I am not sure where I stand on Bevell, because honestly, with all the confusing reports and Urban's record of "trust", I don't know who to believe as to who actually does what. Does Urban really not micromanage? Or is Bevell only doing what he wants? Who is in control of the offensive philosophy and gameplans? Probably won't know until offeason when the dust settles.
(12-13-2021, 07:20 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ] (12-13-2021, 07:13 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I already addressed that point with a fairly lengthy post that points out rookies more often then not, fail to “elevate” their team but of course you ignored that cause it doesn’t fit your vendetta
I saw your lengthy post. I ignored it because the time for excuse making is done. You're right. Most rookies don't elevate. They bust. TL is one of the busts. You ignore that because it's much easier to pretend that every other single thing is wrong with this team but TL.
Will this place become as ragingly anti-TL as it was anti-Tebow after you all toss him under the bus? What you fail to recognize, @samsusaranx, is that I haven't given up on TL. I actually support a remedy. And that remedy is a new QB coach and time on the bench. See if he can be salvaged. Because he isn't learning squat from playing. This kid cannot swim in the deep end without lessons, apparently. So get him a new teacher.
I will gladly roast the hell out of TLaw if he decides to start playing TE for us a decade from now. Nice red herring.
Fine, I'll play along. How much time on the bench do you believe is needed to develop a player into a reliable starter? Do you not believe that he's getting time during the week in film study or on the practice field to learn from CJ? At this point, I'll discount the contribution of coaches and coordinators, since they are common to both QB so the effect would be even from one player to the other. If CJ appears just as miserable after TLaw is benched, what then? Throw TLaw back to the wolves, but now with the added benefit of his uncertain role as leader of the offense?
If WR are running crap routes or dropping catchable throws, we should bench them too, right? maybe they can learn from the others on the squad, and end up less ham-handed once they are called back into play?
Heck, maybe next year we'll see in the preseason that Walker Little, Andre Cisco and Travis Etienne are future all-pros thanks to all that time they got to learn from the sidelines too.
(12-14-2021, 03:15 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2021, 02:55 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Bevell is the best OC we'll see in Jville? Bahahahaha
Dude is garbage. Stop. I'd take Hack and Gruden right now with Trevor at QB. Probably a few more from previous failed regimes as well.
Either way it's players not plays. Until the roster improves the play won't. And with Urban building the roster it's gone from Caldwell bad to Baalke worse.
Imagine that. Meyer and Baalke have mismanaged this roster and Meyer doesn't know how to run an NFL team.
Who saw that coming
Why is Bevell garbage if it's the players? Looks like you can't make up your mind. This is because you're not thinking, just feeling.
Now, let's try to think. Look at Bevell's track record before coming here. Do you honestly think anyone will be better than that and still want to come to Jacksonville? Any OC with a better record will be here as an inexperienced rookie HC.
Look at the makeup of this roster. What did they have to build upon? JRob was a workhorse as a rookie, the majority of our line are run-first blockers that are less suited to the finesse and footwork required of pass blockers. We bring in a rookie QB and replaced nearly all of the receivers on this roster by week 1. So how did we approach our rookie's initiation? 51 passes and a virtually complete abandonment of the run game. Continual playcalling that leaves us in 3rd and long situations. And despite the struggles of our QB, the team continues to fail to adjust our scheme to even attempt to develop a running game to take some of the pressure off the QB and receivers. The OC (or higher) are setting the team up to fail, plain and simple, and that is why the OC is considered garbage.
Go back and look at Jedd Fisch's offense. It wasn't pretty, but it used the players we had where they had a chance to succeed. bubble screens replaced the run game. slants created quick pass opportunities to negate pass rush vulnerability and get players open. It feels gross, but dang if I don't long for those days again.
(12-14-2021, 11:35 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure where I stand on Bevell, because honestly, with all the confusing reports and Urban's record of "trust", I don't know who to believe as to who actually does what. Does Urban really not micromanage? Or is Bevell only doing what he wants? Who is in control of the offensive philosophy and gameplans? Probably won't know until offeason when the dust settles.
Yeah, I am not willing to wait to find out more about it. Both should be gone or they are gonna ruin Trevor even more.
(12-14-2021, 12:02 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2021, 03:15 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]Why is Bevell garbage if it's the players? Looks like you can't make up your mind. This is because you're not thinking, just feeling.
Now, let's try to think. Look at Bevell's track record before coming here. Do you honestly think anyone will be better than that and still want to come to Jacksonville? Any OC with a better record will be here as an inexperienced rookie HC.
Look at the makeup of this roster. What did they have to build upon? JRob was a workhorse as a rookie, the majority of our line are run-first blockers that are less suited to the finesse and footwork required of pass blockers. We bring in a rookie QB and replaced nearly all of the receivers on this roster by week 1. So how did we approach our rookie's initiation? 51 passes and a virtually complete abandonment of the run game. Continual playcalling that leaves us in 3rd and long situations. And despite the struggles of our QB, the team continues to fail to adjust our scheme to even attempt to develop a running game to take some of the pressure off the QB and receivers. The OC (or higher) are setting the team up to fail, plain and simple, and that is why the OC is considered garbage.
Go back and look at Jedd Fisch's offense. It wasn't pretty, but it used the players we had where they had a chance to succeed. bubble screens replaced the run game. slants created quick pass opportunities to negate pass rush vulnerability and get players open. It feels gross, but dang if I don't long for those days again.
You make a few valid points you shouldn't forget that the coaches don't think they have a good group of runningbacks. They have Carlos Hyde and some slow UDFA..what was his name again? Whether that is Meyer or Bevell or both I don't know but I've seen that they've been trying with screens to Shenault instead.
I also disagree that coaches are setting Lawrence up to fail and that that's the reason Bevell is considered garbage. It's because Lawrence is playing like he does that posters start to blame the coaches. It couldn't be that Lawrence is at fault, could it? This is why it's concerning that, unlike the head coach, both the coordinator and qb coach have been around for a long time and have had success. If they can't make Lawrence progress then what hope is there?
Posters like to look at various names to replace coaches but that's where I think it's relevant to be clear what kind of track record Bevell actually has. How many Super Bowl winning coordinators do you think there really are? Then you can only pray that whoever you bring in will work out in Jacksonville...
It's probably best to get rid of everyone because we won't know who said or did what during this season but let's be realistic about the issues we faced this season.
(12-14-2021, 02:02 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2021, 12:02 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Look at the makeup of this roster. What did they have to build upon? JRob was a workhorse as a rookie, the majority of our line are run-first blockers that are less suited to the finesse and footwork required of pass blockers. We bring in a rookie QB and replaced nearly all of the receivers on this roster by week 1. So how did we approach our rookie's initiation? 51 passes and a virtually complete abandonment of the run game. Continual playcalling that leaves us in 3rd and long situations. And despite the struggles of our QB, the team continues to fail to adjust our scheme to even attempt to develop a running game to take some of the pressure off the QB and receivers. The OC (or higher) are setting the team up to fail, plain and simple, and that is why the OC is considered garbage.
Go back and look at Jedd Fisch's offense. It wasn't pretty, but it used the players we had where they had a chance to succeed. bubble screens replaced the run game. slants created quick pass opportunities to negate pass rush vulnerability and get players open. It feels gross, but dang if I don't long for those days again.
You make a few valid points you shouldn't forget that the coaches don't think they have a good group of runningbacks. They have Carlos Hyde and some slow UDFA..what was his name again? Whether that is Meyer or Bevell or both I don't know but I've seen that they've been trying with screens to Shenault instead.
I also disagree that coaches are setting Lawrence up to fail and that that's the reason Bevell is considered garbage. It's because Lawrence is playing like he does that posters start to blame the coaches. It couldn't be that Lawrence is at fault, could it? This is why it's concerning that, unlike the head coach, both the coordinator and qb coach have been around for a long time and have had success. If they can't make Lawrence progress then what hope is there?
Posters like to look at various names to replace coaches but that's where I think it's relevant to be clear what kind of track record Bevell actually has. How many Super Bowl winning coordinators do you think there really are? Then you can only pray that whoever you bring in will work out in Jacksonville...
It's probably best to get rid of everyone because we won't know who said or did what during this season but let's be realistic about the issues we faced this season.
Look, I'm not saying Bevell and Shotty are bums, but go watch some Patriots games and then watch Jags games. Mac Jones has been put in a position to succeed by the scheme the team is running. Trevor Lawrence is essentially being asked to do everything by himself.
The Patriots don't have world beaters at WR and running back. They have good TEs, but their offense is well coached. They game plan around their flaws and they don't ask their rookie QB to put it all on his shoulders by putting him in poor situations. It's night and day.
Bevell got a lot of criticism for not running enough in his previous stops as well.
(12-13-2021, 11:33 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]New York Post : The Jaguars might have a Trevor Lawrence problem, too.
https://nypost.com/2021/12/13/the-jaguar...oblem-too/
Just wanted to focus specifically on the second throw from this article. No matter the bad coaching/supporting cast/etc. that Lawrence has around him, this is a throw an NFL QB can't make. In this play Trevor has all the time an NFL QB is going to get (can't blame the OL.) He stares down the route the entire play (the defense is clearly in zone and watching his eyes.) He throws to a receiver who is not only covered, but is closely surrounded by 2 (and a third overtop) players that are going to make a play on the pass. And finally, there is an underneath receiver 5 yards downfield who is WIDE open (top of the screen) and could EASILY get 10 yards, if not a first down) on 2nd and 16.
Now I see that I'm focusing on just one play from a rookie QB, but I think it is clearly a play that you're hoping you're QB can make a better decision on, regardless of the time on the clock--heck the open guy could have gotten out of bounds.
My general point is that despite the other troubles, this is a play that could be used to specifically develop Trevor's ability to read an NFL defense and make better decisions on the field.
(12-14-2021, 11:35 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sure where I stand on Bevell, because honestly, with all the confusing reports and Urban's record of "trust", I don't know who to believe as to who actually does what. Does Urban really not micromanage? Or is Bevell only doing what he wants? Who is in control of the offensive philosophy and gameplans? Probably won't know until offeason when the dust settles.
Bevell is calling the plays, Meyer rarely says anything into the microphone. While we don't know who is setting the game plan, Meyer has always liked to run the ball. Bevell never likes to run it.
I'm not sure what is going on because you would think Meyer had control and would fix the running issue but nothing is done about it.
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(12-15-2021, 01:13 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Watching old clips reacting to the Jaguars' off-season choices in hindsight...
https://youtu.be/I8LaxPAkdZI
2nd comment in the comment's section, posted 10 months ago when the clip dropped:
Spot on.
Baalke who can't find a WR to save his life. Bevelle who doesn't run the ball with the big game on the line. Setting him up to be Gabbert 2.0. Should just pull an Eli. LOL.
Spot on. This offense has been plagued with these very same issues all year long.
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It will be very interesting to see what happens now.
(12-16-2021, 02:16 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]It will be very interesting to see what happens now.
I don’t see much changing. Only four games left, with the same crappy personnel. I can see Trevor playing slightly better but he is going to need an off-season of coaching and some weapons to really turn it around
(12-16-2021, 07:22 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2021, 02:16 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]It will be very interesting to see what happens now.
I don’t see much changing. Only four games left, with the same crappy personnel. I can see Trevor playing slightly better but he is going to need an off-season of coaching and some weapons to really turn it around
I wouldn't be surprised to see a victory Sunday. We're playing the worst team in the league (other than us), the players will feel like a weight has been lifted off their shoulders, and they'll all be aware that they are putting themselves on tape for the next coach or their next team.
Who will the blame shift to now since Meyer is gone?
The oline? The O coordinator? The WRs?
(12-16-2021, 03:09 PM)YouMadThough Wrote: [ -> ]Who will the blame shift to now since Meyer is gone?
The oline? The O coordinator? The WRs?
Urban built this awful offense (minus Jones and Robinson) that is failing Trevor. He is gone, but the players are not. A whole offseason of screw ups and a regular season from hell cannot be fixed in four games, but I am sure you will continue to pound the table to drop Trevor after one season of "evaluation".
This thread wont be aging well in a years time imho
Meyer took what could be done in 2 years and made jt a 4 year plan. We will probably need 2 drafts and 2 free agency periods to shake out the crap that was assembled this year.
Wins are not the measure in 2022. We need progress and players to develop in a friendly system that can produce points and cause some chances. I wanted to see development this year but it was pissed away by Baalke and Meyer.
I think Lawrence needs an offseason in a new offense designed for him and new acquisitions before we know how much of his flashes might become commonplace.
(12-16-2021, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think Lawrence needs an offseason in a new offense designed for him and new acquisitions before we know how much of his flashes might become commonplace.
Nate Tice did some film work on the Bengals and my sweet lord those play designs were beautiful.
![[Image: 5xx6z8.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/5xx6z8.jpg)