I thought we were getting an All Pro in Scherff... I am ready to have a new RG next season tbh
(10-02-2023, 10:27 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]I thought we were getting an All Pro in Scherff... I am ready to have a new RG next season tbh
The contract he signed really has an out this coming offseason and I don't expect him to be back. At 31 he's reached the top of the hill and looks like he's headed down the other side; the career full of injuries had to be taking a toll by now.
The entire interior needs to be overhauled. Should be getting familiar with names like Bebee, Mahogany & Zinter at guard and Van Pran and Nugent at center.
Other than the draft you would have to hope guys like Onwenu or a guy that stepped in for a starter and played above average hits the market.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
(10-01-2023, 01:42 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The aggressiveness will go up play calling wise in the passing game once the pass protection shows that it can be trusted to handle it. Really depends on Robinson and the chain reaction it could have for the rest of the starting lineup. I still think they could use some more bootlegs and rollouts though. Feels like Lawrence is at his best outside of the pocket. I liked his decision making today with his legs. If teams continue to play man coverage and turn their backs on him he should be doing that more often than not.
I still see this team barely getting into the post season and maybe getting lucky and winning one game. Just not much different from last year with the exception of Ridley being added offensively. The turnovers have been cut down on. Which is great. We're 2 - 2 this year after four games just like last year though. If they beat Buffalo next Sunday I think it'll come down to the offense being better overall. I have my reservations with this defense up against Buffalo's offense.
I am actually glad they're getting that bye week earlier this year just so they can regroup, recalibrate and get some guys back healthier hopefully to make some adjustments to get the rest of the season cleaned up in the 2nd half.
Seemed like a lot of the passing went back to getting TLaw away from the pocket via rollout. Buys him an extra moment to survey the field or tuck and run.
If it works, keep calling it until it doesn't. Not gonna complain if it's working.
(10-02-2023, 01:25 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 01:42 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The aggressiveness will go up play calling wise in the passing game once the pass protection shows that it can be trusted to handle it. Really depends on Robinson and the chain reaction it could have for the rest of the starting lineup. I still think they could use some more bootlegs and rollouts though. Feels like Lawrence is at his best outside of the pocket. I liked his decision making today with his legs. If teams continue to play man coverage and turn their backs on him he should be doing that more often than not.
I still see this team barely getting into the post season and maybe getting lucky and winning one game. Just not much different from last year with the exception of Ridley being added offensively. The turnovers have been cut down on. Which is great. We're 2 - 2 this year after four games just like last year though. If they beat Buffalo next Sunday I think it'll come down to the offense being better overall. I have my reservations with this defense up against Buffalo's offense.
I am actually glad they're getting that bye week earlier this year just so they can regroup, recalibrate and get some guys back healthier hopefully to make some adjustments to get the rest of the season cleaned up in the 2nd half.
Seemed like a lot of the passing went back to getting TLaw away from the pocket via rollout. Buys him an extra moment to survey the field or tuck and run.
If it works, keep calling it until it doesn't. Not gonna complain if it's working.
Same. I like the designed rollouts where he has essentially a layered approach to attack with. They usually work with a TE and a pair of receivers that have them working a short, mid and deep level route for him to read and react to running from left to right with him. He has the arm to hit any level he wants.
We really need Zay Jones back as well. Would help.
(10-01-2023, 08:40 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 07:33 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not defending anyone
Just pointing some of the inaccurate garbage in someone's posts
Taylor could do better, he could do worse. We could have won every game with what he has called with better execution.
Just stating what is plainly obvious to me. That much is obvious to me.
I mean - complaining is part of being a fan. I get it. I'm just trying to narrow some of the complaining down to stuff that is actually a problem.
Running the ball against that matchup was a good idea BTW. Shame they never got it working much.
Personally - I feel great about the win!
You feel great about being 2-2, while scoring 9, 17, 13 on offense over the past 3 weeks??? All while we're about to go against the Bills, who just smashed the Dolphins? Both teams who scored 70 and 48 in prior weeks?!?!?
Bro, are you being paid by Shad Khan???
You're delusional.
It may also be that screaming at the cloud ain't gonna do anything, so why get your shorts in a stir over it?
Enjoy the team, enjoy the game. If they aren't enjoyable, find something different that makes you smile.
Throwing a tantrum here ain't doing much to make your arguments any more convincing. What if the D repeats 2021 again, and 9 pts is all it takes to down the juggernaut?
(10-01-2023, 09:05 PM)BaLLin4Life Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 06:24 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ].
I also already explained to you how I feel about Taylor. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. Disagree with me - but don't misrepresent what I've said. I don't hate him, don't love him. I'm neutral.
It's hard to be neutral with Press Taylor to be honest. We have the talent to be a top 5 offense and all he does is call dumb [BLEEP] plays.. that hinder our flow on offense. Seems to me that Doug is being lazy this year since he is letting this idiot hold the keys to the offense.
....Ironically, Cincy is probably saying the same thing about Zac and their team!
(10-02-2023, 01:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 01:25 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Seemed like a lot of the passing went back to getting TLaw away from the pocket via rollout. Buys him an extra moment to survey the field or tuck and run.
If it works, keep calling it until it doesn't. Not gonna complain if it's working.
Same. I like the designed rollouts where he has essentially a layered approach to attack with. They usually work with a TE and a pair of receivers that have them working a short, mid and deep level route for him to read and react to running from left to right with him. He has the arm to hit any level he wants.
We really need Zay Jones back as well. Would help.
Well, he's rolling out due to pressure 3 times a series now, so...
LOL
(10-02-2023, 02:49 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 01:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Same. I like the designed rollouts where he has essentially a layered approach to attack with. They usually work with a TE and a pair of receivers that have them working a short, mid and deep level route for him to read and react to running from left to right with him. He has the arm to hit any level he wants.
We really need Zay Jones back as well. Would help.
Well, he's rolling out due to pressure 3 times a series now, so...
LOL
Yeah. It's going to have to be by design. Would like to see less bubble screens and more screens with the TE near the line of scrimmage as well.
Might as well use our weakness as apart of the play design. The interior is so awful that defenders should bite hard on screens.
Etienne was a shoe string tackle away on a screen yesterday from probably housing a 40+ yard play. They almost had one against the Chiefs.
We're alllllmost there. Almost.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
(10-01-2023, 11:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We have three OL players grading in the 40's on PFF in pass pro
Was that the case last year ?
It's the same damn players from last year to this year. We only lost Taylor... Jesus, man. This is the same O-Line!!!
Fourtner, Barch, and Scherff were graded in the mid 40s or low 50s in 2022 in several games!!! A few weeks ago, I posted links about it. You ignored it, but it's still there. This is the same O-Line. Nothing has really changed.
For crying out loud, why are you trying to ignore the fact that our O-Line last year sucked too??? Oh... That's right, it's because you refuse to just admit reality if it doesn't fit into your pre-conception. I mean, it's fine if you want to ignore reality. Is Cam Robinson that important? Well, I guess we'll see...
But don't act as though this current O-Line is so much worse than last years. I'm sick of listening to it. Every analysis shows we're the same. I even posted sources on the OLine 2023 thread.
(10-01-2023, 10:52 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 10:08 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying that this O-Line is baller. But this O-Line is pretty much the same as last year.
Are you daft?
No, you?
(10-02-2023, 06:35 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-01-2023, 11:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We have three OL players grading in the 40's on PFF in pass pro
Was that the case last year ?
It's the same damn players from last year to this year. We only lost Taylor... Jesus, man. This is the same O-Line!!!
Fourtner, Barch, and Scherff were graded in the mid 40s or low 50s in 2022 in several games!!! A few weeks ago, I posted links about it. You ignored it, but it's still there. This is the same O-Line. Nothing has really changed.
For crying out loud, why are you trying to ignore the fact that our O-Line last year sucked too??? Oh... That's right, it's because you refuse to just admit reality if it doesn't fit into your pre-conception. I mean, it's fine if you want to ignore reality. Is Cam Robinson that important? Well, I guess we'll see...
But don't act as though this current O-Line is so much worse than last years. I'm sick of listening to it. Every analysis shows we're the same. I even posted sources on the OLine 2023 thread.
LOL
OK
The line is letting pressure thru more frequently and faster than last year.
They sucked last year and they suck more now.
If you weren't such an ignorantly blathering newb/returning from absence - you'd know I carried on in 3 different threads all throughout last year showing how much pressure our interior line was letting through.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining it or illustrating it for you. You never get it anyway.
Carry on
(10-02-2023, 07:14 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]derp
wow. Well I'm convinced. What an amazing rebuttal of my research. Just acknowledge you're wrong, and we'll move on.
Best,
~Carp
(10-02-2023, 07:11 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They sucked last year and they suck more now.
So I had some time to go back to last year...
Guess what? Our O-Line was graded almost exactly as this current O-Line...
Preseason 2022, PFF graded us as the 26th best O-Line ?https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-l...tiers-2022
Preseason 2023, PFF graded us as the 26th best O-Line ?https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-l...-offseason
But Carp, Press Taylor apologists say that this O-Line is so bad that we can't run the same offense we did last year. So obviously, PFF is wrong and Press Taylor's biggest fan is right.
OK... Totally understand. PFF makes you pay for getting a deep dive into their metrics. So why don't we go to an objective source and see how they grade O-Lines. ESPN. ESPN provides analysis for O-Lines. The study of Pass Blocking and Run Blocking. Of course, this is a discussion of Pass Blocking (PB), so we'll ignore any Run Blocking (RB) metrics. ESPN did a study in 2022 regarding the PB win rate of O-Lines for the entire season. PB Win Rate is discussed here: ?https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2489...q-how-work
And here's the 2023 current analysis of PB win rate: ?https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3835...eams#teams
The assertion of ESPN's analysis is that "...we (ESPN) finally have objective individual stats for linemen for their most critical tasks -- defending and attacking the passer. We can also know who is blocking whom on every snap, who was double-teamed, who got pressure from the edges and who got pressure by collapsing the pocket. The end result is that we can assess individual performance and team-level performance in the trenches separate and apart from the performance of the quarterback, receivers and secondary."
On January 10, 2023 ESPN posted their analysis for O-Line individual and team metrics. Just to remind those that may not be aware. In 2022, the Jacksonville Jaguars made it the AFC Divisional Round, and only barely lost to the eventual SB champs.
So, back to the ESPN analysis. From their analysis, the Jaguar PB success rate was 31st best in the NFL. And to be honest, if anyone wanted to objectively consider last year, Trevor was getting harrased constantly last year. Similar to this year.
You know why? Because we basically have the same O-Line.
The metrics don't lie, my friends. The O-Line was bad last year. The O-Line is bad this year...
Just to make it easy to understand, and then you can go study my references:
2022: Jaguars O-Line was trash.
2023: Jaguars O-Line is pretty much the same as 2022.
I've provided the objective analysis from PFF and ESPN. Not some fan boy lover of Press Taylor, or some angsty blowhard hater of Press Taylor. This is middle of the road analysis, with no horse in the game. The O-Line last year was just as bad as the O-Line this year. Everyone outside of the fanbase agrees.
Yet last year we were much more explosive than we are so far this year. Something has changed. And it wasn't the performance of the perennially bad O-Line.
Dude.
The offense had some pretty bad games last year. Did you forget?
(10-02-2023, 07:16 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:14 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]derp
wow. Well I'm convinced. What an amazing rebuttal of my research. Just acknowledge you're wrong, and we'll move on.
Best,
~Carp
I thought we agreed to give you some safe space to whine and carry on without me showing you how stupid you are?? Or did you forget your little tantrum about how mean I am?
Why do you keep poking the bear?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/hpSOjkcvhDgbv9p92R/giphy.gif)
(10-02-2023, 07:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:16 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]wow. Well I'm convinced. What an amazing rebuttal of my research. Just acknowledge you're wrong, and we'll move on.
Best,
~Carp
I thought we agreed to give you some safe space to whine and carry on without me showing you how stupid you are?? Or did you forget your little tantrum about how mean I am?
Why do you keep poking the bear?
You just run away from every thread I'm calling you out on...
Why not try and discuss what I pointed out?
Oh, by the way, Ron Swanson turned out to be a socialist, you realize that, right? He hated government at first, then realize he loved government workers that helped people (Leslie Knope, Andy Dwyer, etc) and then he retired as a government worker, happily knowing that his paycheck was being given to him by taxpayers while he enjoyed the beauty of Nature that the Federal Government protected....
The gif you posted is actually a critique of capitalism. A crappy store with idiots that have no training on how to provide assistance. The customers are the real labor that produce the real work, but refuse to be paid minimum wage. "I know more than you" In that scene, Ron's working a job that he hates and would rather be the expert in an organization that really loves this type of work. The work that this snot nosed kid is doing for a pittance and has no clue about.
Ironic...
(10-02-2023, 07:53 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I thought we agreed to give you some safe space to whine and carry on without me showing you how stupid you are?? Or did you forget your little tantrum about how mean I am?
Why do you keep poking the bear?
You just run away from every thread I'm calling you out on...
Why not try and discuss what I pointed out?
Oh, by the way, Ron Swanson turned out to be a socialist, you realize that, right? He hated government at first, then realize he loved government workers that helped people (Leslie Knope, Andy Dwyer, etc) and then he retired as a government worker, happily knowing that his paycheck was being given to him by taxpayers while he enjoyed the beauty of Nature that the Federal Government protected....
The gif you posted is actually a critique of capitalism. A crappy store with idiots that have no training on how to provide assistance. The customers are the real labor that produce the real work, but refuse to be paid minimum wage. "I know more than you" In that scene, Ron's working a job that he hates and would rather be the expert in an organization that really loves this type of work. The work that this snot nosed kid is doing for a pittance and has no clue about.
Ironic...
I don't really enjoy talking about football with someone who doesn't understand it.
If you had actually made a relevant point - maybe - but you didn't.
in that scene Ron is shopping and gets approached by an employee who says "Can I help you" and he informs him of why that isn't possible. It's a joke and a funny one. It's also exactly how I feel when you think you're making some kind of point about football.
Sorry
Is what it is.
(10-02-2023, 08:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:53 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]You just run away from every thread I'm calling you out on...
Why not try and discuss what I pointed out?
Oh, by the way, Ron Swanson turned out to be a socialist, you realize that, right? He hated government at first, then realize he loved government workers that helped people (Leslie Knope, Andy Dwyer, etc) and then he retired as a government worker, happily knowing that his paycheck was being given to him by taxpayers while he enjoyed the beauty of Nature that the Federal Government protected....
The gif you posted is actually a critique of capitalism. A crappy store with idiots that have no training on how to provide assistance. The customers are the real labor that produce the real work, but refuse to be paid minimum wage. "I know more than you" In that scene, Ron's working a job that he hates and would rather be the expert in an organization that really loves this type of work. The work that this snot nosed kid is doing for a pittance and has no clue about.
Ironic...
I don't really enjoy talking about football with someone who doesn't understand it.
If you had actually made a relevant point - maybe - but you didn't.
in that scene Ron is approached by an employee who says "Can I help you" and he informs him of why that isn't the possible. It's a joke and a funny one. It's also exactly how I feel when you think you're making some kind of point about football.
Sorry
Is what it is.
Fair enough. You can see things different than me. That's fine.
But you can't insult my intelligence the way you are doing. I will not allow it. I have provided data points all over this forum why my opinion is valid. And you have not been able to address my points in any thread that I have tried to engage you within.
If you want to no longer discuss things with me, so be it. You can say you disagree with me. But stop insulting my intelligence. I know just as much as you. You are not more intelligent in terms of football, or really anything, than I am.
So if you continue to insult me, you may as well assume I will insult you back. You are not better than me. You are not better than anyone on this forum. Just because you are a MOD doesn't make you better than any other person here. Stop behaving that way.
(10-02-2023, 07:24 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 07:11 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]2022: Jaguars O-Line was trash.
2023: Jaguars O-Line is pretty much the same as 2022.
Yet last year we were much more explosive than we are so far this year. Something has changed. And it wasn't the performance of the perennially bad O-Line.
Dude.
The offense had some pretty bad games last year. Did you forget?
No, I remember... But that isn't really my point. The offense was bad at times last year. Sure. No doubt. The offense was still dynamic last year and more explosive than they have been so far this year. That's my point.
Ya'll realize that in 2022, Lawrence had 8 TDs after 4 games.
You know how many TDs Lawrence has now, after 4 games?
4
4 TDs.
The O-Line is just as bad. But Lawrence has 50% less TDs... So what has changed????
(10-02-2023, 08:07 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ] (10-02-2023, 08:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really enjoy talking about football with someone who doesn't understand it.
If you had actually made a relevant point - maybe - but you didn't.
in that scene Ron is approached by an employee who says "Can I help you" and he informs him of why that isn't the possible. It's a joke and a funny one. It's also exactly how I feel when you think you're making some kind of point about football.
Sorry
Is what it is.
Fair enough. You can see things different than me. That's fine.
But you can't insult my intelligence the way you are doing. I will not allow it. I have provided data points all over this forum why my opinion is valid. And you have not been able to address my points in any thread that I have tried to engage you within.
If you want to no longer discuss things with me, so be it. You can say you disagree with me. But stop insulting my intelligence. I know just as much as you. You are not more intelligent in terms of football, or really anything, than I am.
So if you continue to insult me, you may as well assume I will insult you back. You are not better than me. You are not better than anyone on this forum. Just because you are a MOD doesn't make you better than any other person here. Stop behaving that way.
Pointing out to me that the line was bad last year doesn't do anything here
I was the resident offensive-line-complainer-abouter here all season last year.
Comparing some overall ranking of grades or random game grades doesn't do anything for the argument either.
My stance this whole time has been that
the bad line play (and other player performance matters) are affecting the offense's production negatively more so than Press Taylor's calls are. You think it's more about Press Taylor, but you haven't done anything to prove that, my man. You've cited some stuff - but none of it serves to break down what really happened in the first 4 weeks of this season and assign it to Press Taylor. In a lot of ways it's kind of impossible to prove.
If you think the past four weeks have shown a line playing just like last year, great. Believe that. I disagree. I think pressure has affected Trevor more in critical situations to end or stall drives over these first few weeks than it typically did last season. No big deal.
Just let it play out.
We all want the line to be better. We all want fewer mistakes. We all wish Press would do at least a few things differently - and you want him drawn and quartered apparently.
Just let it play out.
We'll have better analysis after more games. I don't give a damn about being right about it - just wanna see it get better.
If Press Taylor gets his duties taken away and our line still sucks - but the offense takes off - I'll buy you a Tre Herndon jersey. OK? LOL