Quote: exactly, I remember suck for Luck and Tank for Teddy, nobody every said we should lose games to get Geno Smith, people mostly wanted Geno Smith because he was the best QB in the draft and Gabbert sucked.
Around this time last year Geno Smith was looked at as a mid first round pick maybe could go in the top 10
You're nuts. None of the NFL scouts believed he was a top draft pick. The shills being paid "consulting" fees got you confused?
Quote:I think you might be giving Gus and Caldwell's players a bit too much credit there... :thumbsup:
Whoops! Eh, got Geno right.
Quote:But how detrimental is it? Everyone keeps talking about how we need the #1 pick and everyone who's happy with the win is "short sighted," "thick skulled," or "just don't get it."
I get your argument (whereas atburg apparently doesn't) about having a higher chance of finding a great player at #1 than at #4. But as shown with the list of all the successful QB's drafted not at #1, you can find great players to build around at any point in the draft. Is it easier to hit on your draft picks when you have a higher pick? Sure. Is it a guarantee of anything? Well, just ask Matt Millen or the Cleveland Browns.
And let's say Bridgewater is one of the best QB's in NFL history. He'll go down in the books with guys like Peyton Manning, who has won 1 superbowl in his career. He'll go down with guys like Dan Marino who never won a Superbowl. He'll go down with guys like Brett Favre who won 1 superbowl.
Being the best QB in history isn't enough. You need more than that. You can find players to build around all over the draft so long as you hit on the pick. I don't care where the Jags draft, and it doesn't really matter where they draft, so long as they hit on their pick. That's what's important. Trying to dress it up as the team doesn't have a chance to ever find a QB that can lead them to the playoffs if they don't draft #1 overall is just disingenuous.
I never said that though. Yes you may find your guy elsewhere in the draft, but you said yourself the odds are lower as you go down. And if you're banking on finding that guy in round 3 or beyond (as one of our more special posters is), the odds are atrocious.
Every time a player comes off the board, they are not an option for you. So it seems that we agree there is a tangible loss by picking up a win at this stage of a losing season. If we improve a division rivals draft position in the process, doubly so.
So what is the positive of winning 3 games vs 1? What do we tangibly gain? We can certainly feel good about it, but I just don't see any actual gain for the team while the loss in draft position is real.
Needless to say, that isn't the same argument if we're having a competitive season with any playoff hopes. But we aren't.
Quote:You find football players where you find football players.
I'm not saying I disagree with the tanking crowd; I get the argument. I do. I wouldn't be upset if the team gets the first overall pick.
Its this idea that no one can be happy seeing their team win a game that gets me.
The draft isn't a guarantee. The first overall pick isn't a guarantee. There's guys to build around all over the draft.
I'm not going to be upset if we get the first pick, but I'm not going to be rooting against the Jags either.
Quote:Because you need one of these JOE.
![[Image: Future-CrystalBall-1a.jpg]](http://www.bigbluebullfrog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Future-CrystalBall-1a.jpg)
We have one of those for TB apparently.
*Jaguars lose first few games*
(You know who you are)
This team is terrible. They are showing no improvement from week to week.
Caldwell is awful! He didn't resign my favorite player who is now going to lead team x to the Super Bowl. Plus he didn't overpay FAs with name recognition.
Bradley is overmatched. Too nice to be a good coach. His approach will never work. He was hired prematurely. There were better candidates to be had. His assistant coaches are garbage.
*Jaguars win a couple games. Team shows improvement. Players buy in and sing coaches praise. New regime appears to be capable and has a team that was earlier dubbed 'the worst ever' playing with confidence. Momentum seems to be building*
(You know who you are {same people as earlier})
These wins are meaningless!
It's not good to show improvement!
I hate having some idea that the new coaching staff may help the Jags be contenders going forward!
We must let our division rivals beat us and in doing so continue to shame and embarrass our players, coaches, management, owner and fans!
It is far more important to get the one and only good player in next years draft than for our team and coaches to gain confidence heading into next season!
------------------------------------------
Way to go "fans"! Looking good...
Quote:So what exactly are some of you complaining about?
Well, the season doesn't end today.
We're making it unnecessarily super close for the #1 pick, when we are not that close in terms of talent in the NFL (at least I dont think we are).
This team, top to bottom, has by far the worst roster in the league. I would like for us to have the 1st pick in each round because that will ultimately help us get a better team overall.
But like I said, I can't complain if we win. If our young players are playing better and putting themselves in positions to make plays, good for them and good for us.
Quote:So what exactly are some of you complaining about?
I was never complaining, the OP is the one rubbing in a win like people should be mad that the jaguars won
I'm rooting for the other bad teams to win, and trying to explain the benefits of tanking, other then that I was never mad about the win
Quote:Sure there's a personal attack. Calling someone an 'insult to simple logic' is a personal attack. As is calling someone 'tainted'. It seems that so many people have to resort to insults.
What I'm complaining about is what this win could end up meaning. I for one hope Dave Caldwell has the opportunity to choose any player in the draft, or to trade down if he so chooses. It's something this franchise needs. When Gene Smith was our General Manager, too often we were just out of reach for the better players. Some bad choices were made, but I wonder how this team would be if those bad choices had been less of options when more obvious better players were available.
I'm not of the "Teddy or bust' mindset. I'm of the mindset "Give Dave Caldwell all available options." If he passes on Bridgewater, I'm not going to be upset (unless Teddy turns out to be fantastic, while we still lack a Quarterback). I expect him to, to quote our coach, DO HIS JOB. You seemed to have missed the part where I said we helped put the Texans in position to make the best possible decision.
I don't get how you can like winning so much, but be happy with 3-4 wins a year. I'm happy if this team is competitive -- which it has not been much this year. But 3-4 wins isn't going to make me any happier than 1 win when we're not competitive. And I certainly wouldn't be happy with this team being a perpetual 3-4 win team. For as much as you like winning, I don't see how you could be either.
I didn't call you personally an insult to simple logic. Let me type slower so that you can understand. Your position is an insult to simple logic, not necessarily you. I don't know you. I have never met you. I likely will never meet you. That said, I don't expect you to understand that confusing winning with losing may give off mixed signals. So, if that hurts your feelings, sorry, but when you play the "yes means no and no means yes game" with people, don't be surprised if you get the same confusion as you are getting from me. You can rationalize your thought process as much as you wish, but you have blurred the lines. That is indisputable.
Now, if you're not of the 1 or bust mindset, then what is the problem? Last I checked, Ricky Williams was had by the team that wanted him. If a team TRULY wants a player, they can get that player, so don't say that today crushed those hopes. How did that trade work out for New Orleans? Now ask yourself this: if New Orleans had the first overall pick, would they have taken Williams? Would it have changed what happened?
Again, you're putting your predisposed notion of what one player is, all things considered. You have said as much by saying we handed the Texans their QB of the next decade. You have taken the position that you already have this already worked out, and have identified it through your posts. This, months ahead of the draft.
Now, on to me. I said I was happy with 3-4 wins but would be happier with 19. That is a solid, unwavering position. I don't need to tell others that winning is losing, and losing is winning. I am happy with any win, and upset with any loss.
You and those like you who want to jockey for some perceived prize CAN NOT say that. You have relinquished your right to do so. It's really that simple. You cannot be trusted any longer with the meaning of winning and losing because you and those like you have destroyed the meaning to those who read your words.
Quote:your logic is not even dumb, it just does not exist. You play to win the game. That's why it's called a game and they keep score. Keep whining though. Idiot
defend meaningless wins at the end of dead seasons all you wish. Enjoy the perennial 5-11 type records it brings as well.
No franchise QB, then no digging out of this consistent losing.
But keep on fighting the good fight, sport.
If we had won these games before the bye (2-6), do we still tank?
Quote:You're nuts. None of the NFL scouts believed he was a top draft pick. The shills being paid "consulting" fees got you confused?
During the year he was projected as a possible top 10 QB in a weak QB draft, which is why he thought he would go in the first round, your thinking about after the SR. bowl and combine.
Quote:So you think grown men can be convinced to coach/play their way into a loss.... because someone might come in make some of them better?
No, but I think a desired outcome can be got. Starting Gabbert for instance could have helped.
Quote:Bridgewater is pretty much universally seen as a much better prospect than Geno Smith.
Riiiight. Up there with Elway and Manning.
Still waiting on you to tell me how Teddy is a once in a decade prospect even though Luck, RG3, Newton, and Stafford were all drafted in the last five years, and were all better prospects out if college.
Lemme know when you get done spinnin' yourself an answer.
Quote:I didn't call you personally an insult to simple logic. Let me type slower so that you can understand.
Well, at least you aren't trying to insult him. Glad you cleared that up.
Quote:I'm not going to be upset if we get the first pick, but I'm not going to be rooting against the Jags either.
Tankers have convinced themselves that they are fans.
Win or lose they're my team.
I was excited today they scored first!
I was excited today when they sacked keenum!
I was excited today to see mJD drag tacklers along like he used to.
I was excited today when we had the lead the whole game.
I was excited today when the interception sealed the win.
Would I like a better quarterback? Sure.
Would I like fewer mistakes from the O line? Sure.
Would I have rather lost?
![[Image: nope-650x352.jpg]](http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/nope-650x352.jpg)
Quote:*Jaguars lose first few games*
(You know who you are)
This team is terrible. They are showing no improvement from week to week.
they still aren't.
The 2 wins they got were far from quality wins. One team simply sucked less than the other one in both instances.
![[Image: My_point_exactly._Good_to_see_that_peopl...a8d63f.png]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131103020850/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/d/de/My_point_exactly._Good_to_see_that_people_see_it_d132975652374dd27d77f0b722a8d63f.png)