Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(12-27-2021, 08:06 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 02:16 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Oh look, someone got snippy because he was the one who made the comparison and he now has egg on his face.

And Bortles? HAA

Bortles 2014 Completion Percentage : 58.9 
Trevor's 2021 Completion Percentage:  58.7

Bortles YPA: 6.1
Trevors YPA: 5.9

Bortles YPG: 207
Lawrence 2021 YPG: 215.0



Bortles 2014 Yards: 2908
Trevor 2021 Yards: 3225

Bortles Passer rating: 69.5
Trevor Passer Rating 2021: 70.6

Bortles QBR: 26.7
Trevor QBR: 32.5

Bortles 1D Passing: 136
Trevor 1D Passing: 158

Bortles  Rush Yards /TD's / 1D: 419/ 0/ 28
Trevor:  Rush Yards / TD's / 1D: 301/ 2 / 18

Bortles INT: 17
Trevor: 14

Bortles game winning drives: 1
Trevor game winning drives: 2

Bortles and Trevor basically even in two categories (0.2 difference in those), threw only 2 more touchdowns, rushed a bit better although Trevor scored, and was worse in all other categories, and he played 14 games as (technically 13.5).

Do you even think before you post?

---

You're putting words in my mouth. I wasn't the one who made a dumb claim that Trevor is playing like Gabbert. The evidence speaks that he is having a better rookie year then both Bortles and Gabbert, with an arguably dead even or worse  roster situation. Bortles had Hurns and Robinson his first year. Jones maybe sniff's Hurns jock, but not by much. Doesn't mean I am happy, just showing trolls are gonna troll. I could post twenty different QB's who had inconsistent or downright bad rookie years and went on to have a good career, and trolls just handwave it. This [Gabbert / Bortles vs. Lawrence] was their chosen metric, not mine.

Also he left out somehthing.  Bortles 11 Tds in 13 games started.  Lawrence with 9 tds in 15 games started.  Hmmm

---

(12-27-2021, 03:43 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't completion percentage the closest metric to determine that? If so, he's exactly what I think he is (and most likely will be as a rookie): up and down. 

Then again, how do you break down that to throws that truly weren't accurate, throws that hit the receiver in the hands, or throws where the WR ran the wrong route (e.g. the Tennessee debacle)

---

I agree in a sense that making a judgement call either way is premature (i.e. we don't exactly what he will be; I see positive signs but hey, I'm not a pro). 

But some in this thread have already labeled him, and no amount of reasoning will get them to wait and see.

That goes both ways buddy.  Some have crowned Lawrence a hall of famer as soon as we drafted him.  You know what will shut people like me up?  Good play on the field.  Lets see a QB who is a franchise guy and play at a somewhat high level.  For the fact that he has regressed his rookie year is a huge red flag.   I haven't seen anyone claiming he is a bust yet but after this year everyone should have some doubts.

Again, your reading comprehension is poor. I did mention it (bolded). 



SMH

The excuses you guys are making for Lawrence just keep growing and growing and becoming more ridiculous and desperate. I get it. He was touted as some "Generational Talent" who could come right in and elevate everyone around him by, well, everyone in the sports media and most of you guys who think you are "smart football guys" are really just ESPN whores who parrot whatever the baseline of consensus opinion is. So there's that.

Lots of outright lies here in this last page of thread. Lawrence was terrible from the jump even with better receivers and OL than Minshew ever had. Coaching being worse than last year is just an attempt to cover for Lawrence's inept play. Somebody has to take the fall for a QB who can't even make the easy throws underneath when down 21 and the Defense is conceding the first 10 yards from scrimmage and who shows no ability to read the field or make the tight window throws that the last guy made in his sleep. Can't be Lawrence's fault. Nope. Gotta be scheme, coaching or receivers. Again, the excuses and lies keep coming to deny the reality of what is shown plainly on the field.

And stop with the phony narrative about Minshew. Defenses never "figured him out". He scorched the Colts on the final game of 2019 and they had AN ENTIRE OFFSEASON to scout him and he still went 19/20 for 3 tds and 0 picks and set an NFL record for accuracy in. And then he scorched the Titans for 27/35 and 295 with 3 tds and 1 pick and they had an ENTIRE YEAR to scout him too. It was only when he fractured his thumb that his performance fell off and he still played leagues better with a @$%# broken hand that this guy who you all are fawning over with excuses and support.

I get your desperation to believe, but stop with the exaggerations. Lawrence has shown zero in his rookie season. Not a flash. No come from behind wins, no epic plays, not one game that says he is anything other than a career backup in skills, poise, leadership or grit. The negatives are ground and pounding whatever dreamy and fantastical positives you concoct. If he even ends up being a Jared Goff level starter longterm in this league I'd be shocked and inclined to name him "Comeback Player of the Year".

(12-27-2021, 08:46 PM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The excuses you guys are making for Lawrence just keep growing and growing and becoming more ridiculous and desperate. I get it. He was touted as some "Generational Talent" who could come right in and elevate everyone around him by, well, everyone in the sports media and most of you guys who think you are "smart football guys" are really just ESPN whores who parrot whatever the baseline of consensus opinion is. So there's that.

Lots of outright lies here in this last page of thread. Lawrence was terrible from the jump even with better receivers and OL than Minshew ever had. Coaching being worse than last year is just an attempt to cover for Lawrence's inept play. Somebody has to take the fall for a QB who can't even make the easy throws underneath when down 21 and the Defense is conceding the first 10 yards from scrimmage and who shows no ability to read the field or make the tight window throws that the last guy made in his sleep. Can't be Lawrence's fault. Nope. Gotta be scheme, coaching or receivers. Again, the excuses and lies keep coming to deny the reality of what is shown plainly on the field.

And stop with the phony narrative about Minshew. Defenses never "figured him out". He scorched the Colts on the final game of 2019 and they had AN ENTIRE OFFSEASON to scout him and he still went 19/20 for 3 tds and 0 picks and set an NFL record for accuracy in. And then he scorched the Titans for 27/35 and 295 with 3 tds and 1 pick and they had an ENTIRE YEAR to scout him too. It was only when he fractured his thumb that his performance fell off and he still played leagues better with a @$%# broken hand that this guy who you all are fawning over with excuses and support.

I get your desperation to believe, but stop with the exaggerations. Lawrence has shown zero in his rookie season. Not a flash. No come from behind wins, no epic plays, not one game that says he is anything other than a career backup in skills, poise, leadership or grit. The negatives are ground and pounding whatever dreamy and fantastical positives you concoct. If he even ends up being a Jared Goff level starter longterm in this league I'd be shocked and inclined to name him "Comeback Player of the Year".

I believe you are looking for the Eagles forum sir

(12-27-2021, 08:48 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 08:46 PM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The excuses you guys are making for Lawrence just keep growing and growing and becoming more ridiculous and desperate. I get it. He was touted as some "Generational Talent" who could come right in and elevate everyone around him by, well, everyone in the sports media and most of you guys who think you are "smart football guys" are really just ESPN whores who parrot whatever the baseline of consensus opinion is. So there's that.

Lots of outright lies here in this last page of thread. Lawrence was terrible from the jump even with better receivers and OL than Minshew ever had. Coaching being worse than last year is just an attempt to cover for Lawrence's inept play. Somebody has to take the fall for a QB who can't even make the easy throws underneath when down 21 and the Defense is conceding the first 10 yards from scrimmage and who shows no ability to read the field or make the tight window throws that the last guy made in his sleep. Can't be Lawrence's fault. Nope. Gotta be scheme, coaching or receivers. Again, the excuses and lies keep coming to deny the reality of what is shown plainly on the field.

And stop with the phony narrative about Minshew. Defenses never "figured him out". He scorched the Colts on the final game of 2019 and they had AN ENTIRE OFFSEASON to scout him and he still went 19/20 for 3 tds and 0 picks and set an NFL record for accuracy in. And then he scorched the Titans for 27/35 and 295 with 3 tds and 1 pick and they had an ENTIRE YEAR to scout him too. It was only when he fractured his thumb that his performance fell off and he still played leagues better with a @$%# broken hand that this guy who you all are fawning over with excuses and support.

I get your desperation to believe, but stop with the exaggerations. Lawrence has shown zero in his rookie season. Not a flash. No come from behind wins, no epic plays, not one game that says he is anything other than a career backup in skills, poise, leadership or grit. The negatives are ground and pounding whatever dreamy and fantastical positives you concoct. If he even ends up being a Jared Goff level starter longterm in this league I'd be shocked and inclined to name him "Comeback Player of the Year".

I believe you are looking for the Eagles forum sir

Lol indeed he is. That said, Minshew was fun to watch, and I would be more inclined to turn on the eagles If he was playing.

(12-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 05:56 PM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't good anyway you slice it:

https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1475490404103507968

Get those facts out of here.   We will insult you for your crazy audacity to blame the golden boy.

It's the coaches fault, it's the receivers fault, it's the coordinators fault, it's the guy who pumps up the footballs fault, it's the winds fault,  it's never Trevors.

I take it you didnt watch the game where we we ran it in from the one instead of pass to clear the stat. You didnt see the dropped TD. Im just guessing here, but you also are comparing bortles coaching staff and teammates to this team. If its this bad, just say youre trolling and dont want to admit you lost. Ill still value your opinion but only if you stop digging this ignorance hole to uncharted depths.

To you and your pitchfork crowd.

1. Yes lawrence has struggled
2. Yes lawrence has no help around him almost historically bad.
3. Yes the coaching staff and GM failed miserably.
4. Yes Lawrence was touted as the next best QB since the position was created if u will


What is making my &&&& itch ban or not, is the fact that you all have ignored every single inexcusable mistake this franchise has made to cripple a young QBs success. No TE to feature, horrid playcalling and personnel decisions, drop passes skewing all passing stats from tds on down, drive killing and big play cancelling penalties. THESE ARENT EXCUSES. They are valid points almost self inflicted wounds killing hopes of fast progress and development. Then i have to read about other franchises and QBs like they have or had the exact same situation. Put down the stupid and back the hell away.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

(12-27-2021, 08:27 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 08:17 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence played very well yesterday but you're still flapping your gums. 
What gives? 

He was 26/39 for 252 yards. 
He threw 3 inaccurate passes in 39 attempts. 
He suffered 4 dropped balls by receivers including a TD pass. 

Adjusted numbers on those drops would have him at 300+ and 1TD and 0 INT

He also scampered for 37 yards

I didn't see anything alarming in his play yesterday whatsoever.

So, maybe, just shut the [BLEEP] up for this week?

You guys always love to throw around the term context so let me give you some.

The Jets maybe the worst defense in the league when healthy.  They had guys fresh off the street playing in that game. More than half of their starting defense was hurt or on the covid list.

Lawrence still threw 0 TD's in the game while leading the team to only 21 points.    It's like if I gave you a medal for beating a wheel chaired kid at basketball.

CONTEXT!   BTW, he didn't play that well.  He left a lot of yards and td's on the field with his inaccurate throws.  He did make a handful of good throws, I will not deny that.  The stink of the bad is much worse than the good.

This is 100% bull [BLEEP]

I just rewatched the entire game 

He did not leave TDs on the field and a very small number of incompletions (3) were on him. 

If you think you know what the [BLEEP] you're talking about, show me the plays he failed on. 
I'll wait.

(12-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 05:56 PM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't good anyway you slice it:

https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1475490404103507968

Get those facts out of here.   We will insult you for your crazy audacity to blame the golden boy.

It's the coaches fault, it's the receivers fault, it's the coordinators fault, it's the guy who pumps up the footballs fault, it's the winds fault,  it's never Trevors.

(12-27-2021, 08:46 PM)IndyJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]The excuses you guys are making for Lawrence just keep growing and growing and becoming more ridiculous and desperate. I get it. He was touted as some "Generational Talent" who could come right in and elevate everyone around him by, well, everyone in the sports media and most of you guys who think you are "smart football guys" are really just ESPN whores who parrot whatever the baseline of consensus opinion is. So there's that.

Lots of outright lies here in this last page of thread. Lawrence was terrible from the jump even with better receivers and OL than Minshew ever had. Coaching being worse than last year is just an attempt to cover for Lawrence's inept play. Somebody has to take the fall for a QB who can't even make the easy throws underneath when down 21 and the Defense is conceding the first 10 yards from scrimmage and who shows no ability to read the field or make the tight window throws that the last guy made in his sleep. Can't be Lawrence's fault. Nope. Gotta be scheme, coaching or receivers. Again, the excuses and lies keep coming to deny the reality of what is shown plainly on the field.

And stop with the phony narrative about Minshew. Defenses never "figured him out". He scorched the Colts on the final game of 2019 and they had AN ENTIRE OFFSEASON to scout him and he still went 19/20 for 3 tds and 0 picks and set an NFL record for accuracy in. And then he scorched the Titans for 27/35 and 295 with 3 tds and 1 pick and they had an ENTIRE YEAR to scout him too. It was only when he fractured his thumb that his performance fell off and he still played leagues better with a @$%# broken hand that this guy who you all are fawning over with excuses and support.

I get your desperation to believe, but stop with the exaggerations. Lawrence has shown zero in his rookie season. Not a flash. No come from behind wins, no epic plays, not one game that says he is anything other than a career backup in skills, poise, leadership or grit. The negatives are ground and pounding whatever dreamy and fantastical positives you concoct. If he even ends up being a Jared Goff level starter longterm in this league I'd be shocked and inclined to name him "Comeback Player of the Year".

I do think that some (maybe a lot of) people are making a lot of excuses for Trevor. It's everyone's fault but his. Yet last year there were Jags fans put the blame mainly on Gardner, and hardly anyone else. Even though the defense was pretty bad, the team was young, veteran players were traded away, the coach staff wasn't good, Marrone didn't like him, etc... It's funny how the tables have turned and now it's all the other players fault and Trevor really isn't being held accountable by some/maybe a lot of people. Including those in the local media/national media.

Gardner was called an actual bum by some people when he was on pace to throw for like at least 30TDs ( before the injury/benching). 16TDs in like half a season wasn't good enough, but some people don't seem to have much of an issue for Trevor not throwing a TD in seven games. That's almost half a season. He hasn't thrown a TD in like half a season. That's pretty bad, IMO, no matter what the other players are doing. I can understand the Jags not completely turning things around right away and even losing several games. But you want to see some growth. Davis Mills of the Texans is on a bad, rebuilding team and he's shown some growth. It looks like there has been a lot of regression on Trevor's part.

Hopefully it will get better, but I think it's important to be honest about what's been happening. Some people (and at some of us that are Minshew fans) would be less harsh in our evaluations, but we remember the way that Gardner was dragged for performing way better than Trevor, at least on an individual basis. And he was dealing with a bad situation last year and playing with some of the same players Trevor is playing with including rookies.

Trevor is fortunate that nobody seems to care much about the rookies performances this year. Mac Jones had a nice start, but people were doubtful on him earlier on and think he's benefited from being in the Patriots system, Trey Lance hasn't really played, Justin Fields has been up and down, and has dealt with injury and the media doesn't seem to care much about Davis Mills right now. (Who interestingly enough has probably been like the second best rookie QB in the past few weeks.) So Trevor gets to skate, because of that and because people hyped him up so much, they are really hesitant to criticize him. If someone like Justin or Trey were balling out right now, there would probably be more of a negative spotlight on Trevor. But he gets to skate for pretty much the entire season.

As I already said these excuses for Lawrence will start to grow tired.

2 scenarios for next year

A. Lawrence has a dramatic offseason and starts looking like the franchise QB we all hoped he would be.

Or

B. Lawrence continues to struggle and some of the most blind fans start to worry.

I really hope for A but expexd B

I have compared Trevors rookie season with Gabbert/Bortles as well the big difference between Lawrence and the other 2 bums is that he actually does have some talent to work with. But it's still concerning to me that he's been worse than those two thusfar. no matter how you slice and dice it, 1 td in 7 or 8 games is a joke. I used to roast Gabbert weekly on the fact that he barely throws 1 td per game. Now we got half a season with 1? jesus.

(12-27-2021, 06:40 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 06:22 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ][*]There are 0 starting QB league wide (who have not missed games) who have as few red zone pass attempts as Lawrence. ZERO

[*]
The red zone chances stat is extremely enlightening 

[*]
^ To put this one in context:

My guess would be that the Jags have had the lowest amount of red zone plays in the league (or near the bottom anyway). Stands to reason that TL would have the least amount of red zone pass attempts amongst all starting qbs who have not missed games. 

Maybe the Jags offense should've gotten to the red zone a lot more often?  (That absolutely falls on TL, the entire offensive unit, and coaching for failing in that regard). 

I could be wrong though; too lazy to look it up.

(12-27-2021, 04:12 PM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 04:00 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]We watch him almost exclusively, so we focus on his mistakes in a way we don't focus on others. If he's really unusually bad then I'm sure one of the big metrics sites just have something measuring it.

People like PFF when it confirms their biases. I'm looking forward to seeing what Lawrence got this week because he was better than the last weeks.

Other metrics work the same way. 

Using QBR then Lawrence is 28th and has only Mills, Wilson and Fields behind him. I'd say this means he's garbage compared to quarterbacks in general but not compared to the other rookies.

This is a prime example of why nobody gives two [BLEEP] about QBR..
https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/14...7539460099

I think a lot of the problems with Lawrence not throwing td passes is the play calling in general and in the redzone. Moreover, there were so many 3 and outs this season. I feel sorry for the jags defense. This deffense played its heart out all year imo

(12-28-2021, 12:33 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I think a lot of the problems with Lawrence not throwing td passes is the play calling in general and in the redzone. Moreover, there were so many 3 and outs this season. I feel sorry for the jags defense. This deffense played its heart out all year imo

Defense didn't do jack [BLEEP] to help the Offense out much either. They've only gotten 7 takeaways all season long. Offense didn't do the Defense any favors with the 3 and outs, but the Defense didn't do them many favors either in getting the ball back.

Our turnover differential is the lowest in the league at -19. The Packers have the highest at +16.

Our 7 takeaways is the lowest in the league. 2nd lowest is the Ravens at 11. The highest is the Cowboys at 33. There's only 6 teams in the league with less than 15 takeaways this season. Seahawks 14, Raiders 13, Jets 13, Bears 12, Ravens 11 and us with 7. Pretty bad.

TL has a lot of things stacked against him this year, but his accuracy is concerning regardless.

I am not ready to call him a bust. It is 2 to 3 years before you can make that determination, but I have a hard time believing anyone feels comfortable about the way he has played this year.

(12-28-2021, 05:26 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]but I have a hard time believing anyone feels comfortable about the way he has played this year.

Reading this board,  it seems to suggest otherwise.

It's going to be interesting how he performs next year with better talent. I'm assuming Baalke (puke) will build the roster towards the offense and will help Lawrence out by drafting a top WR like the Bungholes did with Burrow and they got Chase.

(12-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 05:56 PM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't good anyway you slice it:

https://twitter.com/NFLonCBS/status/1475490404103507968

Get those facts out of here.   We will insult you for your crazy audacity to blame the golden boy.

It's the coaches fault, it's the receivers fault, it's the coordinators fault, it's the guy who pumps up the footballs fault, it's the winds fault,  it's never Trevors.

There will be doubts until he proves he's the franchise QB we are all hoping for. People that are confident he will be are still that way mostly going on potential and some flashes from time to time. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire, I think everyone can admit that.  What concerns me is that the conversations we're having are reminiscent of the conversations we had about Bortles his first couple of years. People will say they're nothing alike but there are a few things that are eerily similar.

• Doesn't plant his feet.
  
• Needs coached up on his mechanics.
  
• Needs to improve his accuracy.
  
• Needs to decrease the turnovers.
  
• Is missing open receivers (as rookies do).
  
• Holds on to the ball to long.
  
• Great athlete able to make some sensational plays.
  

To be sure, there are some differences. For one, Lawrence throws a much prettier ball. He is also a more natural thrower. We'll have to see how he develops.

(12-28-2021, 08:48 AM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-27-2021, 08:15 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Get those facts out of here.   We will insult you for your crazy audacity to blame the golden boy.

It's the coaches fault, it's the receivers fault, it's the coordinators fault, it's the guy who pumps up the footballs fault, it's the winds fault,  it's never Trevors.

There will be doubts until he proves he's the franchise QB we are all hoping for. People that are confident he will be are still that way mostly going on potential and some flashes from time to time. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire, I think everyone can admit that.  What concerns me is that the conversations we're having are reminiscent of the conversations we had about Bortles his first couple of years. People will say they're nothing alike but there are a few things that are eerily similar.

• Doesn't plant his feet.
  
• Needs coached up on his mechanics.
  
• Needs to improve his accuracy.
  
• Needs to decrease the turnovers.
  
• Is missing open receivers (as rookies do).
  
• Holds on to the ball to long.
  
• Great athlete able to make some sensational plays.
  

To be sure, there are some differences. For one, Lawrence throws a much prettier ball. He is also a more natural thrower. We'll have to see how he develops.

You forgot "bounces footballs off the receivers hands and chests instead of their feet and helmets."

I think the best rookie QB in this draft might turn out to be David Mills. He has less talent than Lawrence around him and the Texans are 3-3 in their last 6 games.

(12-28-2021, 03:39 PM)CTEisREAL Wrote: [ -> ]I think the best rookie QB in this draft might turn out to be David Mills.  He has less talent than Lawrence around him and the Texans are 3-3 in their last 6 games.

Ive got to watch him a little and some of the throws were pretty nice to see for a guy like him.

Time will tell.

(12-28-2021, 03:39 PM)CTEisREAL Wrote: [ -> ]I think the best rookie QB in this draft might turn out to be David Mills.  He has less talent than Lawrence around him and the Texans are 3-3 in their last 6 games.

Is he related to Davis Mills?