(04-03-2024, 11:43 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jags don't need to be in some arms race of aging offensive weaponry.
They need to fix their lines.
Not a bad move by the tinhorns on paper, we'll see if it benefits them much in the long run.
This is 100% true.
But we do need to be in some sort of offensive arms race in the AFC. We have nice pieces but we definitely need some legitimate youth brought in. I wouldn't have traded for Diggs for the exact reasons stated here. Attitude, age, etc. But we do need to do SOMETHING (on top of the Davis signing) to replenish our skill positions for the foreseeable future. Which is why I hope we take a WR early in this deep draft.
(04-03-2024, 12:41 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 11:43 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jags don't need to be in some arms race of aging offensive weaponry.
They need to fix their lines.
Not a bad move by the tinhorns on paper, we'll see if it benefits them much in the long run.
This is 100% true.
But we do need to be in some sort of offensive arms race in the AFC. We have nice pieces but we definitely need some legitimate youth brought in. I wouldn't have traded for Diggs for the exact reasons stated here. Attitude, age, etc. But we do need to do SOMETHING (on top of the Davis signing) to replenish our skill positions for the foreseeable future. Which is why I hope we take a WR early in this deep draft.
We were a top ten offense in 2022 with a terrible line.
2024 could easily be a better product with a decent line, a more mature QB, and no additions to the receiving corps behind what we have in house.
I don't want to neglect building the roster at skill positions -- but the line is a greater priority to me right now.
I'm good with a receiver in any of the top three rounds for sustainability purposes - but I would NOT pass up on a blue chip OL or DL player to take one.
(04-03-2024, 12:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 12:41 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]This is 100% true.
But we do need to be in some sort of offensive arms race in the AFC. We have nice pieces but we definitely need some legitimate youth brought in. I wouldn't have traded for Diggs for the exact reasons stated here. Attitude, age, etc. But we do need to do SOMETHING (on top of the Davis signing) to replenish our skill positions for the foreseeable future. Which is why I hope we take a WR early in this deep draft.
We were a top ten offense in 2022 with a terrible line.
2024 could easily be a better product with a decent line, a more mature QB, and no additions to the receiving corps behind what we have in house.
I don't want to neglect building the roster at skill positions -- but the line is a greater priority to me right now.
I'm good with a receiver in any of the top three rounds for sustainability purposes - but I would NOT pass up on a blue chip OL or DL player to take one.
I don't think anyone is advocating for that but which blue chip OL or DL player will be there at 17? Maybe Fautanu?
Every single move the Jaguars make from here on out is going to be more difficult when you factor in paying Trevor and Josh Allen. This team and franchise just hasn't drafted well enough to have sustained success. They have had 3 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie deal and they have 1 playoff win. Texans have 1 year of Stroud and the same amount of playoff wins.
Right now. Who would you say has the better roster. Jags or Texans?
This move made me want to get Byron Murphy instead of BrIan.
C.J. Stroud with 3+ seconds to find someone, and the defense not being able to collapse his pocket...worries the heck out of me.
And for the record...Gabe Davis is more Duval material than Diggs. We got the better teammate and a darn good receiver.
(04-03-2024, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 12:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We were a top ten offense in 2022 with a terrible line.
2024 could easily be a better product with a decent line, a more mature QB, and no additions to the receiving corps behind what we have in house.
I don't want to neglect building the roster at skill positions -- but the line is a greater priority to me right now.
I'm good with a receiver in any of the top three rounds for sustainability purposes - but I would NOT pass up on a blue chip OL or DL player to take one.
I don't think anyone is advocating for that but which blue chip OL or DL player will be there at 17? Maybe Fautanu?
Every single move the Jaguars make from here on out is going to be more difficult when you factor in paying Trevor and Josh Allen. This team and franchise just hasn't drafted well enough to have sustained success. They have had 3 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie deal and they have 1 playoff win. Texans have 1 year of Stroud and the same amount of playoff wins.
Right now. Who would you say has the better roster. Jags or Texans?
Tinhorns are ahead of us, for now.
Blue Chip at 17 with the OL: Fautanu, Barton & Powers-Johnson.
Blue Chip at 17 with the DL: Latu, Verse, Murphy & Newton.
Graham Barton is being slept on. Think he's higher on most team's draft boards and his versatility and athletic ability makes him a day one starter anywhere you need him. I don't think Powers-Johnson is limited to Center as a rookie, he's strong enough and agile enough to play Guard as a rookie if needed.
Any of those defensive guys listed above adds an immediate presence and push in the pass rushing department and run defense department. The odds of one of those seven guys being available there is highly, highly likely.
Wouldn't rule out a trade down with Buffalo again this year as well. Swapping 17 for 28, 60 & a future pick wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if Buffalo absolutely feels compelled to move up to get a WR they know they won't likely get if they wait until 28. Could be for Adonai Mitchell or Brian Thomas Jr.
(04-03-2024, 12:41 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 11:43 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Jags don't need to be in some arms race of aging offensive weaponry.
They need to fix their lines.
Not a bad move by the tinhorns on paper, we'll see if it benefits them much in the long run.
This is 100% true.
But we do need to be in some sort of offensive arms race in the AFC. We have nice pieces but we definitely need some legitimate youth brought in. I wouldn't have traded for Diggs for the exact reasons stated here. Attitude, age, etc. But we do need to do SOMETHING (on top of the Davis signing) to replenish our skill positions for the foreseeable future. Which is why I hope we take a WR early in this deep draft.
I'd prefer a Javon Baker to be there at the end of the 3rd when he may not supposed to be there. Baker has very good to elite level shiftiness, patience, vision and decision making with the ball in his hands. His highlights had several instances of him allowing the defender to over pursue as he would cut to a different direction for a bunch of YAC. Or I'd be ok with taking Rice in the 4th. He looks better in highlights to me than what his NFL.com grade is. I just think the way the draft will likely fall position wise would serve us better to take something else in the 1st and 2nd rounds this year and wait on WR until the 3rd or one of our 4th round picks. I think there's a decent chance someone like Baker is there or someone else falls that isn't supposed to.
I'd be disappointed with Pearsall in the 2nd as many are mocking to us as I feel that where we currently pick would be over drafting him a bit for what my personal expectations are for his pro career. He may very well go before our 2nd round pick. I just think people are seeing that one handed circus catch he had and pumping him up a bit because of it. I think there is likely to be more value at the position for the draft capital spent at the end of the 3rd is all.
(04-03-2024, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 12:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We were a top ten offense in 2022 with a terrible line.
2024 could easily be a better product with a decent line, a more mature QB, and no additions to the receiving corps behind what we have in house.
I don't want to neglect building the roster at skill positions -- but the line is a greater priority to me right now.
I'm good with a receiver in any of the top three rounds for sustainability purposes - but I would NOT pass up on a blue chip OL or DL player to take one.
I don't think anyone is advocating for that but which blue chip OL or DL player will be there at 17? Maybe Fautanu?
Every single move the Jaguars make from here on out is going to be more difficult when you factor in paying Trevor and Josh Allen. This team and franchise just hasn't drafted well enough to have sustained success. They have had 3 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie deal and they have 1 playoff win. Texans have 1 year of Stroud and the same amount of playoff wins.
Right now. Who would you say has the better roster. Jags or Texans?
tinhorns have an edge on roster talent as things stand
More about their lines IMO. Both grade inside the top 15.
Jags outside the top twenty on both sides.
I'd still be looking to protect TL and open lanes for ETN before I trade up or reach for a receiver.
Greater immediate impact that way IMO.
(04-03-2024, 01:22 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone is advocating for that but which blue chip OL or DL player will be there at 17? Maybe Fautanu?
Every single move the Jaguars make from here on out is going to be more difficult when you factor in paying Trevor and Josh Allen. This team and franchise just hasn't drafted well enough to have sustained success. They have had 3 years of Trevor Lawrence on a rookie deal and they have 1 playoff win. Texans have 1 year of Stroud and the same amount of playoff wins.
Right now. Who would you say has the better roster. Jags or Texans?
Tinhorns are ahead of us, for now.
Blue Chip at 17 with the OL: Fautanu, Barton & Powers-Johnson.
Blue Chip at 17 with the DL: Latu, Verse, Murphy & Newton.
Graham Barton is being slept on. Think he's higher on most team's draft boards and his versatility and athletic ability makes him a day one starter anywhere you need him. I don't think Powers-Johnson is limited to Center as a rookie, he's strong enough and agile enough to play Guard as a rookie if needed.
Any of those defensive guys listed above adds an immediate presence and push in the pass rushing department and run defense department. The odds of one of those seven guys being available there is highly, highly likely.
Wouldn't rule out a trade down with Buffalo again this year as well. Swapping 17 for 28, 60 & a future pick wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if Buffalo absolutely feels compelled to move up to get a WR they know they won't likely get if they wait until 28. Could be for Adonai Mitchell or Brian Thomas Jr.
Maybe we have different definitions of "blue chip".
Those guys are certainly good prospects but to me, blue chip is the cream of the crop. A player that has all-pro potential. I'm not sure all the guys you listed are blue chip prospects but that's all good. It's also not just 17 for me. This team needs to hit on almost every pick in the first 4 rounds. Can't have a Brenton Strange, Tank Bigsby and Ventrell Miller in rounds 2-4.
(04-03-2024, 01:26 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 01:22 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Tinhorns are ahead of us, for now.
Blue Chip at 17 with the OL: Fautanu, Barton & Powers-Johnson.
Blue Chip at 17 with the DL: Latu, Verse, Murphy & Newton.
Graham Barton is being slept on. Think he's higher on most team's draft boards and his versatility and athletic ability makes him a day one starter anywhere you need him. I don't think Powers-Johnson is limited to Center as a rookie, he's strong enough and agile enough to play Guard as a rookie if needed.
Any of those defensive guys listed above adds an immediate presence and push in the pass rushing department and run defense department. The odds of one of those seven guys being available there is highly, highly likely.
Wouldn't rule out a trade down with Buffalo again this year as well. Swapping 17 for 28, 60 & a future pick wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if Buffalo absolutely feels compelled to move up to get a WR they know they won't likely get if they wait until 28. Could be for Adonai Mitchell or Brian Thomas Jr.
Maybe we have different definitions of "blue chip".
Those guys are certainly good prospects but to me, blue chip is the cream of the crop. A player that has all-pro potential. I'm not sure all the guys you listed are blue chip prospects but that's all good. It's also not just 17 for me. This team needs to hit on almost every pick in the first 4 rounds. Can't have a Brenton Strange, Tank Bigsby and Ventrell Miller in rounds 2-4.
I reckon so. All-Pro's are "can't miss" prospects in my opinion. Blue Chip players are guys that I look at that offer immediate impact, immediate pro-bowl potential and scheme versatility. Which all seven of those guys above to me fit that bill to a tee.
The biggest thing with Diggs for me is: Can the coaches control him?
We got to remember it's a young coach staff, they have to deal with spectations, what will happen when they lose 2 games in a row? How much will the texans offense have to change to fit Diggins in? How will the coaches deal with a situation like: They lost 2 games and Diggs is not happy about his targets?
I remember when Diggs finished a season Nº 1 in targets and still complained with Josh . But I still think this is a good bet for them...I just hope that it does not work out lol
Now about us, I'm happy with what we have, actually, I would like us to get one reciever in this draft, I'm happy with: Kirk, Zay, Parker, duvernay, Cooks, a WR from this draft. We got to remember we still have Engram and Etienne, Bigsby and Stange we are counting on big leaps this year, we need to fix the line! The rest will fall into place.
(04-03-2024, 02:17 PM)Marcos25067 Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest thing with Diggs for me is: Can the coaches control him?
We got to remember it's a young coach staff, they have to deal with spectations, what will happen when they lose 2 games in a row? How much will the texans offense have to change to fit Diggins in? How will the coaches deal with a situation like: They lost 2 games and Diggs is not happy about his targets?
I remember when Diggs finished a season Nº 1 in targets and still complained with Josh . But I still think this is a good bet for them...I just hope that it does not work out lol
Now about us, I'm happy with what we have, actually, I would like us to get one reciever in this draft, I'm happy with: Kirk, Zay, Parker, duvernay, Cooks, a WR from this draft. We got to remember we still have Engram and Etienne, Bigsby and Stange we are counting on big leaps this year, we need to fix the line! The rest will fall into place.
Diggs vanished in the post season, disappeared in the last 8 or so games of the regular season as well, with a top tier QB no less. My hope is he is washed, Texans blow a 2nd rounder and Stroud takes a step back. All a pipe dream, but a man can dream.
(04-03-2024, 11:51 AM)HardcoreMoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]And if this causes their window to close prematurely due to bad money on the books will anyone go back in time and reconsider their opinions? Again maybe this works out but with dell and Collins spending on wr for Houston seemed like us paying a big money linebacker this off-season.
Actually it's the opposite of
bad money,
Stefon Diggs's deal is part of the reason this is such a great trade for the Texans--the Bills are eating 31M in dead money this year. He's already signed through 2027, and only the 2024 salary is guaranteed. After that it's the teams option with 0 dead money. It's a pretty good return for next year's 2nd.
(04-03-2024, 11:46 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we will draft a wr at #17 to give t-law his #1 wr. Maybe
We need to give protection to T-Law first.
The Diggs trade is not that good IMO. 30 years old, headcase and inconsistent #2. Vikings and Bills were tired of this drama queen.
(04-03-2024, 03:01 PM)MikePete54 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 11:46 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we will draft a wr at #17 to give t-law his #1 wr. Maybe
We need to give protection to T-Law first.
The Diggs trade is not that good IMO. 30 years old, headcase and inconsistent #2. Vikings and Bills were tired of this drama queen.
Where will this potential lineman start?
(04-03-2024, 03:04 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 03:01 PM)MikePete54 Wrote: [ -> ]We need to give protection to T-Law first.
The Diggs trade is not that good IMO. 30 years old, headcase and inconsistent #2. Vikings and Bills were tired of this drama queen.
Where will this potential lineman start?
Neither LT on our roster is showing grade A material on tape and our RG is long in the tooth with middling run blocking.
They could draft a tackle and/or a guard and let the chips fall where they may in camp competition.
(04-03-2024, 03:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2024, 03:04 PM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Where will this potential lineman start?
Neither LT on our roster is showing grade A material on tape and our RG is long in the tooth with middling run blocking.
They could draft a tackle and/or a guard and let the chips fall where they may in camp competition.
Graham Barton is your guy then. Even at 17. He can play any of these positions. One of the NFC Scouts is on record saying that he's exactly what you want in an offensive lineman, consistent, same guy on tape, no matter where he lined-up.
I honestly think he's a good fit for our offense and it wouldn't shock me if they take him at all. You just have to make a decision on what he's going to play as a rookie. You can decide to play him at LT and look to move on and trade away Cam Robinson for a late RD pick.
Or, you can ride it out with Robinson again and put Barton at Guard or Center as a rookie. I am curious what this team does though with the OL in general. It seems like on paper they're finished.
You have:
Robinson back at LT.
Cleveland back at LG.
Morse newly acquired at C.
Scherff restructured to stay at RG.
Harrison entering year two at RT after a promising rookie season.
If you take an offensive lineman with the 17th selection, one of these guys is getting bumped off the starting line-up and headed to the bench or destined to the trading block. Because of that? It's one of the sole reasons I feel this team is NOT looking at OL this early. I still think it's defense early and offensive lineman later starting in RD4.
I would be shocked if the took a OL in the first 3 rounds after the offseason moves. CB, DL and WR make much more sense
Agreed about the OLine. If Cooper Hodges is an actual potential player this season, I'd hope the Jags could draft someone just as capable, from a bigger school, in the 4th round. Especially if the player has a year to develop (unless injury arises).
And as far as getting a player that isn't going to start...Conner Williams is still unsigned...and if he's healthy later in the year...would be IMO a potential upgrade on Scherff.