(03-08-2024, 12:39 PM)cland Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 11:49 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I think that a vet center solves a world of trouble for this team, even with the intention to keep Sherff. I just want some new blood in the pipeline so we don't have to spend big FA dollars on both guard and center in another year.
Here's what doesn't make sense: Baalke says, "We’ve got to get bigger, we’ve got to get stronger, we’ve got to get more physical in the trenches. If you want to compete for championships, you have to do that. I think we’ve got some good pieces in there, we have some good young players in there, BUT we have to get better."
How do you do that if you're bringing back 4 out of 5 OL starters (assuming they replace Fortner)? Is rookie JPJ going to transform the entire line into a dominant run and pass-protecting line? Is there a reasonably priced all-pro center out there that accomplishes the same?
What this really comes down to IMO, is that THIS is the season to give Trevor Lawrence every possible opportunity to "Show me the Money!", before giving him a market setting contract. And the way to do that is to give him more time in the pocket and a strong run game. Now maybe I'm wrong and this is all part of that effort, sign what you got, sign top of the market OL FAs, and use the first 3 draft picks on OLmen...but I tend to doubt it.
2023 Fortner was that bad. That's what these two signings to date are telling us the team thinks and I don't disagree. If they trot out Fortner as starting C again this year, the stadium better be filled with signs that read "Do you even lift, bro?".
The 2 biggest issues on this oline were LG and C by far. We didn't see a healthy Cleveland last year so hopefully he will be fully healthy and can play to the level before his injury. On top of that with a good good center ( and the there are a number of them in FA) this oline will be much improved.
Cleveland just feels too undersized to me
If we change our C I think all of us would breathe a huge sigh of relief
Maybe they want to keep the continuity of the 4 so that the change at C won’t be so significant with new G’s
So at this point best case scenario we are going to be one injury at center away from having the same starting oline as last year. Can't say I'm surprised as Pederson made every excuse in the book for the line last year. At this point I'd be more shocked if they actually replace Fortner then if they left him as the starter.
(03-08-2024, 02:26 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]So at this point best case scenario we are going to be one injury at center away from having the same starting oline as last year. Can't say I'm surprised as Pederson made every excuse in the book for the line last year. At this point I'd be more shocked if they actually replace Fortner then if they left him as the starter.
I think Pederson should be able to request certain types of players, but not specific players other than QB. If he pushed to draft Fortner and Strange, he should be banned from the war room in April.
(03-08-2024, 02:33 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 02:26 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]So at this point best case scenario we are going to be one injury at center away from having the same starting oline as last year. Can't say I'm surprised as Pederson made every excuse in the book for the line last year. At this point I'd be more shocked if they actually replace Fortner then if they left him as the starter.
I think Pederson should be able to request certain types of players, but not specific players other than QB. If he pushed to draft Fortner and Strange, he should be banned from the war room in April.
I think Fortner was Rauschers guy and Strange was Doug's guy. Baalke was letting his coaches get their guys because he took a lot of heat from people saying the opposite.
(03-08-2024, 02:26 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]So at this point best case scenario we are going to be one injury at center away from having the same starting oline as last year. Can't say I'm surprised as Pederson made every excuse in the book for the line last year. At this point I'd be more shocked if they actually replace Fortner then if they left him as the starter.
So there's no chance we sign additional linemen next week and draft more in April? It's just beyond the realm of possibility here on March 8, 2024 that they might add some players or that the aforementioned Tugboat might win a job in camp?
And which starting line are you referring to going back to? Which game in particular because we went through:
Little Bartch Fortner Sherff Harrison
Little Shatley Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Little Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Shatley Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Cleveland Fortner Sherff Harrison
Little Cleveland Fortner Sherff Harrison
We also had snaps given to Shatley at left and right tackle, Blake Hance (LT, RG, RT), and Cole Van Lanen (RT).
It was MASH unit over there resulting in the musical chairs, not just about the one weak link the middle, but resolving the center position will go a ways towards making all the rest look better. It's just kinda overdone to talk about all the things they aren't going to do today when we know Trent likes free agents.
Do we actually have the numbers yet for Scherff? Maybe he took a cheaper deal to lower his cap hit?
Trying to remain optimistic. In fairness, FA officially starts next week on Wednesday I believe. I think, there's some good signs to indicate they're looking to make some upgrades or improvements. They interviewed at least 12 offensive lineman at the combine. I would imagine that's not just for their health, (you get it, because our [BLEEP] box line can't stay healthy).
I still expect a serious signing at Center though. I cannot take them seriously if they refuse to challenge Fortner. If that legitimately happens, with him entering training camp completely uncontested? Listen to me, LISTEN TO ME.
Abandon all [BLEEP] hope fellas.... it's over... we're being led by a blind owner, a foolish coach and a prideful general manager. No bueno.
(03-08-2024, 04:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to remain optimistic. In fairness, FA officially starts next week on Wednesday I believe. I think, there's some good signs to indicate they're looking to make some upgrades or improvements. They interviewed at least 12 offensive lineman at the combine. I would imagine that's not just for their health, (you get it, because our [BLEEP] box line can't stay healthy).
I still expect a serious signing at Center though. I cannot take them seriously if they refuse to challenge Fortner. If that legitimately happens, with him entering training camp completely uncontested? Listen to me, LISTEN TO ME.
Abandon all [BLEEP] hope fellas.... it's over... we're being led by a blind owner, a foolish coach and a prideful general manager. No bueno.
I just wish Shad had someone else in the organization to talk to about football.
He relies on Baalke.
A good VP could solve all of this.
(03-08-2024, 03:16 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2024, 02:26 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]So at this point best case scenario we are going to be one injury at center away from having the same starting oline as last year. Can't say I'm surprised as Pederson made every excuse in the book for the line last year. At this point I'd be more shocked if they actually replace Fortner then if they left him as the starter.
So there's no chance we sign additional linemen next week and draft more in April? It's just beyond the realm of possibility here on March 8, 2024 that they might add some players or that the aforementioned Tugboat might win a job in camp?
And which starting line are you referring to going back to? Which game in particular because we went through:
Little Bartch Fortner Sherff Harrison
Little Shatley Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Little Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Shatley Fortner Sherff Harrison
Robinson Cleveland Fortner Sherff Harrison
Little Cleveland Fortner Sherff Harrison
We also had snaps given to Shatley at left and right tackle, Blake Hance (LT, RG, RT), and Cole Van Lanen (RT).
It was MASH unit over there resulting in the musical chairs, not just about the one weak link the middle, but resolving the center position will go a ways towards making all the rest look better. It's just kinda overdone to talk about all the things they aren't going to do today when we know Trent likes free agents.
Even when the best 5 were on the field they were a bottom tier oline, poor center play and injuries didnt cause that. As you pointed out our line was a MASH unit due to injuries and were bring back each one of the linemen that led to that problem and hoping they stay healthy this year. If you think they are going to sign anyone other than a career backup for the line at this point you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Infact them replacing Fortner at this point would be more of shock to me than him being the day one starter this year.
You're welcome to disagree but after the season everyone was sure the middle of the line was changing and here we are the weekend before free agency with 4 of the 5 linemen highly likely to be the same.
(03-08-2024, 04:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to remain optimistic. In fairness, FA officially starts next week on Wednesday I believe. I think, there's some good signs to indicate they're looking to make some upgrades or improvements. They interviewed at least 12 offensive lineman at the combine. I would imagine that's not just for their health, (you get it, because our [BLEEP] box line can't stay healthy).
I still expect a serious signing at Center though. I cannot take them seriously if they refuse to challenge Fortner. If that legitimately happens, with him entering training camp completely uncontested? Listen to me, LISTEN TO ME.
Abandon all [BLEEP] hope fellas.... it's over... we're being led by a blind owner, a foolish coach and a prideful general manager. No bueno.
Yeah
I mean - I get hoping "your guy" is gonna develop...
But -if they put #79 back out their in camp with no obvious competition - then this regime is basically just pissing away their window to get Trevor any where near his true potential and the wins that come with that.
Just inexcusable complacency with horrible lineman play if they do it like that.
My hope (at this bleak feeling moment) is a solid free agent signing at C/G plus another guard in the 3rd or 4th round of the draft to add depth/competition. Maybe they shock us all and go bigger than that on lineman acquisition, but they sure don't seem to be headed that way.
The Scherff thing is going to bite them in the [BLEEP] in the run game IMO. Especially if he lines up next to Fortner.
He can move around and pull and all that, but he isn't grinding out space for a RB on a 3rd and 1 conversion, ever. Ain't gonna happen. I'd much prefer a 330 pound road grader at RG who moves and pulls just well enough to execute the ZBS stuff than an athletic guy who can't ever move a DT 3 feet backward on a run snap.
Realistically - if they field a healthy lineup of
Robinson - Cleveland -NEW CENTER - Scherff - Harrison
... they will be better. But even that is a half measure, IMO.
Lloyd Cushenberry.
Sign him to a multi year deal, draft a guy that can play guard and possibly move to center with the second, or late 3rd round pick.
Sign Morse and draft Bortolini