Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(03-29-2024, 04:11 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Reddick to the jests for a conditional 3rd.

A 2026 3rd lol

What a steal

(03-29-2024, 04:50 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 04:11 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Reddick to the jests for a conditional 3rd.

A 2026 3rd lol

What a steal

Depends. It could become a 2nd RD selection in 2026. It's more of a win for the Eagles. Rodgers might only be good for 2024 and then in 2025 they may or may not have their QB situation resolved.

Meaning they could be in the tank. They also have to resign him after the season is over. To me, it feels like the Eagles won here and stole more from the Jets potentially in the grand scheme of things.

(03-29-2024, 12:37 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]We have yet to see Miller play lets save these until preseason at least.  He was a playmaker on the gators defense.  Has a nose for stopping the run and being around the ball.

Yep exactly.

(03-29-2024, 02:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I take issue with Baalke on both the Muma and V Miller picks, and I blame him and Pederson for being far too content with the OL entering the 2023 season. 

Outside of that - he's been good enough. I find the Baalke bashing from local pundits and fans insanely over the top. I stopped listening to most of the 1010 content because of it. Nauseating.

My issue is process. What’s the plan?

Pay Foye a lot of money. Then immediately draft Lloyd and Muma. Then the next year draft Miller. What’s the plan?

Have JRob? Let’s draft ETN in round 1. Back that up with Snoop and then back that up with Bigsby. Now we know JRob got hurt but the process wasn’t good.

I just feel like there’s no plan or process. I may be alone in this one but so be it.

The plan was for Foye to be a top notch stop gap until the young talent developed. 

Clearly they decided the young talent hasn't developed to a place that outweighs re-upping the stop gap. 

I get investing in a quality backup ILB - they get hurt. I don't get doing it when they did it (Muma pick) given the other glaring needs. Same with Miller. 

The RB thing is less of an issue for me even if I'd have done it differently. Whiffing on Connor is the only real grievance there to me. ETN is valuable and Bigsby may be a solid contributor soon once the line is functional.

(03-29-2024, 05:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 04:50 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]A 2026 3rd lol

What a steal

Depends. It could become a 2nd RD selection in 2026. It's more of a win for the Eagles. Rodgers might only be good for 2024 and then in 2025 they may or may not have their QB situation resolved.

Meaning they could be in the tank. They also have to resign him after the season is over. To me, it feels like the Eagles won here and stole more from the Jets potentially in the grand scheme of things.

You have to look at the contract as well. Reddick is on the last year of his deal and wants to get paid.   Its a 3rd and could be a 2nd on top of the contract.  Far from a steal.  Eagles signed Huff to a 3 year deal.  They switched pass rushers, Reddick is better but Huff is a good bit younger, Huff looks to be an up and coming player though

(03-29-2024, 02:48 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:22 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]I second your take on Lloyd.

Last year he was graded a 90.3 against the run 3rd best amongst all linebackers. His overall grade went from 48.3 his rookie year to 78.1. He had a better completion percentage allowed than Fred Warner, Roquan Smith, and Dre Greenlaw 3 players ranked as top 10 at the position. Lloyd only gave up 2 touchdowns last year Warner and Smith gave up 1 Greenlaw gave up 4. Lloyd had a miss tackle percentage of 8.2 which was better than Warner and Greenlaw. He gets overlooked due to his lack of turnovers but him having a cast had a lot to do with that.

Lloyd is honestly the guy to watch in my opinion going into year three. Especially in this defense. They'll play mostly a lot of 4-2-5 looks defensively. Which means Oluokon will mostly be featured. 

However, when it's a base 4 - 3? I think he would be an interesting outside linebacker and he was a really good rusher at Utah from that perspective. 

I think he'll be better in Nielsen's defense personally.

The Falcons lined up in a 4-3 for a total of 56 snaps last season, which was 5% of their snaps. It's going to be a 4-2-5 Defense.

(03-29-2024, 02:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I take issue with Baalke on both the Muma and V Miller picks, and I blame him and Pederson for being far too content with the OL entering the 2023 season. 

Outside of that - he's been good enough. I find the Baalke bashing from local pundits and fans insanely over the top. I stopped listening to most of the 1010 content because of it. Nauseating.

My issue is process. What’s the plan?

Pay Foye a lot of money. Then immediately draft Lloyd and Muma. Then the next year draft Miller. What’s the plan?

Have JRob? Let’s draft ETN in round 1. Back that up with Snoop and then back that up with Bigsby. Now we know JRob got hurt but the process wasn’t good.

I just feel like there’s no plan or process. I may be alone in this one but so be it.

The stream of RBs has been his MO since SF.  We can deduce that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of paying RBs no matter who they are and he'll keep bringing guys in the door until someone claims the job from the outgoing or declining RB.  He let Gore go when Gore still had gas in the tank.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an RB in this draft class (if so, late I hope) because that has been one of the stronger trends in his drafting.  Not paying RBs is a good philosophy in my opinion.

LB picks were interesting.  We were drafting for a different philosophy then than we will be going forward.  The only thing that makes sense to me is they had Muma and Miller graded head and shoulders above anyone else on the board when they were selected and weren't expecting either to be there, so he took the clearly highest graded remaining player on their board.  Also, injuries happen and sometimes previously selected highly graded players don't always develop for whatever reason.  Sometimes your board is screaming at you to take a guy you weren't necessarily envisioning selecting because your cupboard at that position is already relatively full.  You take him anyway because of the unknowns I just mentioned. They may have even had late 2nd/early 3rd round grades on Muma and Miller and no one else close to that grade on their board.  What would you do if that was the scenario? It sounds to me like he's generally a BAP guy even into the 4th round with Miller.  I'm ok with that personally.

There is an argument for Baalke to be fired for how bad the o-line we trotted out last year was.  I wouldn't fire him off of that alone, but I can understand the argument and it is a valid criticism. I'd imagine he's on thin ice pending what happens this season.  Everything else seems to manifest in the anti-Baalke groupthink echo chamber.

(03-29-2024, 11:31 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]My issue is process. What’s the plan?

Pay Foye a lot of money. Then immediately draft Lloyd and Muma. Then the next year draft Miller. What’s the plan?

Have JRob? Let’s draft ETN in round 1. Back that up with Snoop and then back that up with Bigsby. Now we know JRob got hurt but the process wasn’t good.

I just feel like there’s no plan or process. I may be alone in this one but so be it.

The stream of RBs has been his MO since SF.  We can deduce that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of paying RBs no matter who they are and he'll keep bringing guys in the door until someone claims the job from the outgoing or declining RB.  He let Gore go when Gore still had gas in the tank.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an RB in this draft class (if so, late I hope) because that has been one of the stronger trends in his drafting.  Not paying RBs is a good philosophy in my opinion.

LB picks were interesting.  We were drafting for a different philosophy then than we will be going forward.  The only thing that makes sense to me is they had Muma and Miller graded head and shoulders above anyone else on the board when they were selected and weren't expecting either to be there, so he took the clearly highest graded remaining player on their board.  Also, injuries happen and sometimes previously selected highly graded players don't always develop for whatever reason.  Sometimes your board is screaming at you to take a guy you weren't necessarily envisioning selecting because your cupboard at that position is already relatively full.  You take him anyway because of the unknowns I just mentioned.  They may have even had late 2nd/early 3rd round grades on Muma and Miller and no one else close to that grade on their board.  What would you do if that was the scenario? It sounds to me like he's generally a BAP guy even into the 4th round with Miller.  I'm ok with that personally.

There is an argument for Baalke to be fired for how bad the o-line we trotted out last year was.  I wouldn't fire him off of that alone, but I can understand the argument and it is a valid criticism.  I'd imagine he's on thin ice pending what happens this season.  Everything else seems to manifest in the anti-Baalke groupthink echo chamber.

At pick 70 (70!), do you honestly believe Muma was head a shoulder above every other prospect? They spent 2 of their top 70 picks on linebackers after giving Oluokon a big contract. 

If they take another linebacker this year in round 2 because they’re “head and shoulders above everyone else”, you going to be cool with it? They did that last year with Strange and Bigsby. They used high draft capital to take backups at non premium positions. It’s one thing to take a backup pass rush rusher, CB or OL but to take a backup TE?

Again. Process.

(03-29-2024, 11:31 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:32 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]My issue is process. What’s the plan?

Pay Foye a lot of money. Then immediately draft Lloyd and Muma. Then the next year draft Miller. What’s the plan?

Have JRob? Let’s draft ETN in round 1. Back that up with Snoop and then back that up with Bigsby. Now we know JRob got hurt but the process wasn’t good.

I just feel like there’s no plan or process. I may be alone in this one but so be it.

The stream of RBs has been his MO since SF.  We can deduce that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of paying RBs no matter who they are and he'll keep bringing guys in the door until someone claims the job from the outgoing or declining RB.  He let Gore go when Gore still had gas in the tank.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an RB in this draft class (if so, late I hope) because that has been one of the stronger trends in his drafting.  Not paying RBs is a good philosophy in my opinion.

LB picks were interesting.  We were drafting for a different philosophy then than we will be going forward.  The only thing that makes sense to me is they had Muma and Miller graded head and shoulders above anyone else on the board when they were selected and weren't expecting either to be there, so he took the clearly highest graded remaining player on their board.  Also, injuries happen and sometimes previously selected highly graded players don't always develop for whatever reason.  Sometimes your board is screaming at you to take a guy you weren't necessarily envisioning selecting because your cupboard at that position is already relatively full.  You take him anyway because of the unknowns I just mentioned.  They may have even had late 2nd/early 3rd round grades on Muma and Miller and no one else close to that grade on their board.  What would you do if that was the scenario? It sounds to me like he's generally a BAP guy even into the 4th round with Miller.  I'm ok with that personally.

There is an argument for Baalke to be fired for how bad the o-line we trotted out last year was.  I wouldn't fire him off of that alone, but I can understand the argument and it is a valid criticism.  I'd imagine he's on thin ice pending what happens this season.  Everything else seems to manifest in the anti-Baalke groupthink echo chamber.

Agree with the first paragraph.  Drafting a LB isnt the problem, its the player.  Although I did like Muma but Christian Harris was sitting there.  He was actually who I wanted when we took Fortner, so Id of been happy with him when we took Muma as well.  I really liked Brian Robinson also who was sitting there in the 3rd.  Muma is only 24 so hopefully with a full camp and new DC we can see why he was the pick.  Muma is a top 50 All time ras and was very good at Wyoming so I want to see some of the things he did at Wyoming this year for the Jags.

https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1500465674573037579

(03-29-2024, 10:03 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 02:48 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Lloyd is honestly the guy to watch in my opinion going into year three. Especially in this defense. They'll play mostly a lot of 4-2-5 looks defensively. Which means Oluokon will mostly be featured. 

However, when it's a base 4 - 3? I think he would be an interesting outside linebacker and he was a really good rusher at Utah from that perspective. 

I think he'll be better in Nielsen's defense personally.

The Falcons lined up in a 4-3 for a total of 56 snaps last season, which was 5% of their snaps. It's going to be a 4-2-5 Defense.

Falcons LB group isnt nowhere near as good as our LB's.  If Miller or Muma has a very good camp and we have 3 very good LB's I think you will see a lot more 4-3.  Have to play to the strength of our defense.

(03-30-2024, 08:23 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 11:31 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]The stream of RBs has been his MO since SF.  We can deduce that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of paying RBs no matter who they are and he'll keep bringing guys in the door until someone claims the job from the outgoing or declining RB.  He let Gore go when Gore still had gas in the tank.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an RB in this draft class (if so, late I hope) because that has been one of the stronger trends in his drafting.  Not paying RBs is a good philosophy in my opinion.

LB picks were interesting.  We were drafting for a different philosophy then than we will be going forward.  The only thing that makes sense to me is they had Muma and Miller graded head and shoulders above anyone else on the board when they were selected and weren't expecting either to be there, so he took the clearly highest graded remaining player on their board.  Also, injuries happen and sometimes previously selected highly graded players don't always develop for whatever reason.  Sometimes your board is screaming at you to take a guy you weren't necessarily envisioning selecting because your cupboard at that position is already relatively full.  You take him anyway because of the unknowns I just mentioned.  They may have even had late 2nd/early 3rd round grades on Muma and Miller and no one else close to that grade on their board.  What would you do if that was the scenario? It sounds to me like he's generally a BAP guy even into the 4th round with Miller.  I'm ok with that personally.

There is an argument for Baalke to be fired for how bad the o-line we trotted out last year was.  I wouldn't fire him off of that alone, but I can understand the argument and it is a valid criticism.  I'd imagine he's on thin ice pending what happens this season.  Everything else seems to manifest in the anti-Baalke groupthink echo chamber.

At pick 70 (70!), do you honestly believe Muma was head a shoulder above every other prospect? They spent 2 of their top 70 picks on linebackers after giving Oluokon a big contract. 

If they take another linebacker this year in round 2 because they’re “head and shoulders above everyone else”, you going to be cool with it? They did that last year with Strange and Bigsby. They used high draft capital to take backups at non premium positions. It’s one thing to take a backup pass rush rusher, CB or OL but to take a backup TE?

Again. Process.

Absolutely, if LB is head and shoulders above everyone else taken behind him they finally made the right pick.  It means we will likely have an All Pro at LB if they are head and shoulders above every pick after him.  They just missed on the Muma pick being he wasn't.  If Strange and Bigbsy was better than every player after them they nailed those picks as well.  It's the player not the position.

BPA vs need draft discussion season firing up right on time. It does give the anti-Baalkie crowd a chance to take a few shots. The Muma pick was a strict BPA pick. Baalkie said as much when interviewed after the draft. So on the surface the BPAc rowd should put that in the plus column. Personally I am neither BPA or needs drafting. Maybe call it relative BPA.

(03-30-2024, 11:03 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]BPA vs need draft discussion season firing up right on time. It does give the anti-Baalkie crowd a chance to take a few shots.  The  Muma pick was a strict BPA pick. Baalkie said as much when interviewed after the draft. So on the surface the BPAc rowd should put that in the plus column.  Personally I am neither BPA or needs drafting. Maybe call it relative BPA.

I’m not need or BPA drafting. I’m more about value.

And there was no value in selecting Muma at pick 70. There’s no chance he was rated that much higher than other players at positions that could have helped the Jags. The best case for Muma would have been for Foye or Lloyd to get hurt so he could actually see the field.

At this point, he’s a wasted top 70 pick. They’ll need to figure out if they want to re sign him without ever actually seeing him on the field.

(03-30-2024, 12:16 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-30-2024, 11:03 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]BPA vs need draft discussion season firing up right on time. It does give the anti-Baalkie crowd a chance to take a few shots.  The  Muma pick was a strict BPA pick. Baalkie said as much when interviewed after the draft. So on the surface the BPAc rowd should put that in the plus column.  Personally I am neither BPA or needs drafting. Maybe call it relative BPA.

I’m not need or BPA drafting. I’m more about value.

And there was no value in selecting Muma at pick 70. There’s no chance he was rated that much higher than other players at positions that could have helped the Jags. The best case for Muma would have been for Foye or Lloyd to get hurt so he could actually see the field.

At this point, he’s a wasted top 70 pick. They’ll need to figure out if they want to re sign him without ever actually seeing him on the field.

Personally I would think of BPA and most valuable as the same, but regardless, the problem with Muma isn't that they took a linebacker in the third round. If he were another Daryl Smith or Mike Peterson it would be fine to spend a third round pick on him.

The problem with Muma is the problem most of the players Baalke has taken have, he's not good. It looks like Baalke is either incapable of determining ability for players, or he's so focused on what he thinks of as needs that he's reaching badly for bad players to fill roster spots.

Considering most of his picks don't seem to particularly fill need, either, I'm thinking he's just an awful talent evaluator.

He should have been shown the door with Urban. The next best time to show him the door is right now.

(03-30-2024, 02:36 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-30-2024, 12:16 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I’m not need or BPA drafting. I’m more about value.

And there was no value in selecting Muma at pick 70. There’s no chance he was rated that much higher than other players at positions that could have helped the Jags. The best case for Muma would have been for Foye or Lloyd to get hurt so he could actually see the field.

At this point, he’s a wasted top 70 pick. They’ll need to figure out if they want to re sign him without ever actually seeing him on the field.

Personally I would think of BPA and most valuable as the same, but regardless, the problem with Muma isn't that they took a linebacker in the third round. If he were another Daryl Smith or Mike Peterson it would be fine to spend a third round pick on him.

The problem with Muma is the problem most of the players Baalke has taken have, he's not good. It looks like Baalke is either incapable of determining ability for players, or he's so focused on what he thinks of as needs that he's reaching badly for bad players to fill roster spots.

Considering most of his picks don't seem to particularly fill need, either, I'm thinking he's just an awful talent evaluator.

He should have been shown the door with Urban. The next best time to show him the door is right now.

That's a legitimate criticism, though I would prefer to wait until this year to start making definitive judgements on a guy like Muma.  The belly aching over where he was selected without further information that we'll never have is unwarranted.  Had we been in the meetings with scouts, had we sat in the chair watching the amount of actual film that gets watched (not YouTube highlights), had we been in the draft room working with all of the information on draft day, it's quite possible we or must of us would have made the exact same decision.

(03-30-2024, 04:48 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-30-2024, 02:36 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I would think of BPA and most valuable as the same, but regardless, the problem with Muma isn't that they took a linebacker in the third round. If he were another Daryl Smith or Mike Peterson it would be fine to spend a third round pick on him.

The problem with Muma is the problem most of the players Baalke has taken have, he's not good. It looks like Baalke is either incapable of determining ability for players, or he's so focused on what he thinks of as needs that he's reaching badly for bad players to fill roster spots.

Considering most of his picks don't seem to particularly fill need, either, I'm thinking he's just an awful talent evaluator.

He should have been shown the door with Urban. The next best time to show him the door is right now.

That's a legitimate criticism, though I would prefer to wait until this year to start making definitive judgements on a guy like Muma.  The belly aching over where he was selected without further information that we'll never have is unwarranted.  Had we been in the meetings with scouts, had we sat in the chair watching the amount of actual film that gets watched (not YouTube highlights), had we been in the draft room working with all of the information on draft day, it's quite possible we or must of us would have made the exact same decision.

Muma has started 4 games.

Are we certain we know his actual ceiling? Hasn't had a ton of opportunity.

(03-30-2024, 04:48 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-30-2024, 02:36 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I would think of BPA and most valuable as the same, but regardless, the problem with Muma isn't that they took a linebacker in the third round. If he were another Daryl Smith or Mike Peterson it would be fine to spend a third round pick on him.

The problem with Muma is the problem most of the players Baalke has taken have, he's not good. It looks like Baalke is either incapable of determining ability for players, or he's so focused on what he thinks of as needs that he's reaching badly for bad players to fill roster spots.

Considering most of his picks don't seem to particularly fill need, either, I'm thinking he's just an awful talent evaluator.

He should have been shown the door with Urban. The next best time to show him the door is right now.

That's a legitimate criticism, though I would prefer to wait until this year to start making definitive judgements on a guy like Muma.  The belly aching over where he was selected without further information that we'll never have is unwarranted.  Had we been in the meetings with scouts, had we sat in the chair watching the amount of actual film that gets watched (not YouTube highlights), had we been in the draft room working with all of the information on draft day, it's quite possible we or must of us would have made the exact same decision.

So how do you plan on making a definitive statement about him when he’s not going to play this year?

(03-30-2024, 08:42 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-30-2024, 04:48 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]That's a legitimate criticism, though I would prefer to wait until this year to start making definitive judgements on a guy like Muma.  The belly aching over where he was selected without further information that we'll never have is unwarranted.  Had we been in the meetings with scouts, had we sat in the chair watching the amount of actual film that gets watched (not YouTube highlights), had we been in the draft room working with all of the information on draft day, it's quite possible we or must of us would have made the exact same decision.

So how do you plan on making a definitive statement about him when he’s not going to play this year?

That's a pretty definitive statement.  You sure he isn't going to play?  Maybe the new DC likes him some Muma.  A lot still up in the air about if he's going to use the personnel he has here or run the exact scheme he ran in Atl come hell or high water.  I'd just like a guy to go through a couple of offseasons before saying he is what he is and was a horrible pick.

And injuries occur.

(03-30-2024, 08:41 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2024, 10:03 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]The Falcons lined up in a 4-3 for a total of 56 snaps last season, which was 5% of their snaps. It's going to be a 4-2-5 Defense.

Falcons LB group isnt nowhere near as good as our LB's.  If Miller or Muma has a very good camp and we have 3 very good LB's I think you will see a lot more 4-3.  Have to play to the strength of our defense.

Doesn't matter, it's going to be a 4-2-5 Defense. There's no need for "what ifs".