My people, think how close Florida was to being California if Gillum had beaten DeSantis.
Like golf, life is a game of inches.
(05-13-2020, 08:30 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 05:56 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]70% of deaths in pennsylvania were from nursing homes. They had the same order as NY did. And, the top health official moved her 95 year old grandparent from a ltc facility.
If ever there was a case to strip someone of their sovereign immunity!
... Where were these people supposed to go, and with what money?
Ok, In PA (like NY) the state MANDATED that nursing homes accept COVID POSITIVE PATIENTS. You know, the old people who make up between 25 to 50% of mortality in every western country. That accounted for 70% of the deaths in that state. You know, we have to shut down the entire country to protect the elderly. Grand parents not 401k. We spent 6 trillion dollars and built hospitals in stadiums. If you're actually going to sit here and tell me we couldn't find a few more hospital beds to avoid seeding an epidemic with a death rate over 1186k/million (for the over 85 demographic.).
This one policy decision proves that the entirety of these lockdowns failed even the most basic objectives that we were sold at the outset and will possibly cost us years of economic development and hundreds of thousands of lives because we cut off the healthcare system to millions and millions of americans stricken with the other myriad of morbidities in our nations populace that make up the majority of mortality in this country. There is no excuse. The Health Director of PA actually moved his grandparent out of a long term care facility because of the danger posed by this policy.
(05-13-2020, 10:30 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 08:30 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]... Where were these people supposed to go, and with what money?
Ok, In PA (like NY) the state MANDATED that nursing homes accept COVID POSITIVE PATIENTS. You know, the old people who make up between 25 to 50% of mortality in every western country. That accounted for 70% of the deaths in that state. You know, we have to shut down the entire country to protect the elderly. Grand parents not 401k. We spent 6 trillion dollars and built hospitals in stadiums. If you're actually going to sit here and tell me we couldn't find a few more hospital beds to avoid seeding an epidemic with a death rate over 1186k/million (for the over 85 demographic.).
This one policy decision proves that the entirety of these lockdowns failed even the most basic objectives that we were sold at the outset and will possibly cost us years of economic development and hundreds of thousands of lives because we cut off the healthcare system to millions and millions of americans stricken with the other myriad of morbidities in our nations populace that make up the majority of mortality in this country. There is no excuse. The Health Director of PA actually moved his grandparent out of a long term care facility because of the danger posed by this policy.
So that's a lot of words just to say, "I'd have made them stay in hospitals until they test negative, and spent gobs of money to invent new hospital beds in a short period of time so they have a place to stay."
That's not necessarily the best plan, but at least it's a plan.
We have no plan right now.
The states don't have the spare money sitting around to keep all the people who test positive in hospital beds. Remember many of these people might have mild symptoms or no symptoms. They don't even have spare money to put these people in some of the many empty hotel rooms that are available, so at least they don't spread it to their family members.
Individual states will never come up with plans like this, unless the federal government funds them generously or mandates them.
Are you calling for the federal government to impose plans of this nature on the states?
(05-10-2020, 06:43 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (05-10-2020, 06:30 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]This is sick. Not hyperbole, this is the act of a sociopath.
Thailand had the first case outside of China. They have been aggressively treating everyone who tests positive, and those in contact with them, with HCQ. They have just 56 deaths in a country of 69 million, and their case fatality rate is 1.9% (Norway has the best in Europe at 2.7%).
Just another anecdote, right?
I find it interesting that you believe Thailand's numbers without a second glance despite a bevy of information suggesting they have lied about numbers and never actually accurately reported. Especially when you don't believe China's numbers at all (with good reason)
Almost like if it fits your narrative you don't have an issue with the numbers
(05-13-2020, 10:49 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 10:30 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, In PA (like NY) the state MANDATED that nursing homes accept COVID POSITIVE PATIENTS. You know, the old people who make up between 25 to 50% of mortality in every western country. That accounted for 70% of the deaths in that state. You know, we have to shut down the entire country to protect the elderly. Grand parents not 401k. We spent 6 trillion dollars and built hospitals in stadiums. If you're actually going to sit here and tell me we couldn't find a few more hospital beds to avoid seeding an epidemic with a death rate over 1186k/million (for the over 85 demographic.).
This one policy decision proves that the entirety of these lockdowns failed even the most basic objectives that we were sold at the outset and will possibly cost us years of economic development and hundreds of thousands of lives because we cut off the healthcare system to millions and millions of americans stricken with the other myriad of morbidities in our nations populace that make up the majority of mortality in this country. There is no excuse. The Health Director of PA actually moved his grandparent out of a long term care facility because of the danger posed by this policy.
So that's a lot of words just to say, "I'd have made them stay in hospitals until they test negative, and spent gobs of money to invent new hospital beds in a short period of time so they have a place to stay."
That's not necessarily the best plan, but at least it's a plan.
We have no plan right now.
The states don't have the spare money sitting around to keep all the people who test positive in hospital beds. Remember many of these people might have mild symptoms or no symptoms. They don't even have spare money to put these people in some of the many empty hotel rooms that are available, so at least they don't spread it to their family members.
Individual states will never come up with plans like this, unless the federal government funds them generously or mandates them.
Are you calling for the federal government to impose plans of this nature on the states?
So... let me get this straight. We are spending hundreds of billions of dollars to keep healthy young people from working.... we did spend billions of dollars building hospital capacity, and you are going to sit here with a straight face and tell me that in some world, any world, it was more economical to spend resources supplementing 30 million people on unemployment vs. Putting a couple hundred people (the original people that seeded the outbreaks in nursing homes) in hospitals until a full incubation cycle past a negative test? You do realize that's a level of economic illiteracy that defies imagination right?
I can't find the article at the moment, but I thought I read here in Duval county, while the COVID-19 deaths so far are minimal, deaths by drug overdose are up 20%!
More unintended/not discussed repercussions of this prolonged lock down. And that's just Duval County.
(05-14-2020, 01:43 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 10:49 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]So that's a lot of words just to say, "I'd have made them stay in hospitals until they test negative, and spent gobs of money to invent new hospital beds in a short period of time so they have a place to stay."
That's not necessarily the best plan, but at least it's a plan.
We have no plan right now.
The states don't have the spare money sitting around to keep all the people who test positive in hospital beds. Remember many of these people might have mild symptoms or no symptoms. They don't even have spare money to put these people in some of the many empty hotel rooms that are available, so at least they don't spread it to their family members.
Individual states will never come up with plans like this, unless the federal government funds them generously or mandates them.
Are you calling for the federal government to impose plans of this nature on the states?
So... let me get this straight. We are spending hundreds of billions of dollars to keep healthy young people from working.... we did spend billions of dollars building hospital capacity, and you are going to sit here with a straight face and tell me that in some world, any world, it was more economical to spend resources supplementing 30 million people on unemployment vs. Putting a couple hundred people (the original people that seeded the outbreaks in nursing homes) in hospitals until a full incubation cycle past a negative test? You do realize that's a level of economic illiteracy that defies imagination right?
You misunderstand me. First of all, we can't change the past. I'm not defending how we handled the first wave. I'm just trying to figure out how to prevent a second.
And I'm also questioning your intellectual sincerity. You're a nattering nabob of negativity. Suppose, back in March, we had stuffed everyone suspected of having the disease in a hotel room patrolled by police in bunny suits, and kept them there, until a negative test result came back. Tell me that you would have been on board with that. Tell me you wouldn't have howled about due process or some such.
That takes self-awareness.
(05-14-2020, 11:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand me. First of all, we can't change the past. I'm not defending how we handled the first wave. I'm just trying to figure out how to prevent a second.
And I'm also questioning your intellectual sincerity. You're a nattering nabob of negativity. Suppose, back in March, we had stuffed everyone suspected of having the disease in a hotel room patrolled by police in bunny suits, and kept them there, until a negative test result came back. Tell me that you would have been on board with that. Tell me you wouldn't have howled about due process or some such.
Be better man...
Okay what word would you use instead of "suspected"...
Suppose someone is sick. Suppose they promptly get a covid 19 test.
But the results don't come back for 3 to 5 days.
Where do you put them for the three to five days?
What word would you use to describe their covid 19 status, during that time, if not "suspected"?
(05-14-2020, 12:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 11:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Be better man...
Okay what word would you use instead of "suspected"...
Suppose someone is sick. Suppose they promptly get a covid 19 test.
But the results don't come back for 3 to 5 days.
Where do you put them for the three to five days?
What word would you use to describe their covid 19 status, during that time, if not "suspected"?
No one positive for covid 19 should have been allowed in a nursing home. PERIOD.
These people used the coercive power of the state to mandate nursing homes accept positive patients. In the case of NH personell presumed or suspected, they should have self quarantined. As for residents they should have been allowed to stay in the hospital! They kicked them out to make room for the surge that didnt happen and contaminated the pool that was the greatest threat to hospital utilization in the first place! Resulting on roughly 70% of deaths in PA. protecting nursing homes should have been given priority!
(05-14-2020, 12:44 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 12:19 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Okay what word would you use instead of "suspected"...
Suppose someone is sick. Suppose they promptly get a covid 19 test.
But the results don't come back for 3 to 5 days.
Where do you put them for the three to five days?
What word would you use to describe their covid 19 status, during that time, if not "suspected"?
No one positive for covid 19 should have been allowed in a nursing home. PERIOD.
These people used the coercive power of the state to mandate nursing homes accept positive patients. In the case of NH personell presumed or suspected, they should have self quarantined. As for residents they should have been allowed to stay in the hospital! They kicked them out to make room for the surge that didnt happen and contaminated the pool that was the greatest threat to hospital utilization in the first place! Resulting on roughly 70% of deaths in PA. protecting nursing homes should have been given priority!
Positive results aren't instantaneous.
As I said, mine is taking 3 to 5 days.
Why should someone with a positive result, or suspected of being infected, but who isn't in actual medical distress, stay in a hospital? The most expensive place to stay in the world is an American hospital! Couldn't we figure out another place to put them? But who should figure that out? who has the authority to designate certain places as quarantine centers?
(05-14-2020, 12:55 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 12:44 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]No one positive for covid 19 should have been allowed in a nursing home. PERIOD.
These people used the coercive power of the state to mandate nursing homes accept positive patients. In the case of NH personell presumed or suspected, they should have self quarantined. As for residents they should have been allowed to stay in the hospital! They kicked them out to make room for the surge that didnt happen and contaminated the pool that was the greatest threat to hospital utilization in the first place! Resulting on roughly 70% of deaths in PA. protecting nursing homes should have been given priority!
Positive results aren't instantaneous.
As I said, mine is taking 3 to 5 days.
Why should someone with a positive result, or suspected of being infected, but who isn't in actual medical distress, stay in a hospital? The most expensive place to stay in the world is an American hospital! Couldn't we figure out another place to put them? But who should figure that out? who has the authority to designate certain places as quarantine centers?
I'm going to explain this one more time. Under the order placed in NY, PA, NJ etc. Nursing homes were forced to accept COVID POSITIVE PATIENTS. meaning that they already met CDC requirements to be tested. Were tested positive, stabilized by the hospital and sent back to the NH with active infections. NHs fought this tooth and nail. And its was the government using coercive force to mandate that the NHs take the patients. In one case the commissioner from PA moved a relative because he knew the risk!!!!
Moreover we spent billions of dollars expanding hospital capacity we didnt need based on flawed models from IHME and imperial college. Dont pretend we ran out of bed space. Were laying off hospital staff and emergency field hospitals in NY CA ETC. never opened. Dont tell me we didnt have the bed space to protect the very population we destroyed the stupid economy over #nottodaybruh
In addition nursing homes are part of the healthcare system. They can set there own criteria and guidelines for which patients pose a contagious risk to other residents and make their own arrangements to partner with facilities to serve patients that need intensive care or isolation. The alternative is essentially genocide!!!
You keep trying to make this about finding a top down state based strategy while willfully ignoring that the top down state based model CAUSED the very problems its purported to solve through sheer incompetence bordering on criminal malice.
(05-14-2020, 01:00 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 09:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand me. First of all, we can't change the past. I'm not defending how we handled the first wave. I'm just trying to figure out how to prevent a second.
And I'm also questioning your intellectual sincerity. You're a nattering nabob of negativity. Suppose, back in March, we had stuffed everyone suspected of having the disease in a hotel room patrolled by police in bunny suits, and kept them there, until a negative test result came back. Tell me that you would have been on board with that. Tell me you wouldn't have howled about due process or some such.
If you are talking about quarantining sick people who would otherwise be sent into a nursing home (the topic) in hotel rooms (plenty available since travel is way down) while awaiting test results and afterwards if positive then yes, I'd be on board with that. Nursing homes are concentrations of the people most susceptible of dying from the Wuhan virus. And give them all HCQ+Z if they agree to take it.
And the bunny suits would have had to wait until April.
And vitamin c & d. No, the solution the progressives came up with was to lock healthy people in their homes and have the bunny suits writing down license plate numbers @ worship services while essentially setting long term care facilities on fire.
#nottodaybruh
(05-14-2020, 02:11 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 09:30 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]My people, think how close Florida was to being California if Gillum had beaten DeSantis.
Like golf, life is a game of inches.
Wow .... never realized how close the election results were.
Ron DeSantis, Republican Rep. 4,076,186, 49.6%.
Andrew Gillum, Democrat Dem. 4,043,723, 49.2%
Kind of wondering who's life has gone worse since, Gillium who was busted with a relatively hot male escort while OD'ing on meth ..... our our guy Telvin who was busted with a minor
Shows how close we are to losing this country entirely.
(05-14-2020, 02:26 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (05-14-2020, 02:11 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Wow .... never realized how close the election results were.
Ron DeSantis, Republican Rep. 4,076,186, 49.6%.
Andrew Gillum, Democrat Dem. 4,043,723, 49.2%
Kind of wondering who's life has gone worse since, Gillium who was busted with a relatively hot male escort while OD'ing on meth ..... our our guy Telvin who was busted with a minor
Shows how close we are to losing this country entirely.
I'll second (or may third, fourth?) that.