(10-17-2022, 08:36 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]My immediate thought is that Trevor was pressured via the left side - moving him right to evade often
Plus we ran the ball 33 times for 243 yards and lost the T.oP. in the first half by 6+ minutes. -- due to two those things, the number of throws is going to be scant. Small sample won't be as revealing with its data as a larger one would.
How could he? He had pressure in under 3 seconds all day.
Shatley too
There was no time to let the deep ball develop. The line was getting killed past a few seconds.
Also the announcer mentioned they were playing a lot of Cover 3; does that take away the middle of the field a lot?
If your 4 underneath defenders in the back seven are quick - and your FS descends rapidly - it can make the middle tough.
It's primarily meant to limit deep passes at it's most basic function though. Of course NFL coordinators put their own spins on it.
(10-17-2022, 08:36 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]My immediate thought is that Trevor was pressured via the left side - moving him right to evade often
Plus we ran the ball 33 times for 243 yards and lost the T.oP. in the first half by 6+ minutes. -- due to two those things, the number of throws is going to be scant. Small sample won't be as revealing with its data as a larger one would.
How could he? He had pressure in under 3 seconds all day.
Shatley too
There was no time to let the deep ball develop. The line was getting killed past a few seconds.
Also the announcer mentioned they were playing a lot of Cover 3; does that take away the middle of the field a lot?
It can depending on the offensive play calling. Normally the holes are at the intermediate level with C3. You can force other holes with certain flood concepts. Mesh, Pederson's historical bread and butter, normally only works if they are bad at communication.
So Trevor leads a masterful (should be) game winning drive that was a thing of beauty. Has a better weekly QBR than Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Lamar, Rodgers, Wilson (bc people think he's amazing apparently) and a higher weekly QB Rating than Ryan, Hurts, Mahomes, Lamar, Brady, Rodgers. He ranks as the 6th best QB this week in terms of QBR and Rating.
But he sucks because we only took one deep shot and it was incomplete.
My god, what do you guys want? He's not going to throw for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs every week
If I had to guess about the pass distribution and amount of runs called it seemed like the game plan was to try to draw the colts down towards the line of scrimmage to open up more down field passing. I don't know that the colts did come out of their deep shell but the gameplan worked whenever the line wasn't just letting rushers through as soon as the ball was snapped. The team scored a TD in every quarter. The loss wasn't about the offense, aside from some lapses by the offensive line, it was about the defense's inability to defense the short passing game.
(10-17-2022, 08:45 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:36 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]There was no time to let the deep ball develop. The line was getting killed past a few seconds.
Also the announcer mentioned they were playing a lot of Cover 3; does that take away the middle of the field a lot?
It can depending on the offensive play calling. Normally the holes are at the intermediate level with C3. You can force other holes with certain flood concepts. Mesh, Pederson's historical bread and butter, normally only works if they are bad at communication.
Good insight there ^
Pederson does run this a lot, and if the defenders don't fall prey to pre snap movement and fight through the rubs they know to anticipate (especially out of bunch formations) then it is less effective.
Also - as evidenced yesterday, teams will get better at defending it the more they have tape of it.
Notice the number of screens and swing passes getting destroyed in the back field for losses yesterday.
Also - how many holding penalties were called (and not called) when Jags WR and TE were held up on shallow crossing routes/underneath stuff yesterday? That was evidence the colts D was coached up on defending the mesh concepts.
(10-17-2022, 08:57 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]So Trevor leads a masterful (should be) game winning drive that was a thing of beauty. Has a better weekly QBR than Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Lamar, Rodgers, Wilson (bc people think he's amazing apparently) and a higher weekly QB Rating than Ryan, Hurts, Mahomes, Lamar, Brady, Rodgers. He ranks as the 6th best QB this week in terms of QBR and Rating.
But he sucks because we only took one deep shot and it was incomplete.
My god, what do you guys want? He's not going to throw for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs every week
This. I am getting tired of the [BLEEP] on here with the trolling. Look, when he [BLEEP] up? I call it out. When he plays good to great enough to win you the game? The fault clearly lays elsewhere.
I don't need to see any fancy charts or pass trajectories to see that he had a good game yesterday. The kid responded well after two bad weeks in a row and the defense could simply do NOTHING to get Ryan rattled, flustered, on the ground or off the field.
It's as simple as that. Mahomes threw a pick inside his redzone yesterday, cost his team points, Allen had to go down and march to take the victory. Again, QB's, no matter how low or high on the totem pole are going to have bad days and good days. The key is having more good days than bad days.
So far this year? He's essentially 50/50. Three good performances. Three bad performances. We'll see how does against the Giants at home this Sunday. However, given his performance yesterday? My primary concern is whether or not this defense can dig it's head out of it's [BLEEP] fast enough this week because Jones and Barkley potentially present a match up nightmare that we saw in Philadelphia back in week four.
(10-17-2022, 08:57 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]So Trevor leads a masterful (should be) game winning drive that was a thing of beauty. Has a better weekly QBR than Allen, Mahomes, Brady, Lamar, Rodgers, Wilson (bc people think he's amazing apparently) and a higher weekly QB Rating than Ryan, Hurts, Mahomes, Lamar, Brady, Rodgers. He ranks as the 6th best QB this week in terms of QBR and Rating.
But he sucks because we only took one deep shot and it was incomplete.
My god, what do you guys want? He's not going to throw for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs every week
The run game and the deep ball threat are highly correlated. The defense typically can focus on stopping one or the other. Without a deep ball threat, the defense can stack the box and make it tough sledding for the running backs.
We had some success initially on the ground. That should have opened up the passing game. That's probably why Pedersen tried to pass after the initial success on the ground. Of course, many felt he should have kept pounding on the ground. Especially since the passing game was so pathetic that it mainly consisted of quick outs for very few yards.
(10-17-2022, 09:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:45 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]It can depending on the offensive play calling. Normally the holes are at the intermediate level with C3. You can force other holes with certain flood concepts. Mesh, Pederson's historical bread and butter, normally only works if they are bad at communication.
Good insight there ^
Pederson does run this a lot, and if the defenders don't fall prey to pre snap movement and fight through the rubs they know to anticipate (especially out of bunch formations) then it is less effective.
Also - as evidenced yesterday, teams will get better at defending it the more they have tape of it.
Notice the number of screens and swing passes getting destroyed in the back field for losses yesterday.
Also - how many holding penalties were called (and not called) when Jags WR and TE were held up on shallow crossing routes/underneath stuff yesterday? That was evidence the colts D was coached up on defending the mesh concepts.
Less WR screens on the outside and more RB and TE screens over the middle would have probably been better. They didn't really get him outside of the pocket much yesterday neither outside of the designed running plays in the redzone. I am glad they finally started doing that. I said that the other day. He had two rushing TD's but he probably left two or three more off his stat sheet in earlier games this year.
Those designs were the same exact designs they ran him in at Clemson and he would knife through the line and find a lane or two. He's not the fastest runner but he's an effective runner. Especially inside the 20. They need to probably try selling that this Sunday against the Giants though and do some trickery with the TE's. Engram or Arnold should be able to sneak off the LOS in those formations for an easy pitch and catch.
I like what I am seeing though out of Pederson with Lawrence. Each week he's trying to wrinkle in something new or different and it works to an extent. They just need to execute in more situations and the defense absolutely has to dig it's head out of it's [BLEEP] fast this week.
Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
(10-17-2022, 09:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
Exactly and the haters still want to blame this game on Trevor.... I mean what do they want him to do... score 50 points a game so the other team doesn't have a chance to catch up.... When you take the lead at the end of the game with 2 minutes left You should expect your defense to stop the opponent from scoring... It's happened multiple times now.... Texans game wasn't high scoring but we had the lead.... The haters say well Trevor should have scored more than six points but I do believe last year we kept Buffalo to six points and we had an awful defense... sometimes even the best quarterbacks don't score a lot of points... Washington we had a 14-point lead I believe in the fourth quarter also
(10-17-2022, 09:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
But he didn't complete the one pass 30 yards downfield!!! Bust.
(10-17-2022, 09:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
I'm not a hater. My main frustrations though is comparing T-Law's game in the 1 pm slot to the Mahomes/Allen heavyweight fight in the 4pm slot.
I know it's not fair to compare but those are the QB's this team has to beat to even get to a Super Bowl. So either we need a defensive mind to corral them or T Law has to get to a level that can match some of their ridiculousness game-breaking plays. Trevor has definitely made a few plays that are memorable but this season, but the glimpse of that level of play are so few and that it can definitely be discouraging that he may never get to that level.
Trever could definitely get there, and hopefully will. But I'm don't think that outcome is currently the betting favorite right now.
(10-17-2022, 10:08 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 09:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
I'm not a hater. My main frustrations though is comparing T-Law's game in the 1 pm slot to the Mahomes/Allen heavyweight fight in the 4pm slot.
I know it's not fair to compare but those are the QB's this team has to beat to even get to a Super Bowl. So either we need a defensive mind to corral them or T Law has to get to a level that can match some of their ridiculousness game-breaking plays. Trevor has definitely made a few plays that are memorable but this season, but the glimpse of that level of play are so few and that it can definitely be discouraging that he may never get to that level.
Trever could definitely get there, and hopefully will. But I'm don't think that outcome is currently the betting favorite right now.
Don't do that.
Don't compare the 2 best teams in the league with the 2 best QBs in the league to a team fresh off of having back to back #1 picks. Of course we want to get there but the Bills didn't get there overnight. The Chiefs had a playoff team and THEN added Mahomes. The AFC is absolutely loaded and it will be tough for a long time but comparing this team and QB to the best in the league will always be a let down.
(10-17-2022, 10:08 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 09:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what else the haters wanted to see from Trevor on Sunday.
Gave them a 14-3 lead to start the game. Led a TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. Led a potential game winning drive where he hit multiple big passes including a rocket to Zay on 3rd and 12. The kid is the future of this franchise and it's time to get on board.
I'm not a hater. My main frustrations though is comparing T-Law's game in the 1 pm slot to the Mahomes/Allen heavyweight fight in the 4pm slot.
I know it's not fair to compare but those are the QB's this team has to beat to even get to a Super Bowl. So either we need a defensive mind to corral them or T Law has to get to a level that can match some of their ridiculousness game-breaking plays. Trevor has definitely made a few plays that are memorable but this season, but the glimpse of that level of play are so few and that it can definitely be discouraging that he may never get to that level.
Trever could definitely get there, and hopefully will. But I'm don't think that outcome is currently the betting favorite right now.
Again, Josh Allen didn't even have a 300 yard game until his 3rd year. There's no reason at this point to think Trevor can't get there.
(10-16-2022, 07:41 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 07:00 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]What play today led you to this stunning take?
The sack to take us out of field goal range on the first drive. Every decent QB knows you can't take a sack in that situation and would throw the ball away.
The OT should know to grab that dude and take the flag instead allowing the sack to walk right past him.
(10-17-2022, 12:05 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-16-2022, 07:41 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]The sack to take us out of field goal range on the first drive. Every decent QB knows you can't take a sack in that situation and would throw the ball away.
The OT should know to grab that dude and take the flag instead allowing the sack to walk right past him.
Lawrence is damned he if does, damned if he doesn't with some of the folks on here. Regardless of how solid his performance was. The reality is that, he took 10:00 minutes off the clock in the 4th quarter, went all the way downfield and scored a TD to take the lead with a little more than 2:00 minutes.
The defense, as they showed all [BLEEP] day, could not get off the football field and they couldn't put Ryan on his [BLEEP]. When the game was on the line, they choked. In particular. Griffin choked. He should be liable for giving back at least 1% of his cap hit he carries on this team's roster for that kind of performance.
He's the veteran of the secondary. He's one of the more experienced players we have defensively. Has at least one pro-bowl credited to his name and he's the highest paid player on the football team. That kind of [BLEEP] simply cannot happen. It's inexcusable. He got absolutely HANDLED yesterday by a rookie.
(10-17-2022, 08:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:25 AM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]That passing chart indicates that TLaw is right handed and favors that side.
Somewhat.
Moreso, it indicates how much pressure he was evading from he left side of his line.
I’m gonna stop you before you even start that oline crap. This chart indicates he is not going through his progressions and he is hitting safe passes.
Matt Ryan had the little giants offensive line blocking for him and he didn’t have any issues.
That offensive line looked mighty good when #22 broke one off. The offensive line looked pretty good when we went for 18 plays and scored the go ahead TD.
(10-17-2022, 02:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 12:05 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The OT should know to grab that dude and take the flag instead allowing the sack to walk right past him.
Lawrence is damned he if does, damned if he doesn't with some of the folks on here. Regardless of how solid his performance was. The reality is that, he took 10:00 minutes off the clock in the 4th quarter, went all the way downfield and scored a TD to take the lead with a little more than 2:00 minutes.
The defense, as they showed all [BLEEP] day, could not get off the football field and they couldn't put Ryan on his [BLEEP]. When the game was on the line, they choked. In particular. Griffin choked. He should be liable for giving back at least 1% of his cap hit he carries on this team's roster for that kind of performance.
He's the veteran of the secondary. He's one of the more experienced players we have defensively. Has at least one pro-bowl credited to his name and he's the highest paid player on the football team. That kind of [BLEEP] simply cannot happen. It's inexcusable. He got absolutely HANDLED yesterday by a rookie.
Yeah man Griffin got embarrassed. He couldn’t even catch the guy to even hold him or tackle him for a PI. He just got straight up whipped over the top. No safety help over the top. Jenkins definitely ain’t getting there. Cisco could have possibly covered a lot of ground but Ryan dropped a dime right on Griffin’s dome. Griff got chewed up all game.
(10-15-2022, 03:04 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]There you go again.
Andrew Luck was a 54% passer his rookie year and he threw 18 Ints. Lamar Jackson got 7 starts and went 58% with 6 TDs and 3 picks, Watson played well in limited games before his knee injury. Wilson went to a .500-ish team in Seattle and played well. You seem to have this penchant for warping history to your preferred narrative even if it means you have to ignore the facts. Of course you also choose to omit that most of those guys went to teams that were light years better than the Jaguars. But that's to be expected. Shame.
Luck put up 4,374 yards in his rookie year while getting sacked a total of 41 times, throwing the ball to nobodies....You want to talk about his team that year? Let's see, Reggie Wayne way past his prime. The biggest weapon he had was TY Hilton. They were historicially the worst team to go 11-5 that year. Luck winning 4 playoff games with that garbage is impressive itself. He was ranked top 10 QB both in 2012 and 2013. Better than Lawrence.
Lamar took over for Joe Flacco Ravens that were (4-5) to start the season, he took over and led Baltimore on a 6-1 run to end the regular season, helping the team make the playoffs for the first time since 2014. That's impressive in itself. Better than Lawrence.
Watson had six starts in his rookie year, with 19 TDs and 8 INTs with 1,700 throwing yards. Your boy lawrence had more picks than throwing TDs in a total of 17 games last year.
(10-17-2022, 04:08 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 08:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Somewhat.
Moreso, it indicates how much pressure he was evading from he left side of his line.
I’m gonna stop you before you even start that oline crap. This chart indicates he is not going through his progressions and he is hitting safe passes.
Matt Ryan had the little giants offensive line blocking for him and he didn’t have any issues.
That offensive line looked mighty good when #22 broke one off. The offensive line looked pretty good when we went for 18 plays and scored the go ahead TD.
(10-17-2022, 02:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence is damned he if does, damned if he doesn't with some of the folks on here. Regardless of how solid his performance was. The reality is that, he took 10:00 minutes off the clock in the 4th quarter, went all the way downfield and scored a TD to take the lead with a little more than 2:00 minutes.
The defense, as they showed all [BLEEP] day, could not get off the football field and they couldn't put Ryan on his [BLEEP]. When the game was on the line, they choked. In particular. Griffin choked. He should be liable for giving back at least 1% of his cap hit he carries on this team's roster for that kind of performance.
He's the veteran of the secondary. He's one of the more experienced players we have defensively. Has at least one pro-bowl credited to his name and he's the highest paid player on the football team. That kind of [BLEEP] simply cannot happen. It's inexcusable. He got absolutely HANDLED yesterday by a rookie.
Yeah man Griffin got embarrassed. He couldn’t even catch the guy to even hold him or tackle him for a PI. He just got straight up whipped over the top. No safety help over the top. Jenkins definitely ain’t getting there. Cisco could have possibly covered a lot of ground but Ryan dropped a dime right on Griffin’s dome. Griff got chewed up all game.
It was bad. B.A.D. Bad. I am willing to bet once all 17 weeks have been played and graded. His performance yesterday is more than likely going to be in the running for the worst overall CB performance on the year. Not exaggerating. There's about, what, 272 games overall in a 17 week season? [BLEEP] bad man.
(10-17-2022, 02:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-17-2022, 12:05 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The OT should know to grab that dude and take the flag instead allowing the sack to walk right past him.
Lawrence is damned he if does, damned if he doesn't with some of the folks on here. Regardless of how solid his performance was. The reality is that, he took 10:00 minutes off the clock in the 4th quarter, went all the way downfield and scored a TD to take the lead with a little more than 2:00 minutes.
The defense, as they showed all [BLEEP] day, could not get off the football field and they couldn't put Ryan on his [BLEEP]. When the game was on the line, they choked. In particular. Griffin choked. He should be liable for giving back at least 1% of his cap hit he carries on this team's roster for that kind of performance.
He's the veteran of the secondary. He's one of the more experienced players we have defensively. Has at least one pro-bowl credited to his name and he's the highest paid player on the football team. That kind of [BLEEP] simply cannot happen. It's inexcusable. He got absolutely HANDLED yesterday by a rookie.
Lawrence got outplayed by a 39 year old grandpa at QB last Sunday.