(03-19-2024, 08:18 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2024, 06:20 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Why draft a receiver? We don’t draft good receivers, never have… And again, Baalke, that dude is a wild card, he will fall in love with some linebacker and draft him at 1
No, you get the guy that can play number one receiver, he’s a very good player, hustling, moving, great route runner, gets open… oh, and actually can catch the damn ball…
And maybe we can throw a tarp joke in while we're digging up old tropes. Maybe a tired line about ACLs?
How did KC do with a bunch of young, unproven receivers this last season? They didn't seem to miss Hill too much, from what I saw.
Take care of the cap. Why you think SFO is willing to part with the guy, if #1 receivers are so valuable to an offense?
(03-18-2024, 06:24 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah this is my confusion with some people on this board. They say Baalke sucks and will screw up the pick at 17 but also don't think we should trade pick 17 for a proven player and should stay put.
Which first rounder has he whiffed on? Or are you(or everyone else) confusing him with Caldwell?
What are you even on about? Did you actually read my post? I clearly said "some people" not "I think".
(03-19-2024, 07:24 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2024, 10:48 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Baalkie always hits on the first round picks. Anyone that says different has not been paying attention or has another agenda.
ETN- he’s good but shouldn’t get a second contract
Great googly-moogly, gimme your guys number
(03-16-2024, 03:10 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (03-16-2024, 02:52 PM)Marcos25067 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'm also in the opinion that we should draft OL/DL in the first two rounds; but this FA class put us in a better spot in the sense that we don't NEED to draft a specific position in round 1, we can sit and wait to draft the BAP.
I would also be ok with trading back in the first round
EDIT: also, a couple of guys that we signed was a captain in their teams, we still building that locker room, I loved that.
Yep. Trading down wouldn't hurt my feelings neither. Could still address OL/DL towards the bottom of RD1 and in a deep WR and CB class would could also add an upgrade or two.
Best case would be getting somebody like Darius Robinson or Graham Barton in RD1 after a trade down and then double dipping in RD2 depending on the trade deal. Could probably get a WR like Xavier Leggett, Keon Coleman or Troy Franklin and a CB like T.J Tampa or Khyree Jackson.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kool-Aid McKinstry slips a bit. Think he has to have surgery or something like that. Depending on time timeline, maybe you take a chance on him and try and work him back into the line-up mid season.
(03-16-2024, 03:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'd love to get DeJean honestly. Dude could play anywhere on D for us. You have to have 3 corners and he can play inside or out
Has Iowa had their Pro-Day yet?
DeJean to workout for teams April 15th
Cooper DeJean attends Iowa football Pro Day while nearing recovery from injury | SiouxlandProud | Sioux City, IA | News, Weather, and Sports
(03-19-2024, 10:19 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2024, 08:07 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]That deal likely means you can't afford Trevor or Josh, or you have to start gutting the rest of the roster. You still make that deal?
Maybe Devin has a faster, cheaper twin brother.
The Eagles traded for AJ Brown, signed him to a big contract and then the very next summer signed Hurts to a big contract.
Trents biggest issue is that he can't draft which means they don't get the luxury of having really good players on rookie deals. I would have done that trade for Aiyuk because I think he's exactly what Trevor needs and he's only 25. Ridley will be 30 but Aiyuk would be someone Trevor can continue to grow with (Allen/Diggs Hurts/AJB Burrow/Chase)
is it?
or
was it?
The reason we're having this discussion is because we have a number of guys worthy of second deals. There's a good chance we can land a good receiver prospect in this draft. Sadly, he won't be 25. Even worse, he won't take up an abundance of our (unavailable) cap room. If this draft were crap for WR, I'd be all for the big swing. Lamb went at 17 in his draft. Jefferson at 22. Deebo went at 36, Aiyuk at 25. Higgins at 33.
Those are some of the top young receivers today, and they all prove you don't have to pick in the top 5 to get a franchise guy, nor do you need to spend 100 million trying to acquire one.
(03-19-2024, 11:02 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2024, 10:25 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]Problem is you can't keep everybody. Allen would probably have to walk, or you don't re-sign Walker. Can't have 7-8 guys making 25+ mil/yr then sign a QB to a 50 mil/yr deal. The rest of the team will be draft picks and UDFAs.
You need to be savvy.
The Eagles currently have Reddick at 21 million, Lane Johnson at 16, Hurts 14, AJB at 13 and Slay at 11. Those are their 5 biggest cap hits for 2024 per Spotrac.
The Chiefs have Mahomes at 37, Thuney at 27 (probably restructure), Taylor at 25, Sneed at 19 (the tag), Kelce at 15. However, they are drafting very well with Creed, Karlaftis, McDuffie, Rice, and Trey Smith playing on rookie contracts.
Keep your stars and draft well. Something the Jags have historically never done.
Where's CJones in the chefs' mix? He may be cheap THIS season, but those 30 and 40 million hits in the next few years are gonna start whittling away at those middling cap hits. Which is exactly the point - sure you can sign Aiyuk today and make this year dirt cheap, but in a year or two that cap room is necessary for much more important moves. How much better would it be to have a comparable WR around 7M per than the same caliber eating up 25-30?
(03-20-2024, 08:05 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (03-19-2024, 10:19 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The Eagles traded for AJ Brown, signed him to a big contract and then the very next summer signed Hurts to a big contract.
Trents biggest issue is that he can't draft which means they don't get the luxury of having really good players on rookie deals. I would have done that trade for Aiyuk because I think he's exactly what Trevor needs and he's only 25. Ridley will be 30 but Aiyuk would be someone Trevor can continue to grow with (Allen/Diggs Hurts/AJB Burrow/Chase)
is it?
or was it?
The reason we're having this discussion is because we have a number of guys worthy of second deals. There's a good chance we can land a good receiver prospect in this draft. Sadly, he won't be 25. Even worse, he won't take up an abundance of our (unavailable) cap room. If this draft were crap for WR, I'd be all for the big swing. Lamb went at 17 in his draft. Jefferson at 22. Deebo went at 36, Aiyuk at 25. Higgins at 33.
Those are some of the top young receivers today, and they all prove you don't have to pick in the top 5 to get a franchise guy, nor do you need to spend 100 million trying to acquire one.
(03-19-2024, 11:02 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You need to be savvy.
The Eagles currently have Reddick at 21 million, Lane Johnson at 16, Hurts 14, AJB at 13 and Slay at 11. Those are their 5 biggest cap hits for 2024 per Spotrac.
The Chiefs have Mahomes at 37, Thuney at 27 (probably restructure), Taylor at 25, Sneed at 19 (the tag), Kelce at 15. However, they are drafting very well with Creed, Karlaftis, McDuffie, Rice, and Trey Smith playing on rookie contracts.
Keep your stars and draft well. Something the Jags have historically never done.
Where's CJones in the chefs' mix? He may be cheap THIS season, but those 30 and 40 million hits in the next few years are gonna start whittling away at those middling cap hits. Which is exactly the point - sure you can sign Aiyuk today and make this year dirt cheap, but in a year or two that cap room is necessary for much more important moves. How much better would it be to have a comparable WR around 7M per than the same caliber eating up 25-30?
I totally understand all that. You can certainly find great receivers throughout the draft but my main point (and I'll likely lay off this point for a while) is that I don't trust Baalke to make the correct moves in the draft. He has continually made the wrong choices (in my opinion) when it comes to building this roster through the draft. We aren't having this discussion because he's having trouble signing his young talent because he doesn't have many players that fit that. It's Josh Allen and then who? You worried the Jags won't be able to sign studs such as Chad Muma, Snoop Conner, Jay Tufele, Jordan Smith....
Even players like Tyson Campbell, Cisco, Devin Lloyd and ETN are iffy for second contracts with this team. I get that you can find very good WRs all throughout the draft. Puka was in round 5 last year. ARSB went in round 4 in 2021. My issue is that I don't think Baalke can do that since he has an extremely poor draft record when it comes to WRs as well as rounds 2-7.
And my last point here is that this all revolves around Trevor. Do you feel like the Jags have built a roster that will not only protect him but give him the weapons to truly flourish? My fear is that this turns into an Andrew Luck situation or he gets traded like Stafford. We are hoping that by just signing Mitch Morse, the entire offensive line improves so much that they can actually run the ball effectively (it might) and protects him long enough that play action can actually work (it might). Then, when play action does work, we are hoping Zay Jones and Gabe Davis are getting open. I have no worries about Kirk. He's the man.
I want this team to succeed. I want every single move that Baalke has done to work because I want to see playoff wins and an eventual Super Bowl. I just have my doubts.
The jags can absolutely get a great wr at 17 if Balkie chooses so.
(03-20-2024, 10:03 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]The jags can absolutely get a great wr at 17iif Balkie chooses so.
I think we should take best available player at a premium position. But if we select for need, I think it ought to be CB.
(03-20-2024, 10:12 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2024, 10:03 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]The jags can absolutely get a great wr at 17iif Balkie chooses so.
I think we should take best available player at a premium position. But if we select for need, I think it ought to be CB.
It feels like the common consensus now is that they'll lean towards CB. Most places have Arnold out of Alabama and Mitchell out of Toledo mocked to us at 17.
The other side of the fence has it being either Brian Thomas Jr. or Adonai Mitchell at WR. I wouldn't mind any of those four players at this point. As they offer immediate upgrades to the roster.
Adonai has some qualities to him that I like. In fact, if you go back and look at the Texas Vs. Alabama game, Adonai had an impressive showing against Arnold (He had him whooped deep, Arnold had to tug inside his shoulder pads while chasing behind him) and also got after McKinstry in that same game.
Thomas Jr. I think just has everything you want in a quality, outside caliber WR1. Size, speed, hands, footwork, etc. He has it. Scoring 17 TD's in the SEC is nothing to sneeze at. That doesn't come easy and his highlights indicate NFL quality ball tracking and toe tapping in the endzone.
It really boils down to how comfortable Baalke and the staff feel I guess. If they feel Campbell, Darby and some of last years players that were drafted or from the previous year like Braswell and Brown can step in? Also, with Savage now at S it allows them to move Antonio Johnson down and into the slot role, something he did well in college, they may feel good about going WR or elsewhere there instead of CB.
All i want is a Wide Receiver on Draft Day. I know we are mocked a CB but we will need a CB 2 or slot, and we still need a WR1. Go for the WR1 so that we can have a solid true 1 for the next 4 years minimum and get Linemen and 1 or 2 dbs, rounds 2 thru 7.
(03-20-2024, 10:03 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]The jags can absolutely get a great wr at 17iif Balkie chooses so.
Many prospects don't reach the draft prognosticators' expectations. Sure, the draft publications will laud a team for picking a player who meets a need and award them an "A" after the draft. The team's owner might even feel good about it, too. But it's meaningless. I'm not sold on Odunze, Mitchell, or Thomas being can't miss prospects. They all have knocks against them. GMs should only select a particular player if they have strong convictions about him.
The prognosticators urge GMs to move up to take a QB among the "five" QB prospects deemed 1st round worthy. Any will do -- just pick one. But typically only 2/5 will actually be starters five years later. It's much the same with any position group. McCarthy, Nix, and Penix each have red flags. Even Maye and Daniels aren't sure things.
Needs based drafting dooms teams who cave in to the need to pick the "need." It got Dave Caldwell fired. He "needed" a CB and an edge rusher to replace the ones lost. So, he picked players with consensus 1st round grades. His scouting was obviously off. He probably would have had better luck picking higher-rated players whose positions aren't as strong a need.
(03-20-2024, 10:38 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]All i want is a Wide Receiver on Draft Day. I know we are mocked a CB but we will need a CB 2 or slot, and we still need a WR1. Go for the WR1 so that we can have a solid true 1 for the next 4 years minimum and get Linemen and 1 or 2 dbs, rounds 2 thru 7.
I agree. I think the defense will be good with what we have. On the other hand, the jags should really consider giving Lawrence his cheat code “safety blanket” type wr to grow with.
(03-18-2024, 10:48 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Baalkie always hits on the first round picks. Anyone that says different has not been paying attention or has another agenda.
Really?
2011 - 7 - Aldon Smith LB Missouri
2012 - 30 - A. J. Jenkins WR Illinois
2013 - 18 - Eric Reid S LSU Moved up draft order in trade with Dallas Cowboys[AN]
2014 - 30 - Jimmie Ward S Northern Illinois
2015 - 17 - Arik Armstead DE Oregon Moved down draft order in trade with San Diego Chargers[AO]
(03-20-2024, 11:13 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2024, 10:58 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/AustinAbbottFF/statu...Jzuag&s=19
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I really love Baker. He would be a great addition.
Yeah. He's fun to watch highlights wise. Really good sideline work and body control. Makes a lot of adjustments for the football. Could see him being a great fit here for sure.
My fear is that, what if they have Adonai Mitchell and Brian Thomas Jr. BOTH on the board at 17, who do you take then? What if we land the next Jalen Reagor while passing up on the next Justin Jefferson?
That doesn't mean I think Mitchell is Reagor or Thomas Jr. is Reagor. I just have that underlying sense of dread because it's Baalke picking a position he rarely strikes gold at early.
Can't be afraid of past mistakes. Make the pick you think is right. Everyone misses. Gotta hit to cover up the misses.
(03-20-2024, 12:36 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (03-18-2024, 10:48 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Baalkie always hits on the first round picks. Anyone that says different has not been paying attention or has another agenda.
Really?
2011 - 7 - Aldon Smith LB Missouri
2012 - 30 - A. J. Jenkins WR Illinois
2013 - 18 - Eric Reid S LSU Moved up draft order in trade with Dallas Cowboys[AN]
2014 - 30 - Jimmie Ward S Northern Illinois
2015 - 17 - Arik Armstead DE Oregon Moved down draft order in trade with San Diego Chargers[AO]
I have already written in a previous post I do not care what he did in SF. You can hold him accountable if you wish. My opinions are formed based on what I see here. My reasons for this is none of us really know how that organization was run. Different owners and coaches. How involved were the owners and coahes in those selections? Did that contribute to the issues that occurred there? How many were just him alone? What he has done here in the first round has been fine with me and a pretty significant improvement over our past GM's. It is your prerogative to have a different opinion, I just do not share that opinion obviously. By the way in case you have not heard everyone seems to be excited we now have Arik Armstead
(03-20-2024, 10:12 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (03-20-2024, 10:03 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]The jags can absolutely get a great wr at 17iif Balkie chooses so.
I think we should take best available player at a premium position. But if we select for need, I think it ought to be CB.
That's where I stand, also. The premium positions, in my mind, would be pass rusher, cornerback and wide receiver (don't need q.b. or left tackle). The way this draft class looks, the following players would be options- if available:
Pass rushers Verse and Latu
Cornerbacks Mitchell and Arnold
Receiver Brian Thomas
I'd most likely go cornerback in round 1, because I'm not so sure you could get a very good one in round 2. On the other hand, there will no doubt be at least one very good receiver available in the 2nd round. McConkey, Legette, Franklin, Coleman and Pearsall might end up being as good as Thomas. I'm not down on Thomas, but he isn't a sure thing due to questions about his route running and being a one year wonder playing with a great q.b. and another great receiver opposite him.