up on a good one. We saw that happen with Leftwich, Gabbert and Bortles.
Year one? Hit or miss. Fine. Give you a pass.
Year two? Better be finishing drives, protecting the football and making routine pitch and catch plays that keep you alive.
Year three? Better be lighting it the [BLEEP] up by week eight, nine or I am already looking at your back up.
At this point. I can't grade him fairly. High end? He's maybe Matt Ryan with a lot more athleticism. Low end? He's maybe Alex Smith that blooms later on down the road elsewhere.
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(12-26-2021, 07:53 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2021, 07:52 PM)Khan Artist Wrote: [ -> ]He threw a 40 yard TD that was dropped in the end zone today bruh. Open yours.
He under threw it. The receiver had to wait on the ball for a split second and was enough for the defender to get there.
You want and insane stat!
Lawrence may not break 10 passing TD's in a 17 game season. Simply outrageous this is a possibility in week 16
Man. You really have no idea what you’re talking about.
That was a TD that was dropped. Not the one that was called for PI but the one that was literally dropped into the belly of the WR and he dropped it.
You love to call people fan boys for defending a rookie QB who has had an uphill battle all season with the worst HC in NFL history and absolutely no playmakers. However, you can’t see good throws or good plays when they actually happen.
When Trevor ends up being really good, do us all a favor and don’t post. Because I for sure won’t forget and will remind you…. Just like when Ronster boycotted.
Loser.
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