Quote:I don't think many (maybe one or two) are saying nobody can or should be happy with a win. You can be, go nuts. But for those of us who care more about stringing together playoff seasons, we know the difference between 1 win and 3 wins is only detrimental to that long term goal. Feel good about a win where we put up 13 whole points if you want, but it just isn't as important to me at this point as improving our odds of finding talent so we can stop being consistent bottom feeders in the league.
But how detrimental is it? Everyone keeps talking about how we need the #1 pick and everyone who's happy with the win is "short sighted," "thick skulled," or "just don't get it."
I get your argument (whereas atburg apparently doesn't) about having a higher chance of finding a great player at #1 than at #4. But as shown with the list of all the successful QB's drafted not at #1, you can find great players to build around at any point in the draft. Is it easier to hit on your draft picks when you have a higher pick? Sure. Is it a guarantee of anything? Well, just ask Matt Millen or the Cleveland Browns.
And let's say Bridgewater is one of the best QB's in NFL history. He'll go down in the books with guys like Peyton Manning, who has won 1 superbowl in his career. He'll go down with guys like Dan Marino who never won a Superbowl. He'll go down with guys like Brett Favre who won 1 superbowl.
Being the best QB in history isn't enough. You need more than that. You can find players to build around all over the draft so long as you hit on the pick. I don't care where the Jags draft, and it doesn't really matter where they draft, so long as they hit on their pick. That's what's important. Trying to dress it up as the team doesn't have a chance to ever find a QB that can lead them to the playoffs if they don't draft #1 overall is just disingenuous.
Quote:I remember last year when some of the Smarter-than-the-average-fan bros were distraught over the possibility of missing out in the greatest next best thing QB sure fire 1st pick.
Whadaya know. Geno fell to the second round...and oh yeah he sucks.
If Vince Young was in this draft, people would be threatening to commit suicide if we won a game.
Quote:I remember last year when some of the Smarter-than-the-average-fan bros were distraught over the possibility of missing out in the greatest next best thing QB sure fire 1st pick.
Whadaya know. Geno fell to the second round...and oh yeah he sucks.
Bridgewater is pretty much universally seen as a much better prospect than Geno Smith.
Quote:As a Jags fan, I find you to be an embarrassment.
But, like the queen, you say one thing now, but you'll be singing a different tune if the team winds up with Bridgewater and he turns out to be Jamarcus Russell. At that point you and the diva will be killing the front office for blowing the top pick in the draft.
We know the dance of the malcontents all too well around here.
Uh no I wont, im noting like Mad dog, I dont change my tune, and I believe in what I say. and i'm a true a Jaguar fan as anybody on this board.
I root for the team to win every game and I pick the team to win every game, but i'm also a realest.
I'm sick of this team making dumb bone headed decisions, if we win and lose the pick im not gonna be mad and turn my focus on Barr and Clowney, then see what QB we can get in the 2nd or trade back in the 1st.
I'm not gonna go on some [BAD WORD REMOVED] streak bashing Caldwell and Bradley, right now best thing for this team in a lost season is to play better develop young players and get the first pick in ever single round, if it doesnt happen oh well that sucks and i'm still gonna be a fan.
Quote:Winston will be absolutely be considered the #1 pick in the draft by everybody. His chances of staying are little.
Why are we talking about guarantees anyway? Tanker's are allowed to guarantee TB coming out, TB saving our franchise, TB being the only option for us if we want to be good, TB being gone sticks us with Henne/ Gabbert for another year.... Yet predicting Winston coming out is crazy talk.
Of course Im not advocating this, im just saying, if tanking is the right thing to do, why don't the tankers want us to tank for Winston instead of TB?
Nobody has guaranteed that it's going to happen. But people want Dave Caldwell to have the chance to make the right decision. That's where we differ.
We don't want to tank next year, because we hope next year this team is good enough to actually win a few games, and keep others close. 3-4 wins a year is not satisfactory to us. Especially when most games we lose are blowouts. But this year, we're bad enough to get that 1st pick.
Quote:
What I'm complaining about is what this win could end up meaning. I for one hope Dave Caldwell has the opportunity to choose any player in the draft, or to trade down if he so chooses. It's something this franchise needs. When Gene Smith was our General Manager, too often we were just out of reach for the better players. Some bad choices were made, but I wonder how this team would be if those bad choices had been less of options when more obvious better players were available.
I'm not of the "Teddy or bust' mindset. I'm of the mindset "Give Dave Caldwell all available options." If he passes on Bridgewater, I'm not going to be upset (unless Teddy turns out to be fantastic, while we still lack a Quarterback). I expect him to, to quote our coach, DO HIS JOB. You seemed to have missed the part where I said we helped put the Texans in position to make the best possible decision.
I don't get how you can like winning so much, but be happy with 3-4 wins a year. I'm happy if this team is competitive -- which it has not been much this year. But 3-4 wins isn't going to make me any happier than 1 win when we're not competitive. And I certainly wouldn't be happy with this team being a perpetual 3-4 win team. For as much as you like winning, I don't see how you could be either.
Good points. Well stated.
Quote:.....Of course Im not advocating this, im just saying, if tanking is the right thing to do, why don't the tankers want us to tank for Winston instead of TB?
Because you need one of these JOE.
![[Image: Future-CrystalBall-1a.jpg]](http://www.bigbluebullfrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Future-CrystalBall-1a.jpg)
Teddy The Groundhog!
If we win, he comes out for the draft.
If we lose, he stays in school.
![[Image: Teddy_The_Groundhog_1.jpg]](http://s6.postimg.org/pq0faf6kx/Teddy_The_Groundhog_1.jpg)
Nobody wants to go to a team that is moving to Great Britain. Even Johnny Football is laying down ugly tape lately.
Who is going to blame them for "draft dodging"? Thank our newbie NFL owner, Khan the Anglophile, for destroying our free agency market-ability and draft credibility.
Quote:Tbh after watching TB recent games, While he doesn't turn the ball over He hasn't been super impressive either. But at the same time the talking heads said it's because team's he's been playing against lately are more defense oriented and they're taking away his deep options and making him throw short.
So, when he's facing bigger, faster defenses in the NFL, how do you think he'll fare in that environment if he's struggling against college defenses now? I'm not sold on him being anything special at the next level.
A lot of time between now and the draft. Players will rise and fall. It's extremely possible Bridgewater won't be the top pick in the draft. Geno Hayes was the consensus first pick by many of the same experts on this board a year ago. He wasn't, and it turns out he was a lot of hype and not much more.
Quote:Great way to put it. I concur. If Bridgewater sucks for us, thats easier to take than having him blow up and be a stud on Houston just because we were dumb enough to win a few late season nothing games that didn't improve us any in the long run.
your logic is not even dumb, it just does not exist. You play to win the game. That's why it's called a game and they keep score. Keep whining though. Idiot
Quote:The people upset about a win seem to be operating under the assumption that certain college prospects are guaranteed locks to be studs in the NFL. They aren't. If there was a redraft of every draft in history, none of them would have the players drafted in any order that even remotely resembles the original order which is an indictment on just how difficult player evaluation is. I understand having the top pick come draft time would be better than having the 2nd or 3rd pick, but with the historical uncertainty of the draft I'm not taking away any joy out of a loss or pain from a win and I would encourage you to look at it in this light if you aren't already.
If you're focusing on the draft position of the Jaguars and basing your emotional response to wins and losses with that in mind, wouldn't rooting for divisional rivals to win their games so they have a worse draft position next year also fall into the same line of thinking. You'd find yourself in a position where you are rooting against the Jags, and for the tacks, clots and tinhorns. Doesn't sound like much of a Jag fan to me.
Bottom line... Worry about the draft after the season. Allow the coaching staff and front office to do their jobs, hopefully we've got the right people in place. And for goodness sake allow yourself to enjoy the Jaguars' win today, they've been few and far between the last few years.
I really like that this team isn't giving up with the start to the season that we had. That is a direct reflection on Gus and a very good thing to see.
That's okay to be happy with a Jaguars win. But people have different perceptions and its really disturbing how a lot of people here rabidly provoke them AND THEN attack them when they respond. This entire thread is to provoke a response from people who don't care about beating a terrible Texans team. To provoke a response from people who want to see the team better than two to four wins. I'm sorry if my perception is different in this regard. Why do people constantly need to validate themselves as "REAL FANS!!!". I'm a better fan than you!!!
Quote:Bridgewater is pretty much universally seen as a much better prospect than Geno Smith.
exactly, I remember suck for Luck and Tank for Teddy, nobody every said we should lose games to get Geno Smith, people mostly wanted Geno Smith because he was the best QB in the draft and Gabbert sucked.
Around this time last year Geno Smith was looked at as a mid first round pick maybe could go in the top 10
Quote:Geno Hayes was the consensus first pick by many of the same experts on this board a year ago. He wasn't, and it turns out he was a lot of hype and not much more.
I think you might be giving Gus and Caldwell's players a bit too much credit there... :thumbsup:
Quote:So, when he's facing bigger, faster defenses in the NFL, how do you think he'll fare in that environment if he's struggling against college defenses now? I'm not sold on him being anything special at the next level.
It doesn't matter if you're sold on him or not. It matters if Caldwell is. He's put more hours into watching Bridgewater's game, and is better at evaluating talent than all of us combined. I'd much rather he be the one to make that decision than either you or TMD. And especially more than me.
I just want a franchise QB. I don't care if it the 1st pick, 2nd round, 6th round or undrafted. Right now Teddy seems to be that guy. Lots can change from now until April though.
TMD and others are correct, this is a pointless win. However they way they go about posting about it is wrong.
Quote:Good points. Well stated.
So you think grown men can be convinced to coach/play their way into a loss.... because someone might come in make some of them better?
Ok so quick question.
If the draft is tomorrow who would have the first pick?
Quote:jaguars
So what exactly are some of you complaining about?