I don't need to scour the internet. I only need to use common sense. They live on an island. They have a smaller, more homogenous population. They have less protected freedoms. Of course they are going to be able to control the spread better than us. EVEN STILL, their precautions are not be 100% effective, and that is with much greater draconian policies. Are you advocating for that? If not, why even point to them as an example? I am not saying they aren't doing a better job at stopping the spread. I am saying they are doing a worse job finding the balance between liberty and safety. The amount of liberty lost is not justified by the amount of safety they are gaining. You would be able to understand that in any other area of politic.
My whole point in questioning your statement was to simply ask you what would prevent this to a satisfactory degree. Sure, Australia is hiding, but it can't do it forever. Australia is going to have to reconnect with the rest of the world, and, when it does, they are going to have the same problems everyone else does. What damage is being done to their citizens as a result? Not only that, this disease is not that deadly. If it were, you wouldn't need to take such drastic measures.
(12-09-2021, 11:18 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't need to scour the internet. I only need to use common sense. They live on an island. They have a smaller, more homogenous population. They have less protected freedoms. Of course they are going to be able to control the spread better than us. EVEN STILL, their precautions are not be 100% effective, and that is with much greater draconian policies. Are you advocating for that? If not, why even point to them as an example? I am not saying they aren't doing a better job at stopping the spread. I am saying they are doing a worse job finding the balance between liberty and safety. The amount of liberty lost is not justified by the amount of safety they are gaining. You would be able to understand that in any other area of politic.
My whole point in questioning your statement was to simply ask you what would prevent this to a satisfactory degree. Sure, Australia is hiding, but it can't do it forever. Australia is going to have to reconnect with the rest of the world, and, when it does, they are going to have the same problems everyone else does. What damage is being done to their citizens as a result? Not only that, this disease is not that deadly. If it were, you wouldn't need to take such drastic measures.
Ummm
Everyone ik and especially everyone that i see daily are all happy and dandy over here
15th of december if going to be the d day in one sense
..its the day where everything is lifted restriction wise
..this means no qr code scanning , masks etc
And we have got international travel happening btw
(12-09-2021, 11:18 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I don't need to scour the internet. I only need to use common sense. They live on an island. They have a smaller, more homogenous population. They have less protected freedoms. Of course they are going to be able to control the spread better than us. EVEN STILL, their precautions are not be 100% effective, and that is with much greater draconian policies. Are you advocating for that? If not, why even point to them as an example? I am not saying they aren't doing a better job at stopping the spread. I am saying they are doing a worse job finding the balance between liberty and safety. The amount of liberty lost is not justified by the amount of safety they are gaining. You would be able to understand that in any other area of politic.
My whole point in questioning your statement was to simply ask you what would prevent this to a satisfactory degree. Sure, Australia is hiding, but it can't do it forever. Australia is going to have to reconnect with the rest of the world, and, when it does, they are going to have the same problems everyone else does. What damage is being done to their citizens as a result? Not only that, this disease is not that deadly. If it were, you wouldn't need to take such drastic measures.
But the precautions in Australia show that they are working. As I said. As you disputed. Because they have the will to force them. As I said. As you disputed. I made no comment on liberty vs safety or 100% reduction or any of the other things you tried to insert into my comment so you could say I'm wrong. I didn't even advocate doing what they are doing. I simply said they work if done right, you said they don't. And I'm right even though you cannot bring yourself to admit that you overreached in your response. Politicians who will not abide by the rules are a reason why they rules aren't working. People who say the precautions don't work even as they absolutely refuse to use them are another reason why the precautions aren't working. The rules aren't the problem, the precautions aren't either, those people are. And yes, if this were aerosolized Ebola many of these morons would still be doing the same thing, because it's not real, a hoax, a government plot, a corporate money grab, bad science, or any of the other reasons why people are refusing to do the basic things needed to control infection, all the while people's organs are/would be liquifying around them. Thank God this stupid little bug isn't that bad.
(12-09-2021, 10:59 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2021, 08:44 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Bro, why are you being so smug? You can't take the highground when half of your posts are throw away comments. You and Cheatwood are sitting in a tree.
I asked you several different times to explain what you meant. Take 5 minutes and elaborate and then maybe you won't be misunderstood. I don't have a duty to interpret all of what you mean in your head from a 10 word post, so when I ask you to explain that's literally me asking you to clarify your comment. When double down with another 10 word post, it's not going anywhere.
So again, I ask you... what do you mean when you say these precautions are effective? Would 100% vaccination stop the spread of this virus? 100% lockdowns? What is going on in that administrative little brain of yours?
I'm not being smug, it's just that it's a very simple precept, but you always try to read more into everything than what's there with a default position that I'm wrong. The precautions work if used correctly, it's not the precautions that are the problem, it's the people who will not abide by them. Need proof? For all that I don't agree with all that they are doing the difference in outcomes between us and the Aussies is obvious. Of course you won't be able to accept that because I said it therefore it's wrong, Q.E.D. Now you will spend the next 12 hours scouring the internet to find studies that show that infection rates are the same between the two countries or that there's some other esoteric reason why Australia appears to be dealing with Covid better than the USA that only you comprehend and in the end you'll still be unable to grasp a simple concept, I'll still be right, and you'll still think you are. So what's the point?
Trying to compare Australia to the US is apples to oranges. How about California to Florida?
FSG: Banning cars is an effective way to stop car accident deaths.
You know how dumb it is to use that line of reasoning in anything? This is the political forum. We are literally debating the rightness or wrongness of policy. If your sole point is that Australia is containing the virus, I would make a moderate concession with the caveat being the difficulty with reopening (which we are seeing). However, as coy as you are sometimes, it's painful for me to watch you try to pretend like you weren't insinuating that we are doing it wrong. That was your actual point. It's based in zero science. America could not do what Australia is doing with out brute tyranny, and it's stupid to suggest that our problems in the US is that we haven't locked down long enough. The data state to state has proven you wrong. And, even if everyone complied, the illegal immigrant problem would completely nullify it.
Btw, FSG... I have made many concessions in this thread, and the science I follow and post has been correct almost every time.
(12-10-2021, 12:57 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2021, 10:59 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not being smug, it's just that it's a very simple precept, but you always try to read more into everything than what's there with a default position that I'm wrong. The precautions work if used correctly, it's not the precautions that are the problem, it's the people who will not abide by them. Need proof? For all that I don't agree with all that they are doing the difference in outcomes between us and the Aussies is obvious. Of course you won't be able to accept that because I said it therefore it's wrong, Q.E.D. Now you will spend the next 12 hours scouring the internet to find studies that show that infection rates are the same between the two countries or that there's some other esoteric reason why Australia appears to be dealing with Covid better than the USA that only you comprehend and in the end you'll still be unable to grasp a simple concept, I'll still be right, and you'll still think you are. So what's the point?
Trying to compare Australia to the US is apples to oranges. How about California to Florida?
Sure, over what time period and by what measures? And what are the specific differences between Florida and California that we want to examine that are substantially different from the USA to AUS comparison?
(12-10-2021, 01:10 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]FSG: Banning cars is an effective way to stop car accident deaths.
You know how dumb it is to use that line of reasoning in anything? This is the political forum. We are literally debating the rightness or wrongness of policy. If your sole point is that Australia is containing the virus, I would make a moderate concession with the caveat being the difficulty with reopening (which we are seeing). However, as coy as you are sometimes, it's painful for me to watch you try to pretend like you weren't insinuating that we are doing it wrong. That was your actual point. It's based in zero science. America could not do what Australia is doing with out brute tyranny, and it's stupid to suggest that our problems in the US is that we haven't locked down long enough. The data state to state has proven you wrong. And, even if everyone complied, the illegal immigrant problem would completely nullify it.
Btw, FSG... I have made many concessions in this thread, and the science I follow and post has been correct almost every time.
Yes it is, and saying that unused seatbelts failed to prevent accident deaths is incorrect. We aren't doing it wrong, we are doing it half-[BLEEP]. During the "15 Days" period what percentage of the population followed the guidelines? I know I didn't, how about you? Do you think our actions exacerbated or prolonged the pandemic? I do and you know it as well. As I've said, the outcome of our experience with Covid isn't that the precautions don't work, it's that they can't, mostly because we have too many people who refuse them and we don't have to will to actually mandate it. I'm not even saying that mandating it is the "right" thing to do, just that saying they don't work isn't accurate. They do, every day in thousands of settings around the world, but they have to be used in order to work. The idea that there's no science to support the use of standard precautions flies in the face of decades of research, practice, and facts, and when you say stuff like that and get called on it you get all huffy and start changing your argument to some new goalpost. It's stupid for you to think that you're right, you simply aren't.
(12-10-2021, 10:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 01:10 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]FSG: Banning cars is an effective way to stop car accident deaths.
You know how dumb it is to use that line of reasoning in anything? This is the political forum. We are literally debating the rightness or wrongness of policy. If your sole point is that Australia is containing the virus, I would make a moderate concession with the caveat being the difficulty with reopening (which we are seeing). However, as coy as you are sometimes, it's painful for me to watch you try to pretend like you weren't insinuating that we are doing it wrong. That was your actual point. It's based in zero science. America could not do what Australia is doing with out brute tyranny, and it's stupid to suggest that our problems in the US is that we haven't locked down long enough. The data state to state has proven you wrong. And, even if everyone complied, the illegal immigrant problem would completely nullify it.
Btw, FSG... I have made many concessions in this thread, and the science I follow and post has been correct almost every time.
Yes it is, and saying that unused seatbelts failed to prevent accident deaths is incorrect. We aren't doing it wrong, we are doing it half-[BLEEP]. During the "15 Days" period what percentage of the population followed the guidelines? I know I didn't, how about you? Do you think our actions exacerbated or prolonged the pandemic? I do and you know it as well. As I've said, the outcome of our experience with Covid isn't that the precautions don't work, it's that they can't, mostly because we have too many people who refuse them and we don't have to will to actually mandate it. I'm not even saying that mandating it is the "right" thing to do, just that saying they don't work isn't accurate. They do, every day in thousands of settings around the world, but they have to be used in order to work. The idea that there's no science to support the use of standard precautions flies in the face of decades of research, practice, and facts, and when you say stuff like that and get called on it you get all huffy and start changing your argument to some new goalpost. It's stupid for you to think that you're right, you simply aren't.
The simple truth is the people of Australia are weak and easily compliant. They are nothing like their ancestors who were anything but that. But hey, a couple hundred years of weakness is all it takes.
Americans will never be that weak. Ever. Whether out of hubris, overconfidence, whatever... it's instilled into us at birth that somehow we are special, stronger and better than the rest of the world. And it works. Because, well, we are. Individually, maybe not, but as a whole? There's no country that is even close to what we can accomplish.
(12-10-2021, 10:59 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 10:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Yes it is, and saying that unused seatbelts failed to prevent accident deaths is incorrect. We aren't doing it wrong, we are doing it half-[BLEEP]. During the "15 Days" period what percentage of the population followed the guidelines? I know I didn't, how about you? Do you think our actions exacerbated or prolonged the pandemic? I do and you know it as well. As I've said, the outcome of our experience with Covid isn't that the precautions don't work, it's that they can't, mostly because we have too many people who refuse them and we don't have to will to actually mandate it. I'm not even saying that mandating it is the "right" thing to do, just that saying they don't work isn't accurate. They do, every day in thousands of settings around the world, but they have to be used in order to work. The idea that there's no science to support the use of standard precautions flies in the face of decades of research, practice, and facts, and when you say stuff like that and get called on it you get all huffy and start changing your argument to some new goalpost. It's stupid for you to think that you're right, you simply aren't.
The simple truth is the people of Australia are weak and easily compliant. They are nothing like their ancestors who were anything but that. But hey, a couple hundred years of weakness is all it takes.
Americans will never be that weak. Ever. Whether out of hubris, overconfidence, whatever... it's instilled into us at birth that somehow we are special, stronger and better than the rest of the world. And it works. Because, well, we are. Individually, maybe not, but as a whole? There's no country that is even close to what we can accomplish.
And this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.
(12-10-2021, 12:08 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 10:59 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]The simple truth is the people of Australia are weak and easily compliant. They are nothing like their ancestors who were anything but that. But hey, a couple hundred years of weakness is all it takes.
Americans will never be that weak. Ever. Whether out of hubris, overconfidence, whatever... it's instilled into us at birth that somehow we are special, stronger and better than the rest of the world. And it works. Because, well, we are. Individually, maybe not, but as a whole? There's no country that is even close to what we can accomplish.
And this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Now the question: Is it based in free will or ignorance?
(12-10-2021, 12:16 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 12:08 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]And this is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Now the question: Is it based in free will or ignorance?
I dunno man, sometimes I'm convinced it's willful ignorance.
(12-10-2021, 12:22 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 12:16 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Now the question: Is it based in free will or ignorance?
I dunno man, sometimes I'm convinced it's willful ignorance.
And pointless stubbornness.
(12-10-2021, 10:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 12:57 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to compare Australia to the US is apples to oranges. How about California to Florida?
Sure, over what time period and by what measures? And what are the specific differences between Florida and California that we want to examine that are substantially different from the USA to AUS comparison?
No need to dive deep. Cali is oppressive, Fla is wide open. What are the infection rates per capita?
Well being a weak"aussie" probably contributed to the reason why i supported a weak nfl team....
(12-10-2021, 12:52 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-10-2021, 10:40 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, over what time period and by what measures? And what are the specific differences between Florida and California that we want to examine that are substantially different from the USA to AUS comparison?
No need to dive deep. Cali is oppressive, Fla is wide open. What are the infection rates per capita?
Though I hardly consider any US state to be an example of "oppressive" in form of the Australian actions, the numbers favor Cali:
FL - 175k per million
CA - 127k per million
(12-12-2021, 09:23 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-12-2021, 12:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a bit of help...you're in the wrong thread.
Proceed.
20 to 50 percent depending on the intervention and geography.
(12-12-2021, 09:23 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (12-12-2021, 12:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Here's a bit of help...you're in the wrong thread.
Proceed.
Good lord dude.
Maybe you should take a break. You guys are just running in circles.