(12-18-2023, 07:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]This is what I think. I think the one weakness on this team that leads to all of our problems is our offensive line cannot run block. If they could run block better, we could restore balance to our offense and we wouldn't have to put the entire offense on Trevor's shoulders. As a result of not having a better running attack, Trevor has to try to do too much, and therefore, sprinkled in among some great plays are some really bad ones. But it all comes down to the offensive line not being able to run block.
Our QB is fine. We can roll with him for 10 more years. But without a decent running attack, we will continue to have these frustrations.
Stop it, don't you know Carp8 said our line is better than most? Everything is bad because Press Taylor doesn't hit the truck stick enough.
Press Taylor calls plays he has to call. He has no choice. If you can't run the ball, the opposing defense can ignore the run and rush the passer. That means Trevor has no time to get the ball down field. He has to do one read and get rid of it. But at that point the problem is, since the opposing defense knows he has to get rid of the ball, they cover tight, and no one is open. They aren't scared of us going down field, because they know we won't have time to do that. Not being able to run block causes a cascading series of problems on offense.
Press Taylor isn't the problem. Sure, he makes mistakes like anyone else. But he is forced to call these plays because he KNOWS we can't run block.
(12-18-2023, 09:14 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Stop it, don't you know Carp8 said our line is better than most? Everything is bad because Press Taylor doesn't hit the truck stick enough.
Press Taylor calls plays he has to call. He has no choice. If you can't run the ball, the opposing defense can ignore the run and rush the passer. That means Trevor has no time to get the ball down field. He has to do one read and get rid of it. But at that point the problem is, since the opposing defense knows he has to get rid of the ball, they cover tight, and no one is open. They aren't scared of us going down field, because they know we won't have time to do that. Not being able to run block causes a cascading series of problems on offense.
Press Taylor isn't the problem. Sure, he makes mistakes like anyone else. But he is forced to call these plays because he KNOWS we can't run block.
Welcome to the NFL, where the opponent figures out what you can't do and forces you to do it.
6 trips inside the 40 and 3 trips inside the 20 led to zero points…. But let’s go and blame Press/Doug.
Last night's loss was a product of stupid mistakes, bad passes from the QB, and a one dimensional offense.
As stated. We can't run the ball behind that line.
Folks apparently expect some sort of miracle from the OC to overcome all of that.
Well - I don't know if "folks" feel this way - but at least one very confused and stubborn poster around here.
(12-18-2023, 09:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]6 trips inside the 40 and 3 trips inside the 20 led to zero points…. But let’s go and blame Press/Doug.
Before last night the team was 9th in the League in PPG, imagine how good they would be if they could actually block for the QB. But yeah, the play caller is the problem.
(12-18-2023, 09:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 09:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]6 trips inside the 40 and 3 trips inside the 20 led to zero points…. But let’s go and blame Press/Doug.
Before last night the team was 9th in the League in PPG, imagine how good they would be if they could actually block for the QB. But yeah, the play caller is the problem.
Baalke is the problem for drafting Fortner, not finding his replacement this past offseason, and for not adding a vet guard, like Cleveland, before the season started. He's very arrogant and stubborn and drags everyone down with him.
(12-18-2023, 09:57 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 09:43 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Before last night the team was 9th in the League in PPG, imagine how good they would be if they could actually block for the QB. But yeah, the play caller is the problem.
Baalke is the problem for drafting Fortner, not finding his replacement this past offseason, and for not adding a vet guard, like Cleveland, before the season started. He's very arrogant and stubborn and drags everyone down with him.
I thought the Fortner pick was solid when he made it, the guy just hasn't developed for whatever reason. Going into this season with the band of miscreants called "Guards" that we had should be a fireable offense though. You have to do everything to protect the franchise, and Bartch/Shatley/Little duking it out to start just isn't anything close.
(12-18-2023, 09:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 09:57 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Baalke is the problem for drafting Fortner, not finding his replacement this past offseason, and for not adding a vet guard, like Cleveland, before the season started. He's very arrogant and stubborn and drags everyone down with him.
I thought the Fortner pick was solid when he made it, the guy just hasn't developed for whatever reason. Going into this season with the band of miscreants called "Guards" that we had should be a fireable offense though. You have to do everything to protect the franchise, and Bartch/Shatley/Little duking it out to start just isn't anything close.
I think, because of the premium teams put on certain positions, if we are drafting in the last half of the first round, we should get our pick of the non-premium positions, including guard and center.
Almost getting a delay of game every snap isn’t helping. Get the play call in much faster consistently. Running it on every first down when it’s been very difficult to get any push isn’t helping. You have to be unpredictable when your line is struggling with run blocking. Continuous, Ultra short passes that get stuffed for hardly any yards isn’t helping.
(12-18-2023, 10:42 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 09:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I thought the Fortner pick was solid when he made it, the guy just hasn't developed for whatever reason. Going into this season with the band of miscreants called "Guards" that we had should be a fireable offense though. You have to do everything to protect the franchise, and Bartch/Shatley/Little duking it out to start just isn't anything close.
I think, because of the premium teams put on certain positions, if we are drafting in the last half of the first round, we should get our pick of the non-premium positions, including guard and center.
Yeah, I hope so. But we also have plenty of guys around the League who are really good that come from the mid and late rounds too. We just don't take them because...well, I don't really know why.
(12-17-2023, 11:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't the same team we saw last year.
Certain Mods have insulted me. But I've been proven correct.
This is a trash offense. And it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
We just watched this entire team absolutely dominate the Ravens for an entire half. And yet this OC's play calling was atrocious. Pederson is a SB winning coach. But if he's going to continue to let Press Taylor run the offense then get rid of both of them.
There are younger, more hungry coaches that are better attuned to how an NFL offense should work.
This offense looks like Gabbert and Bortles under the center. This is a trash offense. Don't tell me otherwise. It's clear after ever game.
The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.
I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?
I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.
(12-18-2023, 12:09 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We have a great QB, we have a good RB. We have decent WRs. Our O-Line is better than most, not as great as others. And yet we can't do jack squat but look like fools.
We are predictable. We don't do anything dynamic. Our offense looks just like it did under Gus Bradley, Mike Mularkey, Doug Marrone, and Urban Meyer....
We supposedly have a franchise QB and yet we use him like he's David Garrard, Blaine Gabbert, and Blake Bortles...
1st read QB that throws quick or runs out... There is nothing new here. It's trash offense that I've seen since 2008. And no, it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.
(12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2023, 11:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't the same team we saw last year.
Certain Mods have insulted me. But I've been proven correct.
This is a trash offense. And it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
We just watched this entire team absolutely dominate the Ravens for an entire half. And yet this OC's play calling was atrocious. Pederson is a SB winning coach. But if he's going to continue to let Press Taylor run the offense then get rid of both of them.
There are younger, more hungry coaches that are better attuned to how an NFL offense should work.
This offense looks like Gabbert and Bortles under the center. This is a trash offense. Don't tell me otherwise. It's clear after ever game.
The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.
I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?
I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.
(12-18-2023, 12:09 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We have a great QB, we have a good RB. We have decent WRs. Our O-Line is better than most, not as great as others. And yet we can't do jack squat but look like fools.
We are predictable. We don't do anything dynamic. Our offense looks just like it did under Gus Bradley, Mike Mularkey, Doug Marrone, and Urban Meyer....
We supposedly have a franchise QB and yet we use him like he's David Garrard, Blaine Gabbert, and Blake Bortles...
1st read QB that throws quick or runs out... There is nothing new here. It's trash offense that I've seen since 2008. And no, it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.
Aside from the Jags having literally the worst run blocking line in the league and probably the 28th - 30th pass pro OL - which ruins every other attempt at a point being made - he's still really confused.
(12-18-2023, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]This is what I think. I think the one weakness on this team that leads to all of our problems is our offensive line cannot run block. If they could run block better, we could restore balance to our offense and we wouldn't have to put the entire offense on Trevor's shoulders. As a result of not having a better running attack, Trevor has to try to do too much, and therefore, sprinkled in among some great plays are some really bad ones. But it all comes down to the offensive line not being able to run block.
Our QB is fine. We can roll with him for 10 more years. But without a decent running attack, we will continue to have these frustrations.
correct. We gotta figure out who we are.
If we are run first, game manager ball, Trevor can do that; just darft a run-heavy line that will steamroll a defense.
If we are gonna be all finesse, speed for days and all vertical passing, Trevor can do that, just darft a wall of meat capable of holding their block for multiple seconds.
If we are gonna run sideline to sideline and wonder how it suddenly became 3rd and 8, well, just keep on keepin on.
(12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2023, 11:44 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't the same team we saw last year.
Certain Mods have insulted me. But I've been proven correct.
This is a trash offense. And it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
We just watched this entire team absolutely dominate the Ravens for an entire half. And yet this OC's play calling was atrocious. Pederson is a SB winning coach. But if he's going to continue to let Press Taylor run the offense then get rid of both of them.
There are younger, more hungry coaches that are better attuned to how an NFL offense should work.
This offense looks like Gabbert and Bortles under the center. This is a trash offense. Don't tell me otherwise. It's clear after ever game.
The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.
I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?
I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.
(12-18-2023, 12:09 AM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]We have a great QB, we have a good RB. We have decent WRs. Our O-Line is better than most, not as great as others. And yet we can't do jack squat but look like fools.
We are predictable. We don't do anything dynamic. Our offense looks just like it did under Gus Bradley, Mike Mularkey, Doug Marrone, and Urban Meyer....
We supposedly have a franchise QB and yet we use him like he's David Garrard, Blaine Gabbert, and Blake Bortles...
1st read QB that throws quick or runs out... There is nothing new here. It's trash offense that I've seen since 2008. And no, it's not the O-Line that is the problem.
In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.
Being better than 4 teams isn't better than most.
(12-18-2023, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]This is what I think. I think the one weakness on this team that leads to all of our problems is our offensive line cannot run block. If they could run block better, we could restore balance to our offense and we wouldn't have to put the entire offense on Trevor's shoulders. As a result of not having a better running attack, Trevor has to try to do too much, and therefore, sprinkled in among some great plays are some really bad ones. But it all comes down to the offensive line not being able to run block.
Our QB is fine. We can roll with him for 10 more years. But without a decent running attack, we will continue to have these frustrations.
correct. We gotta figure out who we are.
If we are run first, game manager ball, Trevor can do that; just darft a run-heavy line that will steamroll a defense.
If we are gonna be all finesse, speed for days and all vertical passing, Trevor can do that, just darft a wall of meat capable of holding their block for multiple seconds.
If we are gonna run sideline to sideline and wonder how it suddenly became 3rd and 8, well, just keep on keepin on.
Pederson knows who we are, he just doesn't have the horses yet to run it. We have to hope that Baalks can get it done this offseason. If we go into next year with Little, Cleveland, New Center, Scherff and Harrison I think we can compete for the trophy. If we dump Scherff then we need to invest in a starting caliber guard early in the draft. Then after that we need to upgrade Shatley, Hance, and CVL in the mid-rounds.
(12-18-2023, 11:03 AM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.
I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?
I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.
In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.
Being better than 4 teams isn't better than most.
You and your logic.
(12-18-2023, 11:01 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 07:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]This is what I think. I think the one weakness on this team that leads to all of our problems is our offensive line cannot run block. If they could run block better, we could restore balance to our offense and we wouldn't have to put the entire offense on Trevor's shoulders. As a result of not having a better running attack, Trevor has to try to do too much, and therefore, sprinkled in among some great plays are some really bad ones. But it all comes down to the offensive line not being able to run block.
Our QB is fine. We can roll with him for 10 more years. But without a decent running attack, we will continue to have these frustrations.
correct. We gotta figure out who we are.
If we are run first, game manager ball, Trevor can do that; just darft a run-heavy line that will steamroll a defense.
If we are gonna be all finesse, speed for days and all vertical passing, Trevor can do that, just darft a wall of meat capable of holding their block for multiple seconds.
If we are gonna run sideline to sideline and wonder how it suddenly became 3rd and 8, well, just keep on keepin on.
Pederson has always been a pass to run and mesh concept guy - and horizontal passing and short of the sticks stuff is part of the deal.
The quick hits - tunnel screens, slip screens and short mesh throws are extensions of the run game, or in our case, replacements for a dysfunctional run game.
Until we acquire a line that can let our backs find a gap to "make one cut and go" as our run scheme is designed, we are stuck using a ton of those horizontal/short of the sticks passes. And frankly - we're gonna see that stuff a fair amount when the run game IS working too.
It's what Doug does.
(12-18-2023, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 10:52 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]The playcalling was what was helping the team move. Everything was fast-play, one look and throw type stuff to keep the heat out of the backfield. They even said as much during the game. They knew that Ballimer's pass rush is the polar opposite of ours; Trevor wasn't going to be able to dance and slide around to allow 8-second plays to result in an open receiver; this pressure was going to require guys to immediately get open or get to the next down.
I don't like the calls, but without a line that is going to create gaps for an RB to get more than a half yard on first down or allow the QB to scan for an open receiver in 2-3 seconds, what possibly do you think we could be calling differently?
I hate the horizontal nature of our playbook; but we simply do not have the beef up front to command any other scheme.
In honor of finals week, we'll grade this a 75%.
Aside from the Jags having literally the worst run blocking line in the league and probably the 28th - 30th pass pro OL - which ruins every other attempt at a point being made - he's still really confused.
As bad as the OL is, they actually blocked well in the 1st quarter. Then there were bad play calls, falling into old habits of calling plays where they can't run, and checking to run plays when run blitzes were on.
Press isn't the only problem but he is what has changed. He isn't getting the same results from the OL. You have to call plays the team can be successful with, not try to force things will all these plays that don't work.
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(12-18-2023, 12:23 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2023, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Aside from the Jags having literally the worst run blocking line in the league and probably the 28th - 30th pass pro OL - which ruins every other attempt at a point being made - he's still really confused.
As bad as the OL is, they actually blocked well in the 1st quarter. Then there were bad play calls, falling into old habits of calling plays where they can't run, and checking to run plays when run blitzes were on.
Press isn't the only problem but he is what has changed. He isn't getting the same results from the OL. You have to call plays the team can be successful with, not try to force things will all these plays that don't work.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
So they abandoned the run in the second half, but you wanted them to give up on it even sooner?
OK
Press Taylor's calls got them
FIVE scoring opportunities (not counting the one TD scored) and they botched every single one of them - and none of the botches had a damn thing to do with play calling. It was all stupid mistakes and poor execution.
The stuffed runs on first down did not kill them. They overcame that and then quit doing it altogether.
It's one thing to be frustrated watching a horrible OL fail to spring a running back - but you need to recognize that calling those plays did not affect the outcome.
The inability to continue calling runs and impossibility to get 3 or 4 yards from them definitely made things harder though. And that - again - is not on Press.
Even the bad clock management to end the half can look toward the receiver failing to get out of bounds and a good play by the defense to prevent it. He caught the ball 2 yards from the sideline.
Man - I don't even like Press Taylor - but I keep having to defend the damn guy because ppl want to blame him for [BLEEP] that ain't his fault. LOL
This offense squandered 5 trips within scoring range.
If those 5 trips end up 3 FGs and 2 TDs we win 30-23.
That's bad execution.
False starts, bad throws, dropped balls, OL protection failures, and sloppy play in general. That's where the angst need be directed IMO. Even with a crap OL, they had a way to win and they [BLEEP] the bed.
(12-18-2023, 09:37 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Last night's loss was a product of stupid mistakes, bad passes from the QB, and a one dimensional offense.
As stated. We can't run the ball behind that line.
Folks apparently expect some sort of miracle from the OC to overcome all of that.
Well - I don't know if "folks" feel this way - but at least one very confused and stubborn poster around here.
Add the many "missed" holding calls on the ratbirds. Even my husband was commenting about it and he wasn't even paying full attention to the game. Those missed calls allowed the ratbird's defense to get away with murder and hindered us from being effective.
So many things need to be addressed and we're running out of time to make corrections.