(09-17-2023, 05:02 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 04:56 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]1st and goal at the 1 yard line.... Your OL really can't get you 1 [BLEEP] yard? Zero faith in them? No clue why they tried to get so cute there. Slam that RB into the middle 4 straight times if that's what it takes. All you need is 1 yard, stop running sideways when you only need 1 FFS.
Exactly.
This was the second biggest issue I had in this Chiefs game. We have ETN who always manages to fall forward, a RB selected in the 3rd round for that exact scenario, and a 6'6" QB who could sneak it in there.
Our coaches overthink some obvious playcalls at times. I get sometimes where a little razzle-dazzle is needed and works, but I feel like we have been leaning into that a little too much recently.
ETN I believe wasn't in the game at that point... cramps
(09-17-2023, 06:06 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 05:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Is OC Press Taylor playcalling hurting the offense? The offensive line has been an issue, but there were chances to make plays, and the Jaguars just missed them. QB Trevor Lawrence overthrew an open Zay Jones in the end zone, Lawrence missed Calvin Ridley in the back of the end zone, Christian Kirk dropped a third-down pass, and Jamal Agnew fumbled a lateral. The unit didn't play cleanly (just 4.2 yards per play), but it was more related to OL issues and execution than playcalling.
That's Mike DiRoco's take. ^
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It didn’t during the last half of last season, if what Doug said is true. It seemed very conservative today. And that cross field pass by Kirk to ETN. Why, that was cuter than a basket of kittens. Wth was that?
It's not true. The offensive play calling last year compared to this year. The route designs. The concepts, the play calling based on down and distance are night and day compared to last year. And you know it. Just because a coach says something doesn't mean it's the truth. You're too wise to believe that nonsense after watching the last 2 weeks.
This offense looks nothing like last years offense. And that has nothing to do with the O-Line. This is all about Press Taylor taking over now and Doug Pederson running the offense last year.
(09-17-2023, 04:56 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]1st and goal at the 1 yard line.... Your OL really can't get you 1 [BLEEP] yard? Zero faith in them? No clue why they tried to get so cute there. Slam that RB into the middle 4 straight times if that's what it takes. All you need is 1 yard, stop running sideways when you only need 1 FFS.
Jags not gonna do the Jalen Hurts play? 49ers did it today with Brock Purdy…..
(09-17-2023, 06:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 04:56 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]1st and goal at the 1 yard line.... Your OL really can't get you 1 [BLEEP] yard? Zero faith in them? No clue why they tried to get so cute there. Slam that RB into the middle 4 straight times if that's what it takes. All you need is 1 yard, stop running sideways when you only need 1 FFS.
Jags not gonna do the Jalen Hurts play? 49ers did it today with Brock Purdy…..
We're too busy running our 6'6 QB sideways when we only need 1 yard.
Pederson needs to figure out his job is to coach the team to wins not get Press Tayor a HC job.
Razzle Dazzle works when you wear a defense down and you catch them napping mentally.
Credulous at best, that, this staff thought a trick play was actually going to work against a team that has a coach, QB and TE constantly practicing and doing razzle dazzle [BLEEP] for fun during practice and in games.
Sometimes. Like I said in the earlier thread. You have to accept your teams weaknesses and play to their strengths. You know the interior line is bad. So, you had to have extra blockers to help against Jones.
The few times they actually involved the TE's in lead blocking plays? Etienne was getting more than his 3.3 YPC average today. The few times I saw it? He got 5 or more.
Our best run came from Lawrence. Something I said was going to have to happen to win some drives today. Should have done it more. His best pass today? Came on a [BLEEP] roll out that was designed.
Again, he's a good QB outside the pocket and on the run. Should have been more of that to get AWAY from Chris Jones. They should have stacked their receivers more in bunches.
It's just aggravating as a fan with what seems obvious to me and yet they don't do it enough. Especially with as good as the defense played today. This offense has been the issue 2 weeks in.
They have to take no prisoners this Sunday against the tinhorns. I can stomach the loss to KC. I am over it. They have a HoF QB, TE and HC. They have a HoF DE/DT. They have played in 3 titles and won 2 of them. Fine. I can accept that loss.
I cannot [BLEEP] accept this pig slop against the tinhorns though. CANNOT. After last year's home loss to them? No. You better wreck their [BLEEP]. The offense was 0/4 in the redzone today. Son of [BLEEP] better be 5/5 or better next Sunday.
Get it the [BLEEP] done. No excuses. Work the kinks out. Accept the weaknesses within the interior. Start installing more TE involvement with lead blocking and pulling back around to help the interior. Start installing the bootleg and designed sprints with layered flood routes to one side of the field. Start uninstalling those goofy [BLEEP] gimmick and gadget plays.
Enough with the pattycake [BLEEP].
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(09-17-2023, 06:32 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Pederson needs to figure out his job is to coach the team to wins not get Press Tayor a HC job.
This. I think this is what led to his departure in Philly. Howie and the owner wanted him to be the coach, not the farm system talent developer.
Same thing was going on last year when he hired Caldwell. Fortunately, Caldwell is finally starting to resemble a competent coordinator, but today Spagnuolo basically owned a copy of the Jaguars' playbook. It makes you realize the difference between a good vs. marginal coordinator. Press Taylor got dismantled. Having Chris Jones on your team doesn't hurt either.
(09-17-2023, 06:37 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Razzle Dazzle works when you wear a defense down and you catch them napping mentally.
Credulous at best, that, this staff thought a trick play was actually going to work against a team that has a coach, QB and TE constantly practicing and doing razzle dazzle [BLEEP] for fun during practice and in games.
Sometimes. Like I said in the earlier thread. You have to accept your teams weaknesses and play to their strengths. You know the interior line is bad. So, you had to have extra blockers to help against Jones.
The few times they actually involved the TE's in lead blocking plays? Etienne was getting more than his 3.3 YPC average today. The few times I saw it? He got 5 or more.
Our best run came from Lawrence. Something I said was going to have to happen to win some drives today. Should have done it more. His best pass today? Came on a [BLEEP] roll out that was designed.
Again, he's a good QB outside the pocket and on the run. Should have been more of that to get AWAY from Chris Jones. They should have stacked their receivers more in bunches.
It's just aggravating as a fan with what seems obvious to me and yet they don't do it enough. Especially with as good as the defense played today. This offense has been the issue 2 weeks in.
They have to take no prisoners this Sunday against the tinhorns. I can stomach the loss to KC. I am over it. They have a HoF QB, TE and HC. They have a HoF DE/DT. They have played in 3 titles and won 2 of them. Fine. I can accept that loss.
I cannot [BLEEP] accept this pig slop against the tinhorns though. CANNOT. After last year's home loss to them? No. You better wreck their [BLEEP]. The offense was 0/4 in the redzone today. Son of [BLEEP] better be 5/5 or better next Sunday.
Get it the [BLEEP] done. No excuses. Work the kinks out. Accept the weaknesses within the interior. Start installing more TE involvement with lead blocking and pulling back around to help the interior. Start installing the bootleg and designed sprints with layered flood routes to one side of the field. Start uninstalling those goofy [BLEEP] gimmick and gadget plays.
Enough with the pattycake [BLEEP].
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I need to get Shad on the phone. You need to be added to the payroll as a consultant. I agree with everything you said. I would've liked to have seen more two TE sets today. The Chiefs CBs played lights out today on the outside. Also, seeing Etienne split out wide as receiver made me cringe. That's too cutesy. And Agnew needs to play slot and operate like a real receiver if he's in the game at all. Don't just use him as a running back for gadget plays and backward passes. Press telegraphs everything.
(09-17-2023, 06:37 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Razzle Dazzle works when you wear a defense down and you catch them napping mentally.
Credulous at best, that, this staff thought a trick play was actually going to work against a team that has a coach, QB and TE constantly practicing and doing razzle dazzle [BLEEP] for fun during practice and in games.
Sometimes. Like I said in the earlier thread. You have to accept your teams weaknesses and play to their strengths. You know the interior line is bad. So, you had to have extra blockers to help against Jones.
The few times they actually involved the TE's in lead blocking plays? Etienne was getting more than his 3.3 YPC average today. The few times I saw it? He got 5 or more.
Our best run came from Lawrence. Something I said was going to have to happen to win some drives today. Should have done it more. His best pass today? Came on a [BLEEP] roll out that was designed.
Again, he's a good QB outside the pocket and on the run. Should have been more of that to get AWAY from Chris Jones. They should have stacked their receivers more in bunches.
It's just aggravating as a fan with what seems obvious to me and yet they don't do it enough. Especially with as good as the defense played today. This offense has been the issue 2 weeks in.
They have to take no prisoners this Sunday against the tinhorns. I can stomach the loss to KC. I am over it. They have a HoF QB, TE and HC. They have a HoF DE/DT. They have played in 3 titles and won 2 of them. Fine. I can accept that loss.
I cannot [BLEEP] accept this pig slop against the tinhorns though. CANNOT. After last year's home loss to them? No. You better wreck their [BLEEP]. The offense was 0/4 in the redzone today. Son of [BLEEP] better be 5/5 or better next Sunday.
Get it the [BLEEP] done. No excuses. Work the kinks out. Accept the weaknesses within the interior. Start installing more TE involvement with lead blocking and pulling back around to help the interior. Start installing the bootleg and designed sprints with layered flood routes to one side of the field. Start uninstalling those goofy [BLEEP] gimmick and gadget plays.
Enough with the pattycake [BLEEP].
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You know how many TD's Trevor Lawrence had last year from a designed roll out last year?
I don't know the exact number. But the answer is "a lot".
This isn't the same offense. I'm done with people saying that Press Taylor was calling plays last year. He wasn't. He's calling and designing plays this year. And the offense does not look the same.
https://www.jaguars.com/video/highlight-...022-season
These are highlights, I get it. But look at the routes and the concepts of these plays from 2022. This team's offense looks nothing like last year. We are predictable now. But you know what's worse? We aren't giving potential HOF QB any opportunity to make plays. Last year, route concepts and play designs were giving Lawrence options to read the coverage and find the open reciever. I'm sorry, but you don't see the same thing so far after 2 weeks.
(09-17-2023, 05:59 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (09-17-2023, 05:58 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]What is doubly disappointing is that KC handed us the opportunity to take the lead on multiple occasions with turnovers and penalties, and yet we could not capitalize. Doug better get his [BLEEP] together.
Is OC Press Taylor playcalling hurting the offense? The offensive line has been an issue, but there were chances to make plays, and the Jaguars just missed them. QB Trevor Lawrence overthrew an open Zay Jones in the end zone, Lawrence missed Calvin Ridley in the back of the end zone, Christian Kirk dropped a third-down pass, and Jamal Agnew fumbled a lateral. The unit didn't play cleanly (just 4.2 yards per play), but it was more related to OL issues and execution than playcalling.
That's Mike DiRoco's take. ^
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Of course that's DiRocco's take, because he's buddy-buddy with the coaches so he can continue to talk to them.
Between bad play calling and Trevor looking like he was several slices short of a loaf of bread....
We have entirely too much talent (and money) in this team for a [BLEEP] show like we saw today. I realize we have weak spots but a solid coach finds a way to play to the strengths of the team, of which we have many, to help manage those weak spots. The play calling has got to be better.
Yeah, this is the Chiefs, but so what? They can be beaten, the evidence being their last game. Their offense was bad in the first half with our defensive interceptions setting up our offense to score, not to mention Jawaan Taylor's multiple penalties that set us up in better positions. And for what?! Not a damn thing.
I refuse to watch the post game show or interviews because short of an Invasion of the Body Snatchers scenario there is no excuse for what we saw today.
I feel like they tried to over compensate for a bad offensive line. We kept doing short screen passes or quick passes to the perimeter and the chiefs sniffed it out. We never let Trevor drop back and play the mid to deep game.
(09-17-2023, 07:07 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Between bad play calling and Trevor looking like he was several slices short of a loaf of bread....
We have entirely too much talent (and money) in this team for a [BLEEP] show like we saw today. I realize we have weak spots but a solid coach finds a way to play to the strengths of the team, of which we have many, to help manage those weak spots. The play calling has got to be better.
Yeah, this is the Chiefs, but so what? They can be beaten, the evidence being their last game. Their offense was bad in the first half with our defensive interceptions setting up our offense to score, not to mention Jawaan Taylor's multiple penalties that set us up in better positions. And for what?! Not a damn thing.
I refuse to watch the post game show or interviews because short of an Invasion of the Body Snatchers scenario there is no excuse for what we saw today.
LOL
I tend to agree with most of this. But I'm sorry, if Pederson doesn't want to voluntarily apologize for the offensive decisions and play calling, Shad Khan needs to put a gun to his head and force him to accept accountability in front of a camera for all to see.
For as bad our O-Line played, for as many drops as we had, for as many slightly off throws Trevor threw... We still should have won this game. It was the bad decisions on 4th down at the end of the 2nd Quarter, the bad decision 4th down in the the 2nd half to not kick the FG, the bad decision to not run it with ETN or Tank Bigsby at the 1 yard line in the 4th that truly cost us this game. And there's another bad decision I know I'm forgetting because I'm buzzed... All of these coaching/play calling decisions were what cost us this game.
I'll admit, that clearly a body snatcher has taking over Doug Pederson's mind if he think Press Taylor is worthy of running the offense on Sundays!!!! But that should be a discussion for another thread.
I think we could have used about 5 or 6 more WR/TE screens. We only had about a dozen, so the Chiefs were definitely not on to it yet.
On a serious note, maybe we just don't want to believe that our offensive line is so offensive. Feels like our (Press's) game plan is to have Trevor get rid of the ball in 1 second before he gets mauled by unblocked rushers. Feel like our O line poor play is setting the tone for the inept play calling.
I don't care about the opposing defense occasionally stopping our WR screens/swing plays etc...
I made this thread because of the apparent coaching mishaps when it comes to playcalling and the troubling perception of them being situationally unaware as a game unfolds. I understand Doug and Co are very aggressive when it comes to going for it on 4th downs but when its 4th and 5 at midfield with 4 minutes left in the half before the Chiefs get the ball back is just blatant mismanagement - especially with how well our defense was stifling their team as well as our special teams with the fumble on a previous punt and our field-flipping weapon Logan Cooke.
Furthermore, the lack of running plays with ETN/Tank/Johnson when we were a yard or two out of their goaline was equally bad. Just run ETN who finds a way to fall forward every time or Tank who was drafted for that scenario. Or like I said earlier, just sneak it up with your 6'6" QB because that's not the time to get very cute with the playcalls when there is significantly less field to work with especially in the passing game. Obviously TLaw missed a couple throws and our receivers couldn't drag another foot and missed multiple TD's by a mere couple of inches - but guess what led to those misses? The call to run those pass plays with a limited field at their endzone.
Another minor gripe I had in this game was not taking the 3 points at the end there instead of going for it. We lost regardless, but decisions like that could potentially lead to unnecessary struggles if presented with a similar situation in future games.
Still not an excuse for the lack of execution on the field by our players, but our coaches have to put our players in the best position to succeed by understanding what plays to run in these situationally-dependent scenarios. Again, I hope these playcalling miscues are just simply an anomaly and these things get corrected by next week and onward.
Just my opinion … but for the second straight week our play calling on 1st and 2nd down is way too conservative… I feel like Trevor is making good decisions with the ball right now not putting it in harms way… but if we had more rhythm passes on early downs instead of rpo runs up the middle nearly every first down; I think we could generate some more explosive plays with the weapons we have and with Lawrence’s decision making and arm talent.
I know people will say but the protection … but I think our protection is at its worst when we have play action seven step drop and try to utilize long developing concepts … I think when we operate more like in 2 minute mode we are at our best right now.
Running the ball, coupled with hard play action and gimmicky plays for our base offense plays more to our weakness at the moment which is our o line …
I think we should take the bengals approach the last couple of years with Burrow which also had horrible o line play and let him get into a rhythm passing game. With runs and screens and shots mixed in to keep them off balance.
A little like the chiefs were trying to do which allowed Mahomes to make just enough plays to win the game even in a sloppy one
With Trevor and all of our weapons it feels like we have a Ferrari in our hands but we are driving it like a Volkswagen.
~1:15, ~3:15 and ~6:15 are relevant timestamps.
But I sincerely hope he is kidding about still chucking it downfield if the 4th and 5 scenario was even 4th and 12 - and only punting if it was 4th and 15. The defense was playing lights out and what better way to minimize a potential score than to make Mahomes and his offense traverse 90+ yards after Logan Cooke flips the field for us. Not to mention potentially causing another turnover on special teams by kicking it right in the sun as the Chiefs returner already had issues earlier muffing the previous punt.
I like being aggressive, but there is a line that delineates being aggressive with an actual shot of converting versus being flat-out ignorant/stupid when it comes to that. I hope our playcallers aren't chronically situationally-unaware and this was just a one-off situation.
It feels eerily similar to the script of how last year went lol
(09-17-2023, 10:22 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care about the opposing defense occasionally stopping our WR screens/swing plays etc...
I made this thread because of the apparent coaching mishaps when it comes to playcalling and the troubling perception of them being situationally unaware as a game unfolds. I understand Doug and Co are very aggressive when it comes to going for it on 4th downs but when its 4th and 5 at midfield with 4 minutes left in the half before the Chiefs get the ball back is just blatant mismanagement - especially with how well our defense was stifling their team as well as our special teams with the fumble on a previous punt and our field-flipping weapon Logan Cooke.
Furthermore, the lack of running plays with ETN/Tank/Johnson when we were a yard or two out of their goaline was equally bad. Just run ETN who finds a way to fall forward every time or Tank who was drafted for that scenario. Or like I said earlier, just sneak it up with your 6'6" QB because that's not the time to get very cute with the playcalls when there is significantly less field to work with especially in the passing game. Obviously TLaw missed a couple throws and our receivers couldn't drag another foot and missed multiple TD's by a mere couple of inches - but guess what led to those misses? The call to run those pass plays with a limited field at their endzone.
Another minor gripe I had in this game was not taking the 3 points at the end there instead of going for it. We lost regardless, but decisions like that could potentially lead to unnecessary struggles if presented with a similar situation in future games.
Still not an excuse for the lack of execution on the field by our players, but our coaches have to put our players in the best position to succeed by understanding what plays to run in these situationally-dependent scenarios. Again, I hope these playcalling miscues are just simply an anomaly and these things get corrected by next week and onward.
I agree with you on all the points you made.
Actually some of these situations were there also last year especially in the first half: there were a few games where Etienne and RBs were averaging like 8-9 yard per carry and once in the RZ Doug started coming up with cute plays that got us in trouble, suddenly going away fromThe 4 what was working and overcomplicating stuff.
While yesterday was different I agree with what you said and he failed to understand several situations that turned decisive in the end.
The one situation at the end of the first half was especially bad as with the way the Chiefs offense was struggling there was no point in giving them 50 free yards with that 4th down call, especially as they were going to have the ball to start the half.
There was no point at all in going for it in that moment.
Well let's hope they figure it out and be better next time.
Some questionable play calls for sure BUT the team has to execute the plays that are called and they didn't do it. You can have the best game plan/play calling in the world and if a guy is catching passes out of bounds or dropping them or the OL can't block my grandmother than it's not going to matter.
I hope I'm wrong but Pederson was putting everything on execution of the plays. If he is really saying behind the scenes that the players need to do better and the play calls will magically work, then the Jags have a problem.
I truly hope behind the scenes he is calling everyone out and starting with the play calling. You can't expect the players to overcome terrible calls. You also can't expect the players to fix issues that they have during a game.
They need to go back to last years offense. Right now it seems Trevor is either just throwing it immediately to a predetermined WR or trying to wait for deep routes that aren't. How many times did they move the pocket yesterday? I remember 2 plays with a bootleg and they worked. If the OL is terrible, they have to move him around.
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