(12-24-2023, 08:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:07 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, it was a reverse but in that moment it's just as "cute" of a play as a double reverse or any other gadget play.
That play is a staple of the Pederson offense, the Reid offense, and the Gibbs offense that it came from.
Absolutely and I'm not refuting that in any way.
My problem with that is where and when we called that play, such that the cons outweigh the pros to the point where we lost out on potential points there.
And yes, the problem on any given play can be derived from both execution AND playcalling. But the coaches should know better than that in such a scenario.
(12-24-2023, 08:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:07 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, it was a reverse but in that moment it's just as "cute" of a play as a double reverse or any other gadget play.
Exactly. It’s not the plays that are called but the moments in the game when they are called.
Yep, that's why I created this thread.
In most of our games, there's usually a couple times where our coaching staff exhibits a total lack of situational awareness which causes a bit of concern.
(12-24-2023, 08:16 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That play is a staple of the Pederson offense, the Reid offense, and the Gibbs offense that it came from.
Absolutely and I'm not refuting that in any way.
My problem with that is where and when we called that play, such that the cons outweigh the pros to the point where we lost out on potential points there.
And yes, the problem on any given play can be derived from both execution AND playcalling. But the coaches should know better than that in such a scenario.
The entire problem with this team right now, as it's been since the preseason, is that they have a line of players who cannot run block. So they try to manufacture rushing yards with the bottom half of the playbook because absolutely none of the basic plays in the first half can work. The team is entirely one dimensional and every defense they play knows it. It's a fatal flaw for this year and we've achieved about all we can with this group for the season.
(12-24-2023, 08:20 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:12 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. It’s not the plays that are called but the moments in the game when they are called.
Yep, that's why I created this thread.
In most of our games, there's usually a couple times where our coaching staff exhibits a total lack of situational awareness which causes a bit of concern.
When you understand that this coach is going to be aggressive in every situation you'll understand why you don't grasp what they are doing.
(12-24-2023, 08:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Press ain’t got bars
What the [BLEEP] does that even mean?
(12-24-2023, 08:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:16 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Absolutely and I'm not refuting that in any way.
My problem with that is where and when we called that play, such that the cons outweigh the pros to the point where we lost out on potential points there.
And yes, the problem on any given play can be derived from both execution AND playcalling. But the coaches should know better than that in such a scenario.
The entire problem with this team right now, as it's been since the preseason, is that they have a line of players who cannot run block. So they try to manufacture rushing yards with the bottom half of the playbook because absolutely none of the basic plays in the first half can work. The team is entirely one dimensional and every defense they play knows it. It's a fatal flaw for this year and we've achieved about all we can with this group for the season.
(12-24-2023, 08:20 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, that's why I created this thread.
In most of our games, there's usually a couple times where our coaching staff exhibits a total lack of situational awareness which causes a bit of concern.
When you understand that this coach is going to be aggressive in every situation you'll understand why you don't grasp what they are doing.
Agree with you on the first point.
With regards to point #2, I'm fully aware that this coaching staff is going to be ultra-aggressive as they have shown since taking up the reigns of this franchise. And that's where my issue partly lies with them, there are times where we are way too aggressive for our own good and it comes back to bite us later in the game. I get that the narrative would be different if we convert on those playcalls - but my main issue is something like what we witnessed today with that reverse play.
I don't think it's an "aggressive" play call per se, I just think that play was not the right call to make there period given how the game was playing out. Like you said in your first point, I think that reverse was more so a matter of the coaches trying to manufacture a semblance of a run play there but a reverse on 2nd and long right on the fringe of scoring territory didn't make sense to me.
But that's just me explaining my thoughts viewing the play as it occurred as a Jaguars fan and not a coach on the sidelines I guess.
(12-24-2023, 08:33 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The entire problem with this team right now, as it's been since the preseason, is that they have a line of players who cannot run block. So they try to manufacture rushing yards with the bottom half of the playbook because absolutely none of the basic plays in the first half can work. The team is entirely one dimensional and every defense they play knows it. It's a fatal flaw for this year and we've achieved about all we can with this group for the season.
When you understand that this coach is going to be aggressive in every situation you'll understand why you don't grasp what they are doing.
Agree with you on the first point.
With regards to point #2, I'm fully aware that this coaching staff is going to be ultra-aggressive as they have shown since taking up the reigns of this franchise. And that's where my issue partly lies with them, there are times where we are way too aggressive for our own good and it comes back to bite us later in the game. I get that the narrative would be different if we convert on those playcalls - but my main issue is something like what we witnessed today with that reverse play.
I don't think it's an "aggressive" play call per se, I just think that play was not the right call to make there period given how the game was playing out. Like you said in your first point, I think that reverse was more so a matter of the coaches trying to manufacture a semblance of a run play there but a reverse on 2nd and long right on the fringe of scoring territory didn't make sense to me.
But that's just me explaining my thoughts viewing the play as it occurred as a Jaguars fan and not a coach on the sidelines I guess.
I see both sides, and I'd really rather we could just line up and grind out 6 or 7 yards by handing the ball to ETN. But we just can't, so I get them pulling manufacturing plays like that one to make up for it. If they don't fix this in the offseason we'll have wasted Trevor's entire rookie contract.
(12-24-2023, 08:38 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:33 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with you on the first point.
With regards to point #2, I'm fully aware that this coaching staff is going to be ultra-aggressive as they have shown since taking up the reigns of this franchise. And that's where my issue partly lies with them, there are times where we are way too aggressive for our own good and it comes back to bite us later in the game. I get that the narrative would be different if we convert on those playcalls - but my main issue is something like what we witnessed today with that reverse play.
I don't think it's an "aggressive" play call per se, I just think that play was not the right call to make there period given how the game was playing out. Like you said in your first point, I think that reverse was more so a matter of the coaches trying to manufacture a semblance of a run play there but a reverse on 2nd and long right on the fringe of scoring territory didn't make sense to me.
But that's just me explaining my thoughts viewing the play as it occurred as a Jaguars fan and not a coach on the sidelines I guess.
I see both sides, and I'd really rather we could just line up and grind out 6 or 7 yards by handing the ball to ETN. But we just can't, so I get them pulling manufacturing plays like that one to make up for it. If they don't fix this in the offseason we'll have wasted Trevor's entire rookie contract.
You, me, Trevor and the rest of the Jags organization and fans would too.
That's my fear as this season is on the tail end of things. In addition to that, Trevor is accruing all types of injuries now which will only exacerbate the issues we have further - and he's as tough as they get where he will continue playing through the pain but the last thing we all want is for him to go out there and take a real shot that would put an end to his season - and effectively our franchise as well.
It's imperative we shore up the offensive line completely and also focus on the defensive front as well. The blueprint for success is out there with some of the teams like the 49ers who built their team from both of their lines first and foremost.
(12-24-2023, 08:16 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 08:10 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That play is a staple of the Pederson offense, the Reid offense, and the Gibbs offense that it came from.
Absolutely and I'm not refuting that in any way.
My problem with that is where and when we called that play, such that the cons outweigh the pros to the point where we lost out on potential points there.
And yes, the problem on any given play can be derived from both execution AND playcalling. But the coaches should know better than that in such a scenario.
When your offense only gets:
6 carries for 12 yards out of it's primary RB? You get cute I guess.
It's tough man. Really is. The offensive line is that bad. It's so bad now that they try to literally run away from it or around it and teams are ready for it.
This team has an uphill battle every week and it's now turning into a downward spiral because of attrition setting in.
There's nothing they can do about it this deep into the season. I was in this same camp a month ago and I gave up on it.
I saw a glimpse of hope in the win on the road against the tinhorns. A glimpse. They were using twin and triple TE sets, using 13 personnel run and quick passing plays and then that got dialed back with injuries to Strange and Kirk.
We have few alternatives short of trying wildcat here and there and that's even been negative most of the time.
Until this front office goes all in at the table with the offensive line and defensive line? This will be the end result against above average to elite rosters in the NFL. Period.
Doug said it last week, they're not good enough to beat these good teams in the NFL. That's on the front office and scouting department and that's also on your coaching staff for not preaching even more ball security with Lawrence.
I really feel like we have a Buffalo Bills Jr. style football team here at the moment. Just with fewer talent and less cohesion. I think there needs to be a change somewhere along the entire staff.
Coaching staff needs to be shaken up. Personnel department needs to be shaken up. This team didn't grow or improve upon last year. It stunted it's own growth by settling for "just barely lucky enough" from last year's campaign instead of pushing harder in the off season and challenging themselves to be "more than enough" to press their luck further this year.
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(12-24-2023, 08:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Press ain’t got bars
Just a trash offense. Yeah, the O-Line is bad.
But this offense can't seem to figure out how to handle a 4th down without a delay of game. This offense can't figure out how to best use Engram. This offense can't figure out how to get ETN open in space.
You watch other teams that can't run the ball figure out how to get plays from the RBs. But this Offensive play calling is so out of touch with reality it looks like we're a Mike Mularkey lead offense.
It's just terrible.
People want to just blame the O-Line. It's not just the O-Line. Press Taylor is trash. And honestly, I'm beginning to question Doug Pederson as well.
I don't like the playcalling but aesthetically I've always disliked it. I prefer physical teams that run the ball and throw it down the field. I don't like finesse offenses that focus on short quick passes and play horizontally.
But I don't think people can just dismiss the terrible oline play. Pff had us rated as worst run blocking going into this weekend. Im sure it's even worse now. No matter what offense you run, if you are that one dimensional then defenses can tee off on you. And it'd be one thing if the pass blocking was above average,but they aren't good at that either. Bottom third in the league. A terrible oline limits everything you do.
The real question is how did they regress so much?
(12-24-2023, 10:38 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 10:31 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]John Shipley shared this:
https://www.nj.com/eagles/2021/01/if-eag...pport.html
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It honestly feels like history is going to repeat itself with Doug.
Yep, if results don't matter to him and he thinks Press is the best play caller that he can bring to the table he needs to go imo
(12-24-2023, 10:46 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2023, 10:38 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]It honestly feels like history is going to repeat itself with Doug.
Yep, if results don't matter to him and he thinks Press is the best play caller that he can bring to the table he needs to go imo
100%. I like Doug and I want to keep him, but not if it means that Press Taylor continues to call plays. I don't even want him as OC anymore because I know at some point Doug will want to give him play calling duties again.
Im 100% Press has dirty laundry of Doug somewhere. There's no way a SB winning coach thinks Press is the right guy for this team.
Do we actually know it's press all the way.... meaning it's 100% him with the play calling.... if so it's something that needs to change and should have been weeks ago....but on the other hand as some have pointed out there's only so much you can do when you're injured and have zero running game....down wide receivers....OL sucks....and the OL not being addressed is solely on management Blake for one.....Blake needs to go and so does press.... more so Blake because he's the reason we have no depth....press has to deal with what he has....but I feel like if it was Peterson was solely calling play's it would be a lot better
(12-24-2023, 11:52 PM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]Do we actually know it's press all the way.... meaning it's 100% him with the play calling.... if so it's something that needs to change and should have been weeks ago....but on the other hand as some have pointed out there's only so much you can do when you're injured and have zero running game....down wide receivers....OL sucks....and the OL not being addressed is solely on management Blake for one.....Blake needs to go and so does press.... more so Blake because he's the reason we have no depth....press has to deal with what he has....but I feel like if it was Peterson was solely calling play's it would be a lot better
We got rid of Blake years ago. But we definitely need to get rid of Baalke.
Whether it's Press 100% calling the plays or not doesn't matter. But for Doug's sake, I hope it is 100% Press right now.
I feel like a lot of the criticism's he has for philly's offense scheme and playcalling apply to the Jags as well.
Not that the Jags is running a high school offense. But it is too little motion, too much shotgun, predictable run styles and plays, etc. Sure of this is due to injuries/poor personnel play (looking at Fortner), but this is a major issue that is multiplying it.
https://youtu.be/skI1CN5BB7g?si=WkVePWbimJ6kUXv3