Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(01-17-2024, 11:28 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a post I made in 3-2022:

cland Wrote:I mentioned the following in another thread: Hopefully Pederson can iron that out, and I think he has to be a success with the Jaguars.  My concern with Pederson is that he has to turn Lawrence into a Nick Foles type of QB.  A guy that can run his offense, but becomes very readable after a season or a few games for the NFL defenses.

Thought I would expand on the above, with a reference to the ?Tedford Factor.  Jeff Tedford QBs in college were taught a system that limited their ability to read the defense across the whole field post-snap, narrowing or eliminating their window to find open off-script receivers.  In college the QB system worked great, getting 5 Tedford QBs selected highly in the NFL draft, only to find that their ability to read the field in an NFL offense were lacking.  

This was my concern in the previous post, and something I thought was relevant to the Jags (having traded for Nick Foles.)  If Pederson has to continually simplify the offense to fit Trevor Lawrence's skill set (or lack there of) he may get some increases in production, but for a short time.  NFL defenses will be able to solve the pre-read play calling.  I would say that in the NFL off-script plays are a necessity, which is why QBs like Mahomes and Josh Allen are so successful.

The above post was made in terms of Trevor's inability to read the field if his first option is covered, and I think the bolded point can be applied to the playcalling debate.  If a play-call has the first option open, then Trevor certainly has all the talents to deliver the ball.  But if the defense covers the first option and you have a QB that can't progress through the remaining options quickly then your offense will be much more readable.

Having an OL that can't provide enough time certainly doesn't help matters, but elite QBs can pick up a defense via motion/line-up/and game tape to reorder the option list and shorten the pocket time needed.  Some of the best plays have a man/zone/blitz-beater built in, but it only works if your QB and WRs reads and execution are all on the same page.

"here's something I said this one time that only applies to maybe 10% of the pass plays Trevor misses on" 

Trevor's tape is chock full of plays where he looks off safeties, calls audibles to counter blitzes, alerts receivers of options when manned up, and makes multiple reads.

You can also find plenty of stuff designed to go to a primary target where he plays hero ball with coverage instead of checking down quickly enough - if at all. He can get better there. He needs to get better there and year 3 would have been the perfect time for him to do so. He still struggles with it a bit but it isn't some overarching hindrance to his play or to the Jags offense.

Give the kid another 1/4 second to process reads behind a line he can actually trust so he doesn't speed up the internal clock - and this conversation goes away completely.

Not to mention Trevor's 13.3 yards per attempt in play action. What if they had a line that let them run that more than 40 times on the season? 

The only simplification that needs to happen in this offense lies within the run scheme.

"Trevor is dumb" will soon be the new "Press Taylor sucks", an illogical position absent any actual evidence.

(01-17-2024, 11:28 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a post I made in 3-2022:

cland Wrote:I mentioned the following in another thread: Hopefully Pederson can iron that out, and I think he has to be a success with the Jaguars.  My concern with Pederson is that he has to turn Lawrence into a Nick Foles type of QB.  A guy that can run his offense, but becomes very readable after a season or a few games for the NFL defenses.

Thought I would expand on the above, with a reference to the ?Tedford Factor.  Jeff Tedford QBs in college were taught a system that limited their ability to read the defense across the whole field post-snap, narrowing or eliminating their window to find open off-script receivers.  In college the QB system worked great, getting 5 Tedford QBs selected highly in the NFL draft, only to find that their ability to read the field in an NFL offense were lacking.  

This was my concern in the previous post, and something I thought was relevant to the Jags (having traded for Nick Foles.)  If Pederson has to continually simplify the offense to fit Trevor Lawrence's skill set (or lack there of) he may get some increases in production, but for a short time.  NFL defenses will be able to solve the pre-read play calling.  I would say that in the NFL off-script plays are a necessity, which is why QBs like Mahomes and Josh Allen are so successful.

The above post was made in terms of Trevor's inability to read the field if his first option is covered, and I think the bolded point can be applied to the playcalling debate.  If a play-call has the first option open, then Trevor certainly has all the talents to deliver the ball.  But if the defense covers the first option and you have a QB that can't progress through the remaining options quickly then your offense will be much more readable.

Having an OL that can't provide enough time certainly doesn't help matters, but elite QBs can pick up a defense via motion/line-up/and game tape to reorder the option list and shorten the pocket time needed.  Some of the best plays have a man/zone/blitz-beater built in, but it only works if your QB and WRs reads and execution are all on the same page.

Finally someone that has a brain and can tell the difference.

You sir need to post more.

(01-17-2024, 07:24 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-17-2024, 11:28 AM)cland Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a post I made in 3-2022:


The above post was made in terms of Trevor's inability to read the field if his first option is covered, and I think the bolded point can be applied to the playcalling debate.  If a play-call has the first option open, then Trevor certainly has all the talents to deliver the ball.  But if the defense covers the first option and you have a QB that can't progress through the remaining options quickly then your offense will be much more readable.

Having an OL that can't provide enough time certainly doesn't help matters, but elite QBs can pick up a defense via motion/line-up/and game tape to reorder the option list and shorten the pocket time needed.  Some of the best plays have a man/zone/blitz-beater built in, but it only works if your QB and WRs reads and execution are all on the same page.

Finally someone that has a brain and can tell the difference.

You sir need to post more.

Ah that's cute.. You found a friend to join you on the short bus.

(01-17-2024, 07:36 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-17-2024, 07:24 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]Finally someone that has a brain and can tell the difference.

You sir need to post more.

Ah that's cute.. You found a friend to join you on the short bus.

It's impossible to underestimate you

(01-17-2024, 08:31 PM)Shad Khans Mustache Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-17-2024, 07:36 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Ah that's cute.. You found a friend to join you on the short bus.

It's impossible to underestimate you

Ouch.....

(01-17-2024, 12:58 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"Trevor is dumb" will soon be the new "Press Taylor sucks", an illogical position absent any actual evidence.

Well, you know how fads come and go....

You know I hear hair is twice the size inside the head as outside.

This is beginning to pick up more traction now. Between Dilla's tweet, and now, Breer reporting on it and other local Jaguars related writers. If it bleeds, it leads.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gen...63e98&ei=9

(01-19-2024, 08:53 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is beginning to pick up more traction now. Between Dilla's tweet, and now, Breer reporting on it and other local Jaguars related writers. If it bleeds, it leads.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gen...63e98&ei=9

When you say, "This is beginning to pick up more traction now," what do you mean by "this?"

(01-19-2024, 09:19 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 08:53 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is beginning to pick up more traction now. Between Dilla's tweet, and now, Breer reporting on it and other local Jaguars related writers. If it bleeds, it leads.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/gen...63e98&ei=9

When you say, "This is beginning to pick up more traction now," what do you mean by "this?"

That there's been a leak of growing concerns in the front office linked to Baalke not happy with Pederson's decisions to turn over play calling duties offensively to Press Taylor. Between Dilla's tweet, Albert Breer's report last night or the night prior, a Jaguarwire's or Big Cat Country article highlighting this, there's something to it. 

We all know of Pederson's willingness to lose his job for his coaching staff. Especially on offense with Press Taylor. Laurie ran him out of town for this willingness, because, much like the concerns here, there's a tendency to pin the blame on the offenses' failures on the new guy calling the plays. 

I don't have a dog in this fight really. Well, I say that, but, if I had to list the primary issues on offense that I saw last year? It would be:

1. Offensive line strength
2. Lack of running game
3. Dropped passes on offense
4. Turnovers
5. 4th down gambling decisions
6. Some play call choices

The fact that I can pinpoint 5 issues before I even begin to complain or get nit picky about the play calling, especially for a first time play caller, it makes me think he's not the issue, nor is Lawrence. I think the issue is personnel and weaknesses and that's a combination of Baalke's decision making and scouting department along with Pederson and his staff signing off on some of these subtractions and additions to the offense personnel wise. 

So, it'll be interesting to see if anything comes out of it. There was even another odd rumor going around last night, that, apparently, we're interviewing Keenan McCardell for the OC job. Which would mean Baalke may have won this fight or perceived issue. Not REALLY buying that completely, again, the source was Dilla via tweeting. So, we'll see.

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https://twitter.com/E_Dilla/status/17481...I3SdA&s=19

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https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...BwBfQ&s=19

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I guess a lot of times when teams don't have the success that everyone expected, people start casting about for reasons and in some cases, pointing fingers at each other. 

I think it's much ado about nothing.  They need to fix the offensive line.  Pederson and Baalke need to get together and come up with a plan to fix the offensive line.  If they do that, everything will be fine and the team will move forward.  All this talk about a power struggle is probably BS, but if I was Shad Khan, I would tell those guys, "I want to meet with both of you in a week and the both of you will present me with the plan the two of you have agreed on for the coming year."  I'd have Tony in the meeting, too.

It doesn't have to be detailed; just the broad outlines of a plan that makes sense to Shad Khan and then they can refine it from there.  

And I'd tell them, "Both you guys are expendable and I'm not going to have any backstabbing or power struggle around here.  I am the power.  If you two cannot get along, I'm not going to waste my time figuring out who's right and who's wrong.  I'll fire both of you.  Now go back to your offices and bring me a plan in a week."

(01-19-2024, 10:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I guess a lot of times when teams don't have the success that everyone expected, people start casting about for reasons and in some cases, pointing fingers at each other.

I think it's much ado about nothing. They need to fix the offensive line. Pederson and Baalke need to get together and come up with a plan to fix the offensive line. If they do that, everything will be fine and the team will move forward. All this talk about a power struggle is probably BS, but if I was Shad Khan, I would tell those guys, "I want to meet with both of you in a week and the both of you will present me with the plan the two of you have agreed on for the coming year." I'd have Tony in the meeting, too.

Agreed. This is similar to what I have been saying around here and on here below:

https://twitter.com/ItsIanDee/status/174...VeXLQ&s=19

The challenge is Khan and his son. I know they own the team, however, they really should consider finding a mediator between this coaching staff and front office. I don't question Khan's commitment to football, winning and this team. I just question if he has the chops to keep pace consistently in the football arena to yield great results. He was close to getting on the right track with Coughlin in 2017.

I think the PR nightmare may have turned him off thanks to the NFLPA telling players to stay away from playing here, but, that doesn't mean you should abandon that idea completely. Just because it was a partial failure doesn't mean you should shy away from adding a big name with a lot of weight to his or even her name if they have had a track record of success and been around competent coaching staff's and team builders.

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(01-19-2024, 10:03 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 10:00 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I guess a lot of times when teams don't have the success that everyone expected, people start casting about for reasons and in some cases, pointing fingers at each other. 

I think it's much ado about nothing.  They need to fix the offensive line.  Pederson and Baalke need to get together and come up with a plan to fix the offensive line.  If they do that, everything will be fine and the team will move forward.  All this talk about a power struggle is probably BS, but if I was Shad Khan, I would tell those guys, "I want to meet with both of you in a week and the both of you will present me with the plan the two of you have agreed on for the coming year."  I'd have Tony in the meeting, too.

Agreed. This is similar to what I have been saying around here and on here below:

https://twitter.com/ItsIanDee/status/174...VeXLQ&s=19

The challenge is Khan and his son. I know they own the team, however, they really should consider finding a mediator between this coaching staff and front office. I don't question Khan's commitment to football, winning and this team. I just question if he has the chops to keep pace consistently in the football arena to yield great results. He was close to getting on the right track with Coughlin in 2017.

I think the PR nightmare may have turned him off thanks to the NFLPA telling players to stay away from playing here, but, that doesn't mean you should abandon that idea completely. Just because it was a partial failure doesn't mean you should shy away from adding a big name with a lot of weight to his or even her name if they have had a track record of success and been around competent coaching staff's and team builders.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I managed people for many years, and one thing I learned is, you can't put up with bull [BLEEP] power struggles and crap like that.  I'd tell them, "You are both expendable.  If there's any sort of power struggle around here, you're both fired."

(01-19-2024, 10:08 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 10:03 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. This is similar to what I have been saying around here and on here below:

https://twitter.com/ItsIanDee/status/174...VeXLQ&s=19

The challenge is Khan and his son. I know they own the team, however, they really should consider finding a mediator between this coaching staff and front office. I don't question Khan's commitment to football, winning and this team. I just question if he has the chops to keep pace consistently in the football arena to yield great results. He was close to getting on the right track with Coughlin in 2017.

I think the PR nightmare may have turned him off thanks to the NFLPA telling players to stay away from playing here, but, that doesn't mean you should abandon that idea completely. Just because it was a partial failure doesn't mean you should shy away from adding a big name with a lot of weight to his or even her name if they have had a track record of success and been around competent coaching staff's and team builders.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I managed people for many years, and one thing I learned is, you can't put up with bull [BLEEP] power struggles and crap like that.  I'd tell them, "You are both expendable.  If there's any sort of power struggle around here, you're both fired."

Agreed.

Meh

Breers "report" smacks desperately of flimsy rumor to me.

Oher people "reporting" on a one liner from the rumor mill don't give it any more weight.

I don't know where Trent and Doug are regarding the Jags offense and how to improve it. But if they indeed are in a disagreement about the offense - I hope it is because Trent is telling Doug he's not going to keep giving him underweight athletic linemen who get their [BLEEP] handed to them 30 times a game.

(01-19-2024, 10:45 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Meh

Breers "report" smacks desperately of flimsy rumor to me.

Oher people "reporting" on a one liner from the rumor mill don't give it any more weight.

I don't know where Trent and Doug are regarding the Jags offense and how to improve it. But if they indeed are in a disagreement about the offense - I hope it is because Trent is telling Doug he's not going to keep giving him underweight athletic linemen who get their [BLEEP] handed to them 30 times a game.

Yeah. This off season is going to be dreadfully telling on a few levels. My absolute fear is they do the bare minimum to bolster the glaring issue we saw week in and week out. That'll be the biggest indicator of a clear disconnect from ownership all the way down throughout the franchise. March and April cannot get here fast enough for me personally.

(01-19-2024, 10:09 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 10:08 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I managed people for many years, and one thing I learned is, you can't put up with bull [BLEEP] power struggles and crap like that.  I'd tell them, "You are both expendable.  If there's any sort of power struggle around here, you're both fired."

Agreed.

I could see that if both people were of equal value to the organization. I think Doug Pederson is head and shoulders above Baalke in that regard though, so I'm the "If you're going to be GM your job is only to get Doug what he tells you he wants" owner.

(01-19-2024, 11:04 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 10:45 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Meh

Breers "report" smacks desperately of flimsy rumor to me.

Oher people "reporting" on a one liner from the rumor mill don't give it any more weight.

I don't know where Trent and Doug are regarding the Jags offense and how to improve it. But if they indeed are in a disagreement about the offense - I hope it is because Trent is telling Doug he's not going to keep giving him underweight athletic linemen who get their [BLEEP] handed to them 30 times a game.

Yeah. This off season is going to be dreadfully telling on a few levels. My absolute fear is they do the bare minimum to bolster the glaring issue we saw week in and week out. That'll be the biggest indicator of a clear disconnect from ownership all the way down throughout the franchise. March and April cannot get here fast enough for me personally.

I'm just not buying all of the assumptions that there even is a disconnect. 

For all we know, Trent and Doug could have already looked each other in the eye and agreed to prioritize a fix for half of the things we all complain about. 

A Boston based SI reporter tweeting a rumor that the front office is evaluating the offense after it took a small step backward - is like saying "Doug Pederson woke up this morning and put on his pants."

It's Trent's job to go through everything,  evaluate it, then fix it if required. 

Even though Press Taylor ended up doing almost exactly what Doug did in 2022 regarding play calls, if Trent Baalke has a strong opinion about it - it's his job to detail that. Personally I think the tweet is probably total bull [BLEEP] from Breer.  

My only fear for this offense is that Trent/Doug stay on the same course with OL and run scheme. 
I don't care if Doug calls it, Press calls it, Trent loves Press, Trent hates Press, Doug is too loyal, whatever.
Don't care. 

Just fix the damn line with some grown [BLEEP] football players.

(01-19-2024, 11:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 11:04 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. This off season is going to be dreadfully telling on a few levels. My absolute fear is they do the bare minimum to bolster the glaring issue we saw week in and week out. That'll be the biggest indicator of a clear disconnect from ownership all the way down throughout the franchise. March and April cannot get here fast enough for me personally.

I'm just not buying all of the assumptions that there even is a disconnect. 

For all we know, Trent and Doug could have already looked each other in the eye and agreed to prioritize a fix for half of the things we all complain about. 

A Boston based SI reporter tweeting a rumor that the front office is evaluating the offense after it took a small step backward - is like saying "Doug Pederson woke up this morning and put on his pants."

It's Trent's job to go through everything,  evaluate it, then fix it if required. 

Even though Press Taylor ended up doing almost exactly what Doug did in 2022 regarding play calls, if Trent Baalke has a strong opinion about it - it's his job to detail that. Personally I think the tweet is probably total bull [BLEEP] from Breer.  

My only fear for this offense is that Trent/Doug stay on the same course with OL and run scheme. 
I don't care if Doug calls it, Press calls it, Trent loves Press, Trent hates Press, Doug is too loyal, whatever.
Don't care. 

Just fix the damn line with some grown [BLEEP] football players.

And therein lies the problem. Yes it’s a simple concept that will solve a lot. But I don’t trust Baalke to properly evaluate a high school varsity squad. He can draft 7 lineman in April and 6 of them will bust.

(01-19-2024, 11:43 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-19-2024, 11:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just not buying all of the assumptions that there even is a disconnect. 

For all we know, Trent and Doug could have already looked each other in the eye and agreed to prioritize a fix for half of the things we all complain about. 

A Boston based SI reporter tweeting a rumor that the front office is evaluating the offense after it took a small step backward - is like saying "Doug Pederson woke up this morning and put on his pants."

It's Trent's job to go through everything,  evaluate it, then fix it if required. 

Even though Press Taylor ended up doing almost exactly what Doug did in 2022 regarding play calls, if Trent Baalke has a strong opinion about it - it's his job to detail that. Personally I think the tweet is probably total bull [BLEEP] from Breer.  

My only fear for this offense is that Trent/Doug stay on the same course with OL and run scheme. 
I don't care if Doug calls it, Press calls it, Trent loves Press, Trent hates Press, Doug is too loyal, whatever.
Don't care. 

Just fix the damn line with some grown [BLEEP] football players.

And therein lies the problem. Yes it’s a simple concept that will solve a lot. But I don’t trust Baalke to properly evaluate a high school varsity squad. He can draft 7 lineman in April and 6 of them will bust.

So you aren't an Anton Harrison fan I assume?