Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:The NFL has not created a problem, because there is no such problem.

Joe Flacco (who has been mediocre throughout most of his NFL career) signed a $100 million contract this past off season, Matthew Stafford (who has 0 playoff wins) signeda $80 million contract this past offseason, if you don't think the NFL has created a problem by placing an emphasis on having a franchise or perceived franchise QB (because of the rule changes in the past 10 years) then you're blind, naïve, or maybe even a little bit of both. It is imperative to have a franchise QB in today’s NFL, and it’s so important that GM’s & Owners are willing to spend a 5th of their cap space on a guy that resembles anything close to a franchise QB.

Quote:How is it cheating? The NFL has created this problem with the importance of the QB being at an all time high due to their "rules" that benefit the passing game constantly being implemented, so now when teams manipulate to get the desired outcome and their QB, you label it cheating. Hate to say it, but no rules were broken. 

Nobody is labeling it cheating. It is cheating. You are advocating putting the fix in on a professional sports game. 

Quote:And Clowney's character is in question.  His chances of success in the NFL aren't as high as people believed they would be last year.

 

 

Has he ever been in trouble? I believe there is a lot of media hype being poured into this supposed character issue. I could be totally off on that but I would venture to guess he is simply in self preservation mode knowing that his skills are valued by many in the upcoming draft.

Quote:I'm just curious, and just asking a question because a respect your opinion.


Do you see Bridgewater as the only 'viable' franchise QB?


If not, who else would you consider?


What would you think about trading out of the top spot (assuming we get it) for more picks and also assuming we could stay in position for another franchise type QB?


I guess that's three questions.


My only problem with this whole 'tanking' thing is that it is all predicated on Bridgewater being heads above all other quarterbacks in this draft.

 

Only viable?  Not necessarily.  I guess it depends upon your definition of "viability."

 

I think he is the most pro ready now of all of the potential prospects, and based upon all I have seen in games and stories and read about him, I think he has the cerebral makeup to succeed at the NFL level.

 

Mariota has bigger physical upside, but I think he may need more refinement.  If a team is willing to be more patient and can provide him with the help he needs, he may pay off big down the road, but I'm not sure if this is the ideal environment for him (though you could argue he would better fit this environment than Bridgewater).

 

TBH, I haven't seen much of Carr or Fales.  I hate Manziel...have cooled signifcantly on Hundley, am back and forth on McCarron (like his moxie and clutch performance and overall winning record, but is he a product of the talent around him) and Murray.

 

If we had the top spot, I would only reluctantly consider trading out of the top spot for several reasons. 

 

First, many times when you trade down, what you get in return isn't worth what you would have netted had you stayed in place.  Seatlle famously traded down out of the #2 overall pick with Dallas in 1977.  Dallas wound up with Tony Dorsett.  After Elway refused to play for Irsay in Baltimore, they traded Elway to Denver for some players and picks.  T Chris Hinton was among those who wound up with the Colts.  However, none of those picks paid of as handsomely as Elway did for Denver.  More recently, the Rams had the #2 overall pick and traded it away to the Skins, who wound up with RGIII.  While RG III has had his problems returning from a serious knee injury, the fact is he DID turn around the Skins fortunes last year.  Meanwhile, the Rams still languish without a QB.

 

Continuing on that theme, I don't think in terms of draft choice compensation, we'd get what we might otherwise get in a different year.  According to many of the pundits, there are as many as 8-9 first round QB prospects (Bridgewater, Mariota, Manziel, Carr, Fales, Hundley, McCarron, and Murray-pre injury).  If this is a true reflection of scouts' feelings on this draft class, then QB needy teams may well be less inclined to deal up, and if they do trade up, they likely won't pay as much because of less demand and higher supply.

 

Based upon the above, I would be less inclined to trade down, even though we need help in many areas.

Quote:Has he ever been in trouble? I believe there is a lot of media hype being poured into this supposed character issue. I could be totally off on that but I would venture to guess he is simply in self preservation mode knowing that his skills are valued by many in the upcoming draft.

Getting into trouble isn't the only character concerns.  Work Ethic is very important in the NFL, and Clowney might be in 'self preservation' mode, but to quote Bucky Brooks here:

 

Quote: 

 

“He has appeared distracted by the limelight and attention that accompanies his reputation as a potential top pick; it appears to have affected his preparation for the season. Clowney has struggled with his conditioning throughout the season and has battled a handful of bumps and bruises that have impacted his play. Additionally, he has repeatedly taken plays off and appeared disinterested in the middle of games, which is a red flag for scouts looking for a potential difference-maker at the top of the draft.”

Quote:Joe Flacco (who has been mediocre throughout most of his NFL career) signed a $100 million contract this past off season, Matthew Stafford (who has 0 playoff wins) signeda $80 million contract this past offseason, if you don't think the NFL has created a problem by placing an emphasis on having a franchise or perceived franchise QB (because of the rule changes in the past 10 years) then you're blind, naïve, or maybe even a little bit of both. It is imperative to have a franchise QB in today’s NFL, and it’s so important that GM’s & Owners are willing to spend a 5th of their cap space on a guy that resembles anything close to a franchise QB.

 

Did you even read the post I responded to?

Quote:Getting into trouble isn't the only character concerns.  Work Ethic is very important in the NFL, and Clowney might be in 'self preservation' mode, but to quote Bucky Brooks here:

 

I would agree with what you say, especially concerning work ethic but I am also sure that I could probably google a opposing view to ole Bucky rather quickly. IMO his skill level is enough to make him a clear #1.

 

Yep, pretty quick, I take this with the same amount of salt as Bucky's article, it's a lot of hype and grabs for ratings.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/18114...xaggerated

Quote:I would agree with what you say, especially concerning work ethic but I am also sure that I could probably google a opposing view to ole Bucky rather quickly. IMO his skill level is enough to make him a clear #1.

 

Yep, pretty quick, I take this with the same amount of salt as Bucky's article, it's a lot of hype and grabs for ratings.http://bleacherreport.com/articles/18114...xaggerated

I remember critcisms of Julius Peppers coming out that he took plays off in college. 

 

I remember criticisms of Hakeem Nicks saying he was out of shape at his workouts, etc.

 

They turned out to be pretty good players.

Quote:I remember critcisms of Julius Peppers coming out that he took plays off in college. 

 

I remember criticisms of Hakeem Nicks saying he was out of shape at his workouts, etc.

 

They turned out to be pretty good players.

 

Randy Moss took plays off was always a big thing. I tend to believe the Clowney thing has been driven by ESPN, who spent all offseason building him up only to tear him down.

Quote:I don't get this.

 

Suppose we somehow do just this and get out of range for any viable QB.

 

Whatever benefit we get this year out of sweeping two division opponents would not outweigh the problems associated with lacking a franchise QB, nor would it outweigh the benefit to Houston if they got their franchise QB to add to their already talented roster.

 

I'm still waiting to hear of the benefit we derived from beating the Colts the last week of 2011.

 

I don't even remember much about the game, TBH.  I doubt the Colts fans or players remember.

 

I know it didn't "teach us how to win."  It didn't provide any momentum that carried over into 2012.

 

It certainly didn't put us into playoff contention.

 

What benefit did we get from it?

There is no way of knowing if this pick you are tanking for will ever amount to anything. What winning out in the division tells you is that you actually have the ability

to compete for the division and competing for the division is the first step to being a perennial playoff team. That is actual tangible proof that something positive is happening in the organization.

 

You people need to get over this black and white thought that it is the number one pick or bust. We can fall a few spots and still pick the best player in the draft. Rarely does the number 1 overall pick turn out to be the best player in the draft. We could drop back 10 places and still be one of the teams that regrets having passed on that guy

 

Besides, you don't pretend to be worse than you are in order to take someone else's deserved draft pick. That's flat out cheating and if you have to cheat to win you don't deserve to play.

 

Any team employing that loser strategy should have to forfeit all their draft picks the following year.

 

The lack of personal integrity by some people on this board is pathetic.

Quote:I remember critcisms of Julius Peppers coming out that he took plays off in college. 

 

I remember criticisms of Hakeem Nicks saying he was out of shape at his workouts, etc.

 

They turned out to be pretty good players.

 

And there are plenty that didn't work out too.  I'm not saying he's not going to.  But he's not so much more of a sure thing that people seem to think.  

Quote:How is it cheating? The NFL has created this problem with the importance of the QB being at an all time high due to their "rules" that benefit the passing game constantly being implemented, so now when teams manipulate to get the desired outcome and their QB, you label it cheating. Hate to say it, but no rules were broken. 

 

RED HERRING!

Quote:How is it cheating? The NFL has created this problem with the importance of the QB being at an all time high due to their "rules" that benefit the passing game constantly being implemented, so now when teams manipulate to get the desired outcome and their QB, you label it cheating. Hate to say it, but no rules were broken. 

If sony didn't make TVs so nice I wouldn't have to manipulate your door lock to get my flat screen out of your living room.

 

No rules broken.

Quote:I remember critcisms of Julius Peppers coming out that he took plays off in college. 

 

I remember criticisms of Hakeem Nicks saying he was out of shape at his workouts, etc.

 

They turned out to be pretty good players.

The best pass rusher this team has ever had, Tony Brackens,  had the same criticism as Peppers.

Quote:Besides, you don't pretend to be worse than you are in order to take someone else's deserved draft pick. That's flat out cheating and if you have to cheat to win you don't deserve to play.

 

Any team employing that loser strategy should have to forfeit all their draft picks the following year.

 

The lack of personal integrity by some people on this board is pathetic.

Right, and you don't rest your starters to save yourself for the playoffs, while also throwing a win at an undeserving team and affecting the playoff slotting. Oh wait, this happens every single year.


And you don't start playing less talented but younger guys to get them experience after it's clear the season is lost. No, no getting a head start on the future, you play for right now! Oh wait, this also happens every single year.


You can play in the league as you wish it was, but I'm for playing in the one that is.

Quote:There is no way of knowing if this pick you are tanking for will ever amount to anything. What winning out in the division tells you is that you actually have the ability

to compete for the division and competing for the division is the first step to being a perennial playoff team. That is actual tangible proof that something positive is happening in the organization.

 

You people need to get over this black and white thought that it is the number one pick or bust. We can fall a few spots and still pick the best player in the draft. Rarely does the number 1 overall pick turn out to be the best player in the draft. We could drop back 10 places and still be one of the teams that regrets having passed on that guy

 

Besides, you don't pretend to be worse than you are in order to take someone else's deserved draft pick. That's flat out cheating and if you have to cheat to win you don't deserve to play.

 

Any team employing that loser strategy should have to forfeit all their draft picks the following year.

 

The lack of personal integrity by some people on this board is pathetic.

 

Your baseless moral condescension aside, your post raises questions.

 

1.  You sure that winning in the division is the first step to playoff contention?  What about...I dunno...accumulating the talent that actually enables you to win in the division?

 

2.  You have no idea about who I am or anything about my personal integrity.  While you flail wildly in message board speculation, I notice you remained silent on a post I made earlier about fans who have moral problems with things like drug use who are fans of teams who have had drug users on their Super Bowl winning rosters.  Should those fans end their allegiances to their various teams because they derived on field benefit from having a known rule breaker/law breaker on the team?  Should those teams somehow renounce their championships?   Should the NFL, which has a long standing drug policy in place, vacate those titles won by those teams?  What about teams with players who sleep around with multiple women?  What about teams with guys who don't support any non custodial children?  Do those things offend your moral sensibilities to the point you would cease to support your team?

Quote:Right, and you don't rest your starters to save yourself for the playoffs, while also throwing a win at an undeserving team and affecting the playoff slotting. Oh wait, this happens every single year.


And you don't start playing less talented but younger guys to get them experience after it's clear the season is lost. No, no getting a head start on the future, you play for right now! Oh wait, this also happens every single year.


You can play in the league as you wish it was, but I'm for playing in the one that is.

 

There it is. 

Quote:And there are plenty that didn't work out too.  I'm not saying he's not going to.  But he's not so much more of a sure thing that people seem to think.  

 

Well...at least we agree it isn't an ability issue with Clowney, right? 

Quote:The best pass rusher this team has ever had, Tony Brackens,  had the same criticism as Peppers.

 

Exactly! 

 

Sometimes the criticisms are unwarranted.

 

Sometimes, the criticisms are irrelevant.

 

Sometimes, the talent has to trump.

Quote:Right, and you don't rest your starters to save yourself for the playoffs, while also throwing a win at an undeserving team and affecting the playoff slotting. Oh wait, this happens every single year.

And you don't start playing less talented but younger guys to get them experience after it's clear the season is lost. No, no getting a head start on the future, you play for right now! Oh wait, this also happens every single year.


You can play in the league as you wish it was, but I'm for playing in the one that is.

 

But what if you do the highlighted and you win a few games?