Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(12-18-2023, 12:40 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 12:23 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]As bad as the OL is, they actually blocked well in the 1st quarter. Then there were bad play calls, falling into old habits of calling plays where they can't run, and checking to run plays when run blitzes were on.

Press isn't the only problem but he is what has changed. He isn't getting the same results from the OL. You have to call plays the team can be successful with, not try to force things will all these plays that don't work.

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So they abandoned the run in the second half, but you wanted them to give up on it even sooner? 
OK

Press Taylor's calls got them FIVE scoring opportunities (not counting the one TD scored) and they botched every single one of them - and none of the botches had a damn thing to do with play calling. It was all stupid mistakes and poor execution. 

The stuffed runs on first down did not kill them. They overcame that and then quit doing it altogether. 
It's one thing to be frustrated watching a horrible OL fail to spring a running back - but you need to recognize that calling those plays did not affect the outcome.
The inability to continue calling runs and impossibility to get 3 or 4 yards from them definitely made things harder though. And that - again - is not on Press. 
 Even the bad clock management to end the half can look toward the receiver failing to get out of bounds and a good play by the defense to prevent it. He caught the ball 2 yards from the sideline. 

Man - I don't even like Press Taylor - but I keep having to defend the damn guy because ppl want to blame him for [BLEEP] that ain't his fault. LOL

This offense squandered 5 trips within scoring range. 
If those 5 trips end up 3 FGs and 2 TDs we win 30-23. 
That's bad execution.

False starts, bad throws, dropped balls, OL protection failures, and sloppy play in general. That's where the angst need be directed IMO. Even with a crap OL, they had a way to win and they [BLEEP] the bed.

No it's not about abandoning the run. They should run differently. The 1st quarter they were able to run the ball on the edges and counters. They were running hard. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal inside runs that don't work.

Trevor is also checking into bad plays, so either he isn't reading the defense or both plays are bad.

The offense isn't easy, it's always a struggle to move the ball. There is only 1 thing that can be changed at this point in the season and it is the play calling. The 2nd half they came out in heavy formations and were able to move the ball and scored. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal offense. Whether you want to admit it or not, the play calls are not putting them in positions to be successful.

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(12-18-2023, 11:03 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.

I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?

I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.

---

In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.

Being better than 4 teams isn't better than most.

What more do you want from our O-Line last night?  The pocket was clean for Trevor on most of his drop backs.  He had plenty of time to drop back and look over the field.  Last night was not on the O-Line.  This play calling is bad.  But it wasn't all on play calling.  But the coaching is not helping this offense.  It's obvious that they are telling Lawrence that he needs to get rid of the ball on his first read.  You can see it from how he's playing.  He had plenty of times where he could have gone to his second or even third reads and he just decided to run or throw it early.  

Again, I keep saying this, and it falls on deaf ears, but this offense looks nothing like what it looked like last year.  For the most part, everything is the same as last year.  We have some injuries on the Line, but so does every team.  To put the entire reason our offense is bad solely on the O-Line is just not accurate.

(12-18-2023, 02:21 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 12:40 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]So they abandoned the run in the second half, but you wanted them to give up on it even sooner? 
OK

Press Taylor's calls got them FIVE scoring opportunities (not counting the one TD scored) and they botched every single one of them - and none of the botches had a damn thing to do with play calling. It was all stupid mistakes and poor execution. 

The stuffed runs on first down did not kill them. They overcame that and then quit doing it altogether. 
It's one thing to be frustrated watching a horrible OL fail to spring a running back - but you need to recognize that calling those plays did not affect the outcome.
The inability to continue calling runs and impossibility to get 3 or 4 yards from them definitely made things harder though. And that - again - is not on Press. 
 Even the bad clock management to end the half can look toward the receiver failing to get out of bounds and a good play by the defense to prevent it. He caught the ball 2 yards from the sideline. 

Man - I don't even like Press Taylor - but I keep having to defend the damn guy because ppl want to blame him for [BLEEP] that ain't his fault. LOL

This offense squandered 5 trips within scoring range. 
If those 5 trips end up 3 FGs and 2 TDs we win 30-23. 
That's bad execution.

False starts, bad throws, dropped balls, OL protection failures, and sloppy play in general. That's where the angst need be directed IMO. Even with a crap OL, they had a way to win and they [BLEEP] the bed.

No it's not about abandoning the run. They should run differently. The 1st quarter they were able to run the ball on the edges  and counters. They were running hard. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal inside runs that don't work.

Trevor is also checking into bad plays, so either he isn't reading the defense or both plays are bad.

The offense isn't easy, it's always a struggle to move the ball. There is only 1 thing that can be changed at this point in the season and it is the play calling. The 2nd half they came out in heavy formations and were able to move the ball and scored. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal offense. Whether you want to admit it or not, the play calls are not putting them in positions to be successful.

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The play-calling literally put them in scoring range FIVE bloody times that came up with zero points due to stupid mistakes. 

LOL

(12-18-2023, 02:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 02:21 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]No it's not about abandoning the run. They should run differently. The 1st quarter they were able to run the ball on the edges  and counters. They were running hard. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal inside runs that don't work.

Trevor is also checking into bad plays, so either he isn't reading the defense or both plays are bad.

The offense isn't easy, it's always a struggle to move the ball. There is only 1 thing that can be changed at this point in the season and it is the play calling. The 2nd half they came out in heavy formations and were able to move the ball and scored. Then they abandoned that and went back to the normal offense. Whether you want to admit it or not, the play calls are not putting them in positions to be successful.

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The play-calling literally put them in scoring range FIVE bloody times that came up with zero points due to stupid mistakes. 

LOL

For FGs. Go watch the offense again, it was a struggle that took players overcoming the issues to move the ball. Last year the offense was better.

The offense is overcoming the OL, WRs, and Trevor making bad throws and fumbling. All of those affect the offense but the play calling is not putting them in a position to make it as easy as possible to succeed.


I think you are taking this that Press is stupid and can't call plays even if all the other issues are fixed. That's not the case. If the OL is good, WRs know what they are doing and aren't hurt, and Trevor isn't hurt and throwing bad, then Press should be fine. You can be a great offensive mind, but if you can't adapt your play calling to the players on the field, it doesn't matter, and you should be fired. Coaches have to put the players they have in positions to win. The Jags continue to try and force a square peg into a round hole.

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So odd that ppl think this offense is different than last year. LOL

It is almost exactly the same.

Trevor is on track for almost identical numbers in comp. % and yardage.
TD/INT ratio will likely end up pretty similar - a few more picks this year
Significantly more sacks on TL this year

we ran on first down last year 32% of the time.
29% this year (belying all the whining about how Press does this more LOL)

 22 points per game last year
23 ppg this year

The only glaring difference to me is that we went from being able to run the football a bit last year despite a bad line - to not being able to run it at all. The run design looks largely the same. Maybe a few more moving parts with the TEs and pulling guards than last year. Which would be normal in year two of a ZBS.

The X receiver does a few things different than last year because it's a new player.

Slot and Z receivers are doing the same stuff as 2022. Move TE is mostly doing the same stuff with an added wrinkle or two and more targets.

The scheme is the same, the playbook was expounded upon but definitely not changed.

Lots of the same situational calling with a few minor differences mixed in at times - nothing consistently different
We pass more to convert on 3rd/4th and short because the run game is so bad - but we didi that a lot last year too
nothing new there

We still struggle to protect
We still struggle in the red zone
We got worse at running the ball - that's the only real difference - and it sure looks like ETN getting blown up in the backfield is the culprit there - I guess Press Taylor should stop calling the runs that are designed to allow defensive tackles free reign of the backfield

It all starts up front. This is more about the Jimmy's and Joe's than the X's and O's.

Many were saying this offensive line was poor last year and needed major upgrading. Baalke and the Staff thought otherwise and did very little to improve this offensive line outside of replacing Taylor with a rookie. Thats why we have a beat up QB and a pathetic running game. The play calling can't hide the lack of talent up front. ETN runs into the wall while the QB has less than 3 seconds to throw the ball. Yes I am critical of Lawrence but it is not all on him. The pass Rush on the other side is also non existent outside of Allen and Walker.

We are too weak up front on both sides of the ball. You don't win in the NFL if you can't win in the trenches. We have so little trust we go shotgun almost all the time on 3rd and 4th and short. Pathetic lack of talent.

(12-18-2023, 11:03 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.

Being better than 4 teams isn't better than most.

Methinks you responded to the wrong post. 75% was giving full credit for the statements on QB, RB, WR. Zero credit given for the answer on OL.

(12-18-2023, 04:49 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 11:03 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Being better than 4 teams isn't better than most.

Methinks you responded to the wrong post. 75% was giving full credit for the statements on QB, RB, WR. Zero credit given for the answer on OL.

You are correct, my response was to the other person. I got a little trigger happy.

(12-18-2023, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]So odd that ppl think this offense is different than last year. LOL

It is almost exactly the same.

Trevor is on track for almost identical numbers in comp. % and yardage.
TD/INT ratio will likely end up pretty similar - a few more picks this year
Significantly more sacks on TL this year

we ran on first down last year 32% of the time.
29% this year (belying all the whining about how Press does this more LOL)

 22 points per game last year
23 ppg this year

The only glaring difference to me is that we went from being able to run the football a bit last year despite a bad line - to not being able to run it at all. The run design looks largely the same. Maybe a few more moving parts with the TEs and pulling guards than last year. Which would be normal in year two of a ZBS.

The X receiver does a few things different than last year because it's a new player.

Slot and Z receivers are doing the same stuff as 2022. Move TE is mostly doing the same stuff with an added wrinkle or two and more targets.

The scheme is the same, the playbook was expounded upon but definitely not changed.

Lots of the same situational calling with a few minor differences mixed in at times - nothing consistently different
We pass more to convert on 3rd/4th and short because the run game is so bad - but we didi that a lot last year too
nothing new there

We still struggle to protect
We still struggle in the red zone
We got worse at running the ball - that's the only real difference - and it sure looks like ETN getting blown up in the backfield is the culprit there - I guess Press Taylor should stop calling the runs that are designed to allow defensive tackles free reign of the backfield

If you watch the games... You can tell it looks different.  I don't know what to tell ya.

Showing Trevor Lawrence stats doesn't change the fact that this offense isn't run like it was last year.  Yeah, Lawrence is a great QB.  Based on your Logic, the O-Line isn't that bad because Lawrence is actually having a better year in terms of QBR, completion %, and yards per attempt!!!

It's not about how great Lawrence is.  That's another thread.  It's about how this offense looks, how this offense plays this year compared to last year.  Yeah, the OLine sucks.  The OLine isn't the only problem here.  And to ignore the fact that the offensive scheming, the runs up the middle, the fact that we're completely vanilla in terms of play calling is not helping the O-Line.  

Defenses know that we are running up the middle on first downs.  Defenses know that on passing downs we are getting the ball out quick so they all are sitting on routes not respecting deep routes.  That makes everything harder on everyone.  Defensive lines are pinning their ears back knowing what's coming.

Hell, we rarely even motion.  It's a regression on offense.  Showing Lawrence stats just shows how great he is inspite of the terrible game planning, play calling, and execution.

By the way, execution is not just on players.  Coaches should be emphasizing it.  We hear about lack of execution every week in press conferences.  And yet nothing changes...  Last year we saw the team improve from the start of the season to the end.  Including the O-Line, and we were nicked up last year too.  This year it looks like we're not getting any better, and honestly, it looks like we're regressing.

Yeah, injuries has something to do with it.  But every team has injuries.  That's not an excuse.

The bills have lost tons of players.  Look how well they are coming on at the end of the year.  I refuse to give excuses to the coaching staff.

EDIT: By the way... We didn't struggle in the red zone last year after the bye! Remember?? We got better in the red zone last year. By late November we were deadly in the Red Zone last year. Again, looks different this year compared to what we were after the London game last year. We got better. We executed better. We had great plays in the red zone dialed up last year. This year, we went backwards and we haven't improved. I mean, it's just obvious if you watch the games. Stats aren't going to explain the entire picture. But if you are watching and are being objective, you can see something is off. And no, it's not all because of the O-Line.

Old saying..."If you torture numbers enough...you can make them say anything you want"

Last year the Jags passed the eyeball test and won games....this season, for whatever reason, they have not been.
This season call it arrogance, reading their own press clippings, or whatever you want....
they're not.

Cut out the bull [BLEEP] and we are instantly a better team overall

(12-18-2023, 08:22 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]Cut out the bull [BLEEP] and we are instantly a better team overall

It's obvious they can't. There's a saying about doing the same thing again and again but expecting a different result.

The coaches have to adjust to the players, they can't force them to do something they aren't good at. Saying in post-game press conferences that they have to cut it out obviously hasn't changed anything.

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Since we can't run the ball, the opposing defense can rush the passer, and the opposing DBs can cover tight because they know Trevor won't have time beyond his first read. It's a cascading set of problems due to our inability to run the ball.

Press Taylor knows this. So he is forced to call plays to get the ball out of Trevor's hands quickly, but it's really hard to make it work when the opposing defense knows what's coming.

All this bull [BLEEP] about play calling is just that- bull [BLEEP]. They're calling the plays they have to call. They're severely handicapped by the inability of the offensive line to run-block. It's a personnel issue.

Consistency beats intensity. This team lacks consistency. While we can point the finger at this specific group or this specific coach? The reality is that, until this team finds consistency? It's going to keep getting beat senselessly.

I can call the perfect play out there 9 times out of 10 and it means nothing if guys are not consistently doing their jobs good enough to see those play calls executed properly. Lawrence has to be more consistent, the line has to be more consistent, the running game has to be more consistent, the discipline has to be more consistent, the defense needs to be more consistent.

You have to find the right players for that first. We simply don't have them and it shows up consistently against the consistently good football teams in this league. It is what it is.

(12-18-2023, 06:13 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2023, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]So odd that ppl think this offense is different than last year. LOL

It is almost exactly the same.

Trevor is on track for almost identical numbers in comp. % and yardage.
TD/INT ratio will likely end up pretty similar - a few more picks this year
Significantly more sacks on TL this year

we ran on first down last year 32% of the time.
29% this year (belying all the whining about how Press does this more LOL)

 22 points per game last year
23 ppg this year

The only glaring difference to me is that we went from being able to run the football a bit last year despite a bad line - to not being able to run it at all. The run design looks largely the same. Maybe a few more moving parts with the TEs and pulling guards than last year. Which would be normal in year two of a ZBS.

The X receiver does a few things different than last year because it's a new player.

Slot and Z receivers are doing the same stuff as 2022. Move TE is mostly doing the same stuff with an added wrinkle or two and more targets.

The scheme is the same, the playbook was expounded upon but definitely not changed.

Lots of the same situational calling with a few minor differences mixed in at times - nothing consistently different
We pass more to convert on 3rd/4th and short because the run game is so bad - but we didi that a lot last year too
nothing new there

We still struggle to protect
We still struggle in the red zone
We got worse at running the ball - that's the only real difference - and it sure looks like ETN getting blown up in the backfield is the culprit there - I guess Press Taylor should stop calling the runs that are designed to allow defensive tackles free reign of the backfield

If you watch the games... You can tell it looks different.  I don't know what to tell ya.

Showing Trevor Lawrence stats doesn't change the fact that this offense isn't run like it was last year.  Yeah, Lawrence is a great QB.  Based on your Logic, the O-Line isn't that bad because Lawrence is actually having a better year in terms of QBR, completion %, and yards per attempt!!!

It's not about how great Lawrence is.  That's another thread.  It's about how this offense looks, how this offense plays this year compared to last year.  Yeah, the OLine sucks.  The OLine isn't the only problem here.  And to ignore the fact that the offensive scheming, the runs up the middle, the fact that we're completely vanilla in terms of play calling is not helping the O-Line.  

Defenses know that we are running up the middle on first downs.  Defenses know that on passing downs we are getting the ball out quick so they all are sitting on routes not respecting deep routes.  That makes everything harder on everyone.  Defensive lines are pinning their ears back knowing what's coming.

Hell, we rarely even motion.  It's a regression on offense.  Showing Lawrence stats just shows how great he is inspite of the terrible game planning, play calling, and execution.

By the way, execution is not just on players.  Coaches should be emphasizing it.  We hear about lack of execution every week in press conferences.  And yet nothing changes...  Last year we saw the team improve from the start of the season to the end.  Including the O-Line, and we were nicked up last year too.  This year it looks like we're not getting any better, and honestly, it looks like we're regressing.

Yeah, injuries has something to do with it.  But every team has injuries.  That's not an excuse.

The bills have lost tons of players.  Look how well they are coming on at the end of the year.  I refuse to give excuses to the coaching staff.

EDIT:  By the way...  We didn't struggle in the red zone last year after the bye!  Remember??  We got better in the red zone last year.  By late November we were deadly in the Red Zone last year.  Again, looks different this year compared to what we were after the London game last year.  We got better.  We executed better.  We had great plays in the red zone dialed up last year.  This year, we went backwards and we haven't improved.  I mean, it's just obvious if you watch the games.  Stats aren't going to explain the entire picture.  But if you are watching and are being objective, you can see something is off.  And no, it's not all because of the O-Line.

It's weird how everyone can see that you're wrong and yet you continue to dig in further. Just accept that the entire offense is dysfunctional because they don't have the horses this year and you'll be in a much better place. Why did we quit with the pre snap motion? Go back and watch those plays and who was motioning and you'll understand. You can say "it's not and excuse" all you want, but it's a reason. We've regressed on offense because they cannot block and it's been that way since the preseason. How many damn times does TLaw have to get blasted and injured or ETN get swallowed up in the backfield for you to accept it? Nah, if we fire Press Taylor suddenly our Center will take off his roller skates and all will be well. Lol, myopic nonsense.

(12-19-2023, 09:23 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Consistency beats intensity. This team lacks consistency. While we can point the finger at this specific group or this specific coach? The reality is that, until this team finds consistency? It's going to keep getting beat senselessly.

I can call the perfect play out there 9 times out of 10 and it means nothing if guys are not consistently doing their jobs good enough to see those play calls executed properly. Lawrence has to be more consistent, the line has to be more consistent, the running game has to be more consistent, the discipline has to be more consistent, the defense needs to be more consistent.

You have to find the right players for that first. We simply don't have them and it shows up consistently against the consistently good football teams in this league. It is what it is.

Vic would be so proud....you just dropped FULL CONSISTENCY into the thread!

The talking heads on the NFL network were talking about the Jags and saying we're a team that does more to defeat ourselves than opposing teams. Yup. They also said this team lacks an identity and seem to be floundering for some direction, although they did compliment the defense.

Leon Searcy on the radio today talking about the rushed goal line attempt to score at the end of the first half against the Ravens. I didn't hear who he was quoting from the Ravens squad, but he said they knew what play we were running before the ball was even snapped. Why? Because we ran the same play against them last year.

Geez, floundering and predictable. Not a good combination for an offense and a bad look for the coaching staff.

(12-19-2023, 06:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The talking heads on the NFL network were talking about the Jags and saying we're a team that does more to defeat ourselves than opposing teams. Yup. They also said this team lacks an identity and seem to be floundering for some direction, although they did compliment the defense.

Leon Searcy on the radio today talking about the rushed goal line attempt to score at the end of the first half against the Ravens. I didn't hear who he was quoting from the Ravens squad, but he said they knew what play we were running before the ball was even snapped. Why? Because we ran the same play against them last year.

Geez, floundering and predictable. Not a good combination for an offense and a bad look for the coaching staff.

This /\ /\ /\
I'm an  amateur and even I can predict what we're going to do
Can only imagine what the pros that play us can do

(12-19-2023, 06:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The talking heads on the NFL network were talking about the Jags and saying we're a team that does more to defeat ourselves than opposing teams. Yup. They also said this team lacks an identity and seem to be floundering for some direction, although they did compliment the defense.

Leon Searcy on the radio today talking about the rushed goal line attempt to score at the end of the first half against the Ravens. I didn't hear who he was quoting from the Ravens squad, but he said they knew what play we were running before the ball was even snapped. Why? Because we ran the same play against them last year.

Geez, floundering and predictable. Not a good combination for an offense and a bad look for the coaching staff.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but it all comes from being unable to run the ball.  Because we have such a weak running attack, the opposing defense knows we have to pass, so they send the pass rush, and since they know Trevor has to get the ball out quickly or else get clobbered, then they cover tight, because they have no fear of us trying a deep pass.  All they have to do is cover the checkdowns, and cover everyone else tight, and it's amazing we manage to move the ball in those situations.  

The fault lies in our offensive line, specifically the middle of the offensive line, specifically the center.  If we could replace Luke Fortner with Jason Kelce, all these problems would go away.  How many times do we have 2nd and 12?  How many times do we run successfully on 3rd and 1?  In the Ravens game, other than Trevor, who ran for 41 yards, we had a grand total of 34 yards rushing.  It's not play calling, and it's not Trevor.  It's the offensive line.  If we fix that, we fix everything.  

Yes, Trevor makes mistakes, but it's because he's trying to play hero-ball, because without a running game, it's all on him.  And yes, we look predictable, but without a running attack, we run out of options quickly.

(12-19-2023, 06:14 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-19-2023, 06:03 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]The talking heads on the NFL network were talking about the Jags and saying we're a team that does more to defeat ourselves than opposing teams. Yup. They also said this team lacks an identity and seem to be floundering for some direction, although they did compliment the defense.

Leon Searcy on the radio today talking about the rushed goal line attempt to score at the end of the first half against the Ravens. I didn't hear who he was quoting from the Ravens squad, but he said they knew what play we were running before the ball was even snapped. Why? Because we ran the same play against them last year.

Geez, floundering and predictable. Not a good combination for an offense and a bad look for the coaching staff.

This /\ /\ /\
I'm an  amateur and even I can predict what we're going to do
Can only imagine what the pros that play us can do

If you watch any offense enough you can predict a lot of situational calls. 
Every coach has a philosophy in each situation - and they will make themselves  apparent over time. 

The offense is incapable of executing the plays called too often whether they are predicted or not.

A few weeks ago our three top receiving targets all ranked in the upper 25% of the league in separation. 
From what I've watched, i'd wager that still holds true. 
So they are getting well open on these supposedly predictable plays. 

The problem lies in the execution. 

The run game comes down to the line much more than x's and o's

---

I've seen at least three offensive coordinators, get completely roasted by this fan base for every little thing, picked apart six ways from Sunday, cursed over and over again on these message boards as incompetent idiots -- and then two years later they're in the playoffs and winning games/ calling plays for another team.

Attacking the play caller is an easy thing to do, and an even easier thing to get wrong.